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separation after 9 years of marriage

metalwater

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on this one, i disagree with you.
interesting how the father (you) is more interested in the kids than the mother. do take care of them, but do not lie to them about your situation with your soon-to-be x. the need to learn how it should be, not have an example of a normal broken home. can not show them a good example with her, because she does not want it for you or them. she wants to feel desired, by someone else.

if you're lucky you will get 100 years of life. you can not get back even one second, ever.

the proof is that if she wanted to actively work on things with you, and stay, and try in the counseling, and respect you, then you would probably invest every ounce of energy you could to make it work. SHE DOES NOT WANT IT, she wants attention from someoneELSE.

do the red pill improvement plan. it can't hurt and no matter what will help you in many ways.

if you are a good man, your kids later in life will copy what they remember you did.
 
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BadBoy89

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my wife and I are going through trial separation.

I'll start sleeping around and so will she (we both are attractive and have charismatic personalities) and our previously powerful love (that still gets manifested by our very spiritual sex life) will slowly dissolve.
If she has absolutely no problem with a trail separation, no problem moving a new community, no problem sleeping with 6’1 alphas males, why are so concerned your love will dissolve?

She is the one who should care about your love, about you sleeping with 20 year olds, not the other way around.

Come on men.
 

Loki.7

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interesting how the father (you) is more interested in the kids than the mother. do take care of them, but do not lie to them about your situation with your soon-to-be x. the need to learn how it should be, not have an example of a normal broken home. can not show them a good example with her, because she does not want it for you or them. she wants to feel desired, by someone else.

if you're lucky you will get 100 years of life. you can not get back even one second, ever.

the proof is that if she wanted to actively work on things with you, and stay, and try in the counseling, and respect you, then you would probably invest every ounce of energy you could to make it work. SHE DOES NOT WANT IT, she wants attention from someoneELSE.

do the red pill improvement plan. it can't hurt and no matter what will help you in many ways.

if you are a good man, your kids later in life will copy what they remember you did.
What's the red pill improvement plan?
 

Glassguy

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on this one, i disagree with you.
Agree to disagree. But your kids don't have anything to do with it. At the end of the day they are still your kids. At the end of the day, I think this works out bad for you because you are allowing her to call all the shots.

Separation- her idea
Counseling- probably your idea

You're wasting valuable time that you'll never get back.
 

ThisIsSparta

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What's the red pill improvement plan?
Become the best version of yourself, thats the plan.

@fenix2021
Listen to Glassguy, he is one of the smartest around here.

You have to detach yourself emotionally from that woman. From what i read in your texting you are still way to much in her world, trying to be captain save a hoe.

I get it that your kids are in this with her. BUT..... SHE decided to move out, SHE decided to seperate you from your kids, SHE decided to move to the place she grew up instead of being closer to you. SHE pulled the trigger on that at least, but it seems you didnt hear the shot.

Everything she does is about her and not for the best of the kids. Dude, she took your kids away from you! There is no excuse and no future with a woman like that. It is not your responsibility to make up for your wifes behavior to your kids and neither should you!

From this point on you have to withdraw your attention from her. Unless it is about your kids, stop talking to her.
Focus on setting yourself up for the rest of your life and take care of your kids as far as she lets you. How much your kids see you will be on her consience, on HERS ALONE and she will have to answer to the kids about it when they grow up!

Stop the counceling sessions, this just drains your time and energy. She will be a leech on you until she is set up to drop you for real and by that point she will also have cheated on you.

Shes done and so should you.
 

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fenix2021

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I visited my new apartment while moving some of her garbage from my office (more a way get rid of her crap asap without being an ******* rather than as helpful hand). Needless to say the place is nowhere close to the idyllic heaven she described it as. The place is barely bigger than our current place, doesn't have backyard (yes, i'm one of the lucky NYC residents to have elusive access of backyard), the kitchen is dark and tiny (totally against her dreams) and so on. Clearly she's seeing the place through very rosy glasses. Which leads me to a different discussion that maybe we can have about the prism we use to understand the world.

