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SARMs are tremendous...highly recommend

marmel75

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I don't think I will ever be able to get myself to run a PH/steroid cycle due to the potential for life altering sides, including death, but SARMs are an excellent alternative that give steroid like benefits with very few sides involved...

SARMs were initially developed to aid in the prevention of cachexia in cancer patients(wasting away), which is actually one of the main killers for cancer, and not necessarily the cancer itself. They work by selectively binding to androgen receptors in muscle and bone without binding to these receptors in the prostate, liver, heart, etc that can cause the problems from steroids. You also do not have to run any kind of PCT with them other than with LGD4033, which DOES cause some shutdown, although nowhere close to as bad as a steroid would, or can run a mini-PCT.

Clinical studies back their results. Ostarine, a second generation SARM, also known as Enbosarm or MK-2886, has been shown at a dosage of 3 ml/day to add 3 lbs of lean body mass over a 12 week period to men who did NO weight training. However, dosages range from 17.5-25 ml/day for those using it for weight training purposes and can expect a gain of between 8-10 lbs of quality, easily maintainable lean mass. It also does very little in the way of shutting down Testosterone production, which is why you want to take an AI after a few weeks with it since all the T will be getting aromatized into estrogen since the T receptor sites will be flooded by Ostarine. It also increases the body's utilization of fat and increases insulin sensitivity by 17%, making it a great compliment for those cutting, where you can gain size and also lose bodyfat at the same time, even in a caloric deficit(normally not possible because the body significantly lowers T levels in response to lack of food)

LGD4033 is a new, powerful SARM that has been released by Ligand that is 12 times more anabolic than Ostarine. Clinical studies show the same 3 lb lean body weight increase can be gotten from LGD in 3 weeks as opposed to 12 weeks with Ostarine, and at a dosage of 1 ml/day. For weight trainers, the ideal dosage is between 5-10 ml/day and at this dosage you will likely add between 10-15 lbs of lean body mass within 8 weeks. However, LGD DOES has some sides since this is an extremely powerful SARM, but they are still far less than a steroid. It will tank your T levels and your SHBG levels, but it has no effect on FSH or LH like a steroid would, meaning it is much easier to recover your T levels than it would be for a steroid. Many people bridge with Ostarine for 4 weeks while recovering their T levels. LGD also decreases your HDL cholesterol(bad) but also decreases your Triglycerides(likely because fat is being used as energy), so the net effect is negligible as Triglyceride level has been shown to be as important if not more important for heart related issues than HDL/LDL levels...

S-4 or Andarine was one of the first SARMs created and does have a negative effect of causing some vision sides(which I haven't gotten yet), mainly being yellow vision or slightly darkened vision(like you are wearing sunglasses all the time) since it affects the M1 receptors in your eyes. However, this only lasts while on S-4 for those that experience it. It is highly effective as a stacker and cutter along with Ostarine and increase muscle hardness and fat loss. Also along with Ostarine, S-4 is fantastic when it comes to healing injuries, even nagging injuries, potentially due to their strengthening effect on tendons/ligaments and bones, resulting in much quicker repair of these sites than would otherwise be possible...Ostarine and S-4 also greatly enhance vascularity as well(veins look like they are going to explode out of you after about 4 or 5 weeks). S-4 only has a half life of 4-6 hours, so its very effective in split doses, 12 hours apart, 25 ml/ twice a day for a total of 50ml, although some take it in doses up to 100ml a day(2 50ml doses)


GW501516, also known as Cardarine, while technically not a SARM, is tremendous for those looking to use body fat and while on a cut. It is a PPAR-Gamma agonist that changes preferential gene expression to burn fat for energy and away from using carbs for energy. Thereby forcing carbs into the muscle as glycogen and using fat stores as energy. Results are seen with as little as 5ml/day, although for best results split doses of 10ml twice a day are recommended as its half life while said to be 24 hours appears to be less in real world tests, so 20ml a day divided in split doses of 10ml each is recommended.

I am currently running what is known as a "Triple Stack" which involves taking split doses of S-4 and GW501516 twice a day(25 ml of S-4 and 10ml of GW twice daily 12 hours apart) along with a 25ml dose of Ostarine with the first dose, as Ostarine has a half life of 24 hours. Its working tremendously, and I highly recommend anyone looking to drop serious bodyfat while gaining muscle and changing your appearance(deepens your chest, changes your midsection appearance, etc)...if you are on the wrong side of 30, like I am, this will be hugely effective with very little risk.

You can read general info about SARMS here:
http://www.evolutionary.org/SARMS

You can read about Ostarine(MK-2866/Enbosarm) here:
http://www.evolutionary.org/ostarine-mk-2866

You can read about LGD-4033 here:
http://www.evolutionary.org/lgd-4033

You can read about Andarine(S-4) here:
http://www.evolutionary.org/andarine-s-4

You can read about Cardarine(GW501516) here:
http://www.evolutionary.org/gw-501516

You can read about the SARMS Triple Stack Protocol which involves stacking Ostarine, S-4, and GW501516 for tremendous cutting results here:
http://www.evolutionary.org/the-SARMS-triple-stack-protocol


Dylan Gemelli is a certified trainer and very highly regarded in his knowledge and usage of SARMs along with his clients. He posts regularly on the elitefitness.com forums and has a thread that would be worth reading in the anabolic steroid section entitled "All of your questions about SARMs answered here". These above referenced posts are also written by Dylan Gemelli on his site, but you can read a lot of Q and A stuff on the forums regarding SARMs that might not be covered in these...

Highly recommend, exceptional results, closest thing you can get to steroid like results without taking PH/steroids...
 

Who Dares Win

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What do you reccomend for someone interested mostly in avoiding sides?

I run epistane for 6 weeks and got satisfactory results but decided to leave it due to receiding hair line which is a pain in the ass with any ph if you are sensitive.

What about ostarine, are there potential for hair loss? what is protocol for someone which just need some boost but is more concerned about avoiding sides rather than packing muscle fast?
 

marmel75

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Who Dares Win said:
What do you reccomend for someone interested mostly in avoiding sides?

I run epistane for 6 weeks and got satisfactory results but decided to leave it due to receiding hair line which is a pain in the ass with any ph if you are sensitive.

What about ostarine, are there potential for hair loss? what is protocol for someone which just need some boost but is more concerned about avoiding sides rather than packing muscle fast?
No hair loss concerns with ostarine...

Starting out I would run just a straight 8 week Ostarine cycle at 25ml a day, with something like Formeron to prevent any gyno issues...I got great results from that...

Literally zero sides I had on that one
 

Who Dares Win

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marmel75 said:
No hair loss concerns with ostarine...

Starting out I would run just a straight 8 week Ostarine cycle at 25ml a day, with something like Formeron to prevent any gyno issues...I got great results from that...

Literally zero sides I had on that one
Formeron is awesome but I have to pay particular attention since even at 1 drop a day on me it crush my estrogens and good bye libido plus joints aching.
It makes me cold blooded and bold but at some point antisocial and uninterested in girls sexually but only as a trophy, but the effect on face is great, you really look more tight and sharp.

Anyway Im too much of an adventurer for not giving a try to ostarine, in which phase the AI should be run, during the whole use of ostarine or in the final part and "post use" untill the androgen receptors will again capture test and avoid aromatase to turn it into estro?
 

marmel75

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Who Dares Win said:
Formeron is awesome but I have to pay particular attention since even at 1 drop a day on me it crush my estrogens and good bye libido plus joints aching.
It makes me cold blooded and bold but at some point antisocial and uninterested in girls sexually but only as a trophy, but the effect on face is great, you really look more tight and sharp.

Anyway Im too much of an adventurer for not giving a try to ostarine, in which phase the AI should be run, during the whole use of ostarine or in the final part and "post use" untill the androgen receptors will again capture test and avoid aromatase to turn it into estro?
You can run Ostarine for 2-3 weeks before you need an AI...it really depends, you may not need it at all, but since it doesn't shut you down, most test you produce will be getting converted to E, but it all depends on how active your aromatase enzymes are...differs for everyone...

I'd probably run it for a couple weeks after as well, just to make sure your levels are back to normal...
 

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Purefilth

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WDW - look up turinabol if you're worried about sides. It's a steroid, but has no sides at all apparently.
 