Zizek talks about it in context of "They Live":
But i'm wondering if we can extend this conversation to relationships. How does one starts seeing the other or reality through a heavily distorted prism. Any good readings on this topic?
 

oldmanofthesea

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Clearly she's seeing the place through very rosy glasses.
The glasses she is seeing the apartment through is that it provides her with the freedom and privacy to bang any guy she wants any time she wants and she is likely either already doing it or has guys lined up in her orbit she will soon be doing it with. She doesn't give a F about the back yard when she is getting railed by 3 new guys a week.

I totally agree with the others who have made the point that the separation was her decision and you aren't saving your kids from anything by going your own way. Do you really think your kids are going to hold a grudge against you for not going to counseling after your wife made the unilateral decision to end the marriage and break up the family? This is on her, not you. And this has nothing to do with bravado or being macho.
 
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KindredSpiritzz

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all i can say is be patient. A year from now things will look and feel totally different and far less depressing. Biggest thing is to get out, be active, meet new people and embrace your new singleness. Have fun, do what YOU want, thats the greatest benefit to being single, the freedom to choose what you're going to fill your day with. I rather enjoy that freedom. Ebb and flow, life changes quickly and you just got to ride the current instead of fighting it. You'll be ok and you'll come out of the water stronger
 

fenix2021

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interesting how the father (you) is more interested in the kids than the mother. do take care of them, but do not lie to them about your situation with your soon-to-be x. the need to learn how it should be, not have an example of a normal broken home. can not show them a good example with her, because she does not want it for you or them. she wants to feel desired, by someone else.

if you're lucky you will get 100 years of life. you can not get back even one second, ever.

the proof is that if she wanted to actively work on things with you, and stay, and try in the counseling, and respect you, then you would probably invest every ounce of energy you could to make it work. SHE DOES NOT WANT IT, she wants attention from someoneELSE.

do the red pill improvement plan. it can't hurt and no matter what will help you in many ways.

if you are a good man, your kids later in life will copy what they remember you did.
I genuinely believe that she's incapable to see the reality for what it is, that by following intuition, she's hurting the children. Though it doesn't change the fact that no matter how she perceives it, the reality is that children WILL be hurt by her actions. Period.
 

fenix2021

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Become the best version of yourself, thats the plan.

@fenix2021
Listen to Glassguy, he is one of the smartest around here.

You have to detach yourself emotionally from that woman. From what i read in your texting you are still way to much in her world, trying to be captain save a hoe.

I get it that your kids are in this with her. BUT..... SHE decided to move out, SHE decided to seperate you from your kids, SHE decided to move to the place she grew up instead of being closer to you. SHE pulled the trigger on that at least, but it seems you didnt hear the shot.

Everything she does is about her and not for the best of the kids. Dude, she took your kids away from you! There is no excuse and no future with a woman like that. It is not your responsibility to make up for your wifes behavior to your kids and neither should you!

From this point on you have to withdraw your attention from her. Unless it is about your kids, stop talking to her.
Focus on setting yourself up for the rest of your life and take care of your kids as far as she lets you. How much your kids see you will be on her consience, on HERS ALONE and she will have to answer to the kids about it when they grow up!

Stop the counceling sessions, this just drains your time and energy. She will be a leech on you until she is set up to drop you for real and by that point she will also have cheated on you.

Shes done and so should you.
Definitely, her attitude towards the kids - blindly following her intuition believing she's doing what the best for them, is a huge RED flag that tells me i shall never full trust this woman.
 

Glassguy

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Become the best version of yourself, thats the plan.

@fenix2021
Listen to Glassguy, he is one of the smartest around here.

You have to detach yourself emotionally from that woman. From what i read in your texting you are still way to much in her world, trying to be captain save a hoe.