Who Dares Win

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marmel75 said:
You can run Ostarine for 2-3 weeks before you need an AI...it really depends, you may not need it at all, but since it doesn't shut you down, most test you produce will be getting converted to E, but it all depends on how active your aromatase enzymes are...differs for everyone...

I'd probably run it for a couple weeks after as well, just to make sure your levels are back to normal...
All clear thanks, Im finishing a phase now and collect further info then very likely will try out in early march, already have formeron.
I read it doesnt take any SERM for pct, what is suggested an AI and a test booster?



Purefilth said:
WDW - look up turinabol if you're worried about sides. It's a steroid, but has no sides at all apparently.
I will surely try to collect infos about it, but the brief ones I got now mostly talk about its use to kickstart or close cycles of other steroids.

Plus I dont have any place to buy it, dont even know if half of stuff they have in the us are legal in Europe, I usually have to buy from british shops since the rest of Europe doesnt work in this department.

I suppose it requires a pct? Did you try it?
 

Purefilth

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I will try it - I would do pct for anything to be honest, you need to keep yourself protected while you get your hormones back in check.

Ive read of people using it as an oral only cycle, getting some size and strength gains off it. "its the shiit" is the most common phrase I hear associated with it :D.

You can get it in Britain - also plenty is shipped from turkey just check what lab it comes from, and research that, to make sure its legit.
 

Mauser96

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Do you guys ever worry about the long -term effects of all this crap?

I am being dead serious here.

If you are 30, on BB drugs, and at age 50 found out you had cancer or something else that was fatal, and it could be traced back to the BB drugs, would you have regrets??

I am not trying to stir the pot - I lift myself. But how much muscle is enough?
 

marmel75

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Mauser96 said:
Do you guys ever worry about the long -term effects of all this crap?

I am being dead serious here.

If you are 30, on BB drugs, and at age 50 found out you had cancer or something else that was fatal, and it could be traced back to the BB drugs, would you have regrets??

I am not trying to stir the pot - I lift myself. But how much muscle is enough?
No because there are plenty of things that we breath, eat and drink every day that are going to cause an array of health issues over time, the FDA will make sure of that...gotta keep big Pharma happy...

SARMs have never shown to have any serious adverse side effects and Ostarine has literally shown to have virtually no sides...

And that stuff about GW causing cancer? Been debunked with follow up studies after they learned that it caused cancer when rats were given the equivalent of 4,000 times the human dosage for much longer periods of time(a year+), which means there are probably hundreds if not thousands of other things at a lower dosage that would cause cancer as well...i mean you could kill yourself by eating too much sodium by disrupting the sodium/potassium pump that causes our heart to beat...should we now ban table salt?

In fact a new SARM being tested in Japan is not only extremely potent, but is also a myostatin inhibitor as well...can't wait til that one hits the market...

And as to how much is enough? SARMs aren't going to make you look like you are on steroids, but they will definitely give you much greater gains than what you could get naturally...

I ran an 8wk Ostarine cycle last year starting in May and gained 8.8 lbs of lean body mass while going from 13.5% BF to 10.5%...that would have taken well over a year naturally if not longer
 

marmel75

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Purefilth said:
WDW - look up turinabol if you're worried about sides. It's a steroid, but has no sides at all apparently.
Its a fairly weak one, and its methlyated, meaning its liver toxic...and likely won't produce any better results than Ostarine, IF that...

From the Elite Fitness boards, I posed that question and they said in the long run a Triple Stack of SARMs would likely produce better results...

You also usually don't run orals by themselves, unless you want "deca d!ck"...almost always run test as a base to prevent huge libido/erection issues...

Just my two cents, but give it a try and let me know how it works out...

From what they said Anavar would be a similarly low risk steroid but would produce much better results, however finding real Anavar is very tough, its usually watered down Winstrol, and if it is real Anavar its extremely expensive...
 

Purefilth

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marmel75 said:
Its a fairly weak one, and its methlyated, meaning its liver toxic...and likely won't produce any better results than Ostarine, IF that...

From the Elite Fitness boards, I posed that question and they said in the long run a Triple Stack of SARMs would likely produce better results...

You also usually don't run orals by themselves, unless you want "deca d!ck"...almost always run test as a base to prevent huge libido/erection issues...

Just my two cents, but give it a try and let me know how it works out...