I get it that your kids are in this with her. BUT..... SHE decided to move out, SHE decided to seperate you from your kids, SHE decided to move to the place she grew up instead of being closer to you. SHE pulled the trigger on that at least, but it seems you didnt hear the shot.

Everything she does is about her and not for the best of the kids. Dude, she took your kids away from you! There is no excuse and no future with a woman like that. It is not your responsibility to make up for your wifes behavior to your kids and neither should you!

From this point on you have to withdraw your attention from her. Unless it is about your kids, stop talking to her.
Focus on setting yourself up for the rest of your life and take care of your kids as far as she lets you. How much your kids see you will be on her consience, on HERS ALONE and she will have to answer to the kids about it when they grow up!

Stop the counceling sessions, this just drains your time and energy. She will be a leech on you until she is set up to drop you for real and by that point she will also have cheated on you.

Shes done and so should you.
Totally agree. Well said.

OP will either man up or be a door mat. That's up to him.

I totally get that these situations are already tough enough, but OP you have to listen when we tell you it will be tougher if you stay attached in any way to this woman.

I would also highly suggest that you do not have anymore phone conversations with her and ONLY have conversations about your kids through text. There is no other reason to talk about anything. Actions > Words.
 

metalwater

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I genuinely believe that she's incapable to see the reality for what it is, that by following intuition, she's hurting the children. Though it doesn't change the fact that no matter how she perceives it, the reality is that children WILL be hurt by her actions. Period.
Women follow the feelings. Inside of her is a war going on, in her mind. She does not know it, but feels it. You can not reach her, I am sure you tried.. we all did at one time or another with some woman.

On the other side, most if not all... men will fck a woman that is not ugly if she will let them. Some have more practice than others and some will have strong codes and not do it with a woman that he KNOWS is taken. Women don't always tell other men that they are taken. When she is messed up in the head and emotions and hormones flowing she can be taken advantage of by almost any man that can see it, and that she finds interesting. She will find many other men interesting because she does not know them and her imagination tells her that they are fun, even more, if she sees them as attractive. Nothing you can do about it. Do the red pill improvements and any others that occur to you so that you can not have this same situation in the future.

Your children will need you, be the strongest man you can. At some point, while your making improvements it will occur to you how many sweet girls are available and that you don't want that traitor at all. It happens to almost every man that goes through this. Get started now, so that you can enjoy the peace and satisfaction later of living as you should.

Don't hate women, just learn how they work. It's like when you have a talented employee, competitors will try to hire that one if they can. As a successful businessman you have to be aware of that and continue to keep that employee in your team and at the same time get good value from the setup. Red pill and SS will provide how to do it.
 

ubercat

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Mate stop excusing her crappy manipulative behaviour. Start hiding money. Start talking to a lawyer. Find a junk yard dog lawyer from the wrong side of the tracks not a polite upper crust one who will be brown nosing the Judge.

Search monkey branch on this site. You ll find the sad tales of 00s of guys who thought their special princess wasn't like that.
 

fenix2021

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Your advice is invaluable but many of you concentrate too much on whether she has someone else or if she will soon enough.

So let me make it clear: I KNOW she will sleep with someone soon enough just as i KNOW i will too. I accepted that almost the moment we made the decision about separation. Again, to recap, she pulled the trigger to get a new space and i happily agreed but instead of getting an apartment in the neighborhood as we agreed upon, she made the decision to go to her home town.

The sex with others is not the issue here. What is for me is how a profound love (and yes, maybe my definition is laughable and naive) can dissipate. I just couldn't understand it until today.

This was the day of her move out. In the morning relaxing in the backyard (which she won't have in the new space...) we talked about a friend couple who's in similar situation. Married for 8 years, 2 kids, but unlike us they haven't had sex in 6 months. She's more like me, and in that relationship he's more like my wife. I spoke of profound resentment they had for one another and my wife picked up that in essence i'm describing our relationship using the other's as a proxy. This made her loose her cool very soon because she doesn't want to admit to herself the resentment she has for me, preferring to soap up her eyes with phrases of "great love and respect." Soon it turned into a big argument but unlike in the past where i kept my cool, this time i let it all out. I spoke of her disrespect, lack of appreciation of anything, her rosy-colored prism that describes her new otherwise ****ty apartment in prerogatives, her venomous prism that she uses to see me through, her abandonment of kids and how that her heart fells otherwise doesn't change the reality on the ground, how she must be insane that at 42 with wrinkles and gray hair she thinks she can find a man that's even half of who i am. She didn't want to listen but it's my house now, and because she needed to get the hell out from it by the end of the day, she didn't have the choice. I presume, much of what i sad went over her head but at least i said what needed to be said.

And then something happened that answered my original question of love. I looked at her and saw that for the first time in 12 years i don't find her attractive anymore. Now this must be put in perspective. For the past 12 years, if i walked into a crowded space there was a beam of light that lit her up - she was the one in the room. Maybe there were a few dim beams that would light up some other hot girls but those other beams meant nothing in comparison. And now i was in the same room and the beam lighting her up went out.

Then i thought, what if the same is true in reverse? To her i'm lit up by one of many dim beams - replaceable and irrelevant just as she became to me.
 
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metalwater

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Your advice is invaluable but many of you concentrate too much on whether she has someone else or if she will soon enough.

So let me make it clear: I KNOW she will sleep with someone soon enough just as i KNOW i will too. I accepted that almost the moment we made the decision about separation. Again, to recap, she pulled the trigger to get a new space and i happily agreed but instead of getting an apartment in the neighborhood as we agreed upon, she made the decision to go to her home town.

The sex with others is not the issue here. What is for me is how a profound love (and yes, maybe my definition is laughable and naive) can dissipate. I just couldn't understand it until today.

This was the day of her move out. In the morning relaxing in the backyard (which she won't have in the new space...) we talked about a friend couple who's in similar situation. Married for 8 years, 2 kids, but unlike us they haven't had sex in 6 months. She's more like me, and in that relationship he's more like my wife. I spoke of profound resentment they had for one another and my wife picked up that in essence i'm describing our relationship using the other's as a proxy. This made her loose her cool very soon because she doesn't want to admit to herself the resentment she has for me, preferring to soap up her eyes with phrases of "great love and respect." Soon it turned into a big argument but unlike in the past where i kept my cool, this time i let it all out. I spoke of her disrespect, lack of appreciation of anything, her rosy-colored prism that describes her new otherwise ****ty apartment in prerogatives, her venomous prism that she uses to see me through, her abandonment of kids and how that her heart fells otherwise doesn't change the reality on the ground, how she must be insane that at 42 with wrinkles and gray hair she thinks she can find a man that's even half of who i am. She didn't want to listen but it's my house now, and because she needed to get the hell out from it by the end of the day, she didn't have the choice. I presume, much of what i sad went over her head but at least i said what needed to be said.

And then something happened that answered my original question of love. I looked at her and saw that for the first time in 12 years i don't find her attractive anymore. Now this must be put in perspective. For the past 12 years, if i walked into a crowded space there was a beam of light that lit her up - she was the one in the room. Maybe there were a few dim beams that would light up some other hot girls but those other beams meant nothing in comparison. And now i was in the same room and the beam lighting her up went out.

Then i thought, what if the same is true in reverse? To her i'm lit up by one of many dim beams - replaceable and irrelevant just as she became to me.
I get exactly what you write. Man and woman, it is a sexual relationship. That is a big part of it, more than what you suggest. There is a bunch of biology inside of this. Geek stuff about how the body and mind works, it's real. Sex is needed to keep the romantic relationship alive. You can have a friendship without sex, but not a romantic relationship. If you want to understand why it is because of that.