From what they said Anavar would be a similarly low risk steroid but would produce much better results, however finding real Anavar is very tough, its usually watered down Winstrol, and if it is real Anavar its extremely expensive...
True, its weaker - its anabolic value is Half that of dianabol for example. It is a LOT less liver toxic than other orals.

Real Anvar is readily available to me at a very similar price to the turinabol - yes real anvar from a well known and trusted lab.

I ran a D-bol only cycle - only 4 weeks but I didn't get deca d1ck, a little lethargic for a week or so, but other than that my libido was regular - higher for the first couple of weeks in fact.

I will concede that running orals with no test base for an extended period would probably shut you down hard. But Turinabol and Anvar don't seem to give that problem to people at all.

just my 0.02c on orals :D
 

Espi

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Mauser96 said:
Do you guys ever worry about the long -term effects of all this crap?

I am being dead serious here.

If you are 30, on BB drugs, and at age 50 found out you had cancer or something else that was fatal, and it could be traced back to the BB drugs, would you have regrets??

I am not trying to stir the pot - I lift myself. But how much muscle is enough?
I really don't.

I've used steroids several times and have nothing bad to say about them.

I invite you to watch this video; it'll perhaps make you think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWgaRDrmWMM
 

marmel75

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Espi said:
I really don't.

I've used steroids several times and have nothing bad to say about them.

I invite you to watch this video; it'll perhaps make you think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWgaRDrmWMM
Many of the sides can be mitigated or almost completely avoided by taking TUDCA, especially liver and Cholesterol related sides...

Looking at these sides versus all the other prescription drugs and how many people are killed every year, even from something as simple as asprin, for those about 1/3 of all males that are aspirin resistant where aspirin actually CAUSES blood clots instead of preventing them, I would have to agree that many prescription drugs that are commonly used are much more dangerous...
 

foreverAFC

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i think ill just do a bunch of jiu jitsu instead
 

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Purefilth said:
WDW - look up turinabol if you're worried about sides. It's a steroid, but has no sides at all apparently.
Hey where can I still get turnibol, I've cycled superdol the strong one, and halodrol. I got them from the competitive edge labs company.

I had great results, except a little rage, my nuts shriveled a bit, but I did a proper pct.

I went from 170 to 190.

I kept all the muscle for a long time, untill I stopped lifting seriously. My spelling is kind of shivtty right now, had a long day.

So any advice? I am only 25, and have been athletic my whole life.

Maybe I don't need any of this now, thoughts?
 

foreverAFC

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noobolgy said:
So any advice? I am only 25, and have been athletic my whole life.
my advice would be to stay away from garbage like superdrol, you probably dont even realize how ridiculous you look on that **** when you are temporarily ballooned up on that crap, not to mention the toxicity of that garbage

eat regular foods, and if you want to take things to the next level start doing a martial art like muay thai or jiu jitsu
 

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im all for SARMs. Superdrol..... garbage do you know what youre talking about? That has to be one of the strongest active oral compounds. The people who lose everything after they cycle are the idiots who dont know how to diet in the first place and have no business taking anything.

if you dont want any sides there are Non Methyl hormones. The 17aa methyl added to these sterol compounds is what makes them stronger and more bioaviliable however with that comes the increased sides. With non methyl steroids, they are DHEA derivatives and are not as strong as methyl compounds but they work if your diet does.
 

marmel75

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foreverAFC said:
my advice would be to stay away from garbage like superdrol, you probably dont even realize how ridiculous you look on that **** when you are temporarily ballooned up on that crap, not to mention the toxicity of that garbage

eat regular foods, and if you want to take things to the next level start doing a martial art like muay thai or jiu jitsu
I'm not into the harder oral methylated compounds as I'd just pin if I needed something hard like that to avoid liver sides...

But jujitsu and muay Thai? Cmon dude, we are talking about gaining mass and size here bro, not looking like Gumby...
 

Who Dares Win

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I'll be giving a try to ostarine, wonder if 10mg daily at morning will be enough to have light benefits while avoiding sides.

I will run up to 8 weeks if there wont be any reason to stop, also I'll have 10days break from the gym in late feb and will find out if it really healps to avoid decrease in shape in case training is stopped.
 
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