Women can not love men like men can love women. Sorry, it is just a fact. It is not that women are evil, they are simply different. From very high respect and admiration, they will give themself to you fully and that it is love. Simply put, they need to admire and respect you more than other men. If you have slipped in your self-value (very common and normal) or she has encountered another that she respects more and or admires more then the light goes out for you. Wise women control themself and do not put themself into positions to find competitors for their men, while some women allow it. Some men also will try to control the environment, in some cases that works and he will continue to be the best man in her view. This is how it works for women, men process it differently and expect that women will think about these things the same as they do. Does not work that way. This is why to focus on the other man thing, as this is always at the core of such things. It just is, later you will find out when she quickly has a new man in her life.

The beam of light is the Disney dream and is so very beautiful, if only it can be true.

Read the red pill books, all of them, if not already read up on premenopause, it usually starts taking effect slowly and builds up power over time. Sir, you simply must read all of the red pill books to understand. Women run on emotions (completely), she wants to feel something or something different and is taking action to do so. She does not love you as you love her, the meaning of love is different and the cause of it is different between men and women. You try to understand how she could lose the feeling that YOU have, but she never had those because she can not. It is pretty well explained by the red pill reading how biology and psychology works. You will not like it, but to find peace you need to learn or just accept what others are telling you and follow the advice.
 

fenix2021

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I get exactly what you write. Man and woman, it is a sexual relationship. That is a big part of it, more than what you suggest. There is a bunch of biology inside of this. Geek stuff about how the body and mind works, it's real. Sex is needed to keep the romantic relationship alive. You can have a friendship without sex, but not a romantic relationship. If you want to understand why it is because of that.

Women can not love men like men can love women. Sorry, it is just a fact. It is not that women are evil, they are simply different. From very high respect and admiration, they will give themself to you fully and that it is love. Simply put, they need to admire and respect you more than other men. If you have slipped in your self-value (very common and normal) or she has encountered another that she respects more and or admires more then the light goes out for you. Wise women control themself and do not put themself into positions to find competitors for their men, while some women allow it. Some men also will try to control the environment, in some cases that works and he will continue to be the best man in her view. This is how it works for women, men process it differently and expect that women will think about these things the same as they do. Does not work that way. This is why to focus on the other man thing, as this is always at the core of such things. It just is, later you will find out when she quickly has a new man in her life.

The beam of light is the Disney dream and is so very beautiful, if only it can be true.

Read the red pill books, all of them, if not already read up on premenopause, it usually starts taking effect slowly and builds up power over time. Sir, you simply must read all of the red pill books to understand. Women run on emotions (completely), she wants to feel something or something different and is taking action to do so. She does not love you as you love her, the meaning of love is different and the cause of it is different between men and women. You try to understand how she could lose the feeling that YOU have, but she never had those because she can not. It is pretty well explained by the red pill reading how biology and psychology works. You will not like it, but to find peace you need to learn or just accept what others are telling you and follow the advice.
Admiration and respect on her part was definitely long gone.
Now i'm happy my attraction to her is gone too to even out the field.

I'm lighting designer/ dir. of photography on commercials and TV shows so like i'm partially responsible for creating that "Disney dream" in the public eye!
 

ubercat

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You can't understand it. So you never did search on monkey branch. Or read the DJ Bible. Of course the guys are focusing on protect your heart and cash first that s red pill 101 when in your situation for many good reasons. How many times do you think we have seen this play out before?

Do yourself a favour buy a copy of the ebook practical female psychology for the practical man and read it at least 3 times. You will violently disagree with it the first time through read it again anyway. You've been conditions to a certain world view for many years is going to take a fair bit of re processing time. We've all been through it it's not a trivial process
 

Lookatu

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Women can not love men like men can love women.
AKA - Men love idealistically. Women love opportunistically.

For the newbs reading this thread, always remember this. The only situation this isn't valid is when it comes to her children.
 
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