Rotator cuff

[panosha]

I was in class last week and I heard this guy say he tore his rotator cuff and dropped from 200lbs to 170lbs

what are some exercises I can do so it doesnt happen to me?

 

[stronglifts]

Do 1x Overhead Press session for every Bench Press session and 1 row session for every bench press session.

So if you bench press 6x/month, you should overhead press 6x a month & row 6x a month. This will keep your shoulder gridle balanced.

 

[Throttle]

also, never bring overhead presses behind your head, and likewise with lat pulldowns, if you do those. both of those come down to your chest, not your shoulder blades.

rotator cuff damage is generally progressive, so if you feel something getting worse in your shoulders (pain, not soreness), particularly as you add weight, figure out where it's located & what's causing it.

 

[stronglifts]

never bring overhead presses behind your head

If you have bad posture/lack of shoulder flexibility/etc, work on that first before doing behind neck presses.

 

[mrRuckus]

Don't flat bench

 

[int3l]

Don't flat bench

you serious?

 

[Warboss Alex]

you serious?

yes, the main rotator cuff killer is the flat bench press, the beach boy's favourite.

if you can bench like a powerlifter, do so.. otherwise avoid flat barbell bench.

 

[stronglifts]

you serious?

I don't bench. Did close grip bench press once this year. Overhead Press three times a week the rest of the time.

 

[mrRuckus]

I've started doing these exercises while watching tv or whatever the night after doing chest/shoulders:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotator_cuff

Mostly i've done it in an effort to help improve my bench (and stability of just holding the bar) after reading a Poliquin article and even if that doesn't help with lift numbers i don't care since it's still a good preventative measure. As far as i can tell i have pretty healthy rotator cuffs but as i continue to read the number of people who screw up their shoulders i think i'll get a head start on preventing it and it's something to do besides zoning out on the couch no matter how much I love me some House.

 

[stronglifts]

Training the rotator cuff is something from the past. All articles on t-nation advising you to train the rotator cuff should be deleted. If you contact the authors (i'm thinking at eric cressey, mike robertson, etc), they will tell you they do not agree anymore with training the rotator cuff.

Rotator cuff is where the pain is felt. The cause of the pain is not the rotator cuff. It's the scapula (shoulder blade). Training the rotator cuff is like having a flat tyre & keep pumping air instead of just fixing the hole.

So train the scapula if you want healthy shoulders.
*) keep a ratio bench press/oh press 1:1
*) rows, power cleans
*) overhead squats & snatches: will put your shoulderblades where they should be.

Overhead Squats is one of the best. If you have shoulder pain, quit the bench press, do 3x a week overhead squats for 3 weeks. You'll feel the difference.

This article has more info on training the scapula. Co-written by Bill Hartman, check his dvd "inside/out", has everything you need for healthy shoulders.

 

[panosha]

yes, the main rotator cuff killer is the flat bench press, the beach boy's favourite.

if you can bench like a powerlifter, do so.. otherwise avoid flat barbell bench.

Never realized that...guess I'll use flat dumbell presses now

I find it hard to stabilize the bar when Im doing Flat Bench...is this because of the rotator cuff?

thanks for the comments

 

[mrRuckus]

Training the rotator cuff is something from the past. All articles on t-nation advising you to train the rotator cuff should be deleted. If you contact the authors (i'm thinking at eric cressey, mike robertson, etc), they will tell you they do not agree anymore with training the rotator cuff.

Rotator cuff is where the pain is felt. The cause of the pain is not the rotator cuff. It's the scapula (shoulder blade). Training the rotator cuff is like having a flat tyre & keep pumping air instead of just fixing the hole.

Hmm, oh really?

I've been doing both. My main goal overall is posture improvement. I have that damn thing where my gut sticks out even at low bf% and my shoulders slump so i've started to do things that are supposed to improve those (even ordered that Egoscue book you mention on your page for like $3 from amazon).

I guess i have no idea if rotator cuff work is useful or not then. Yet another one of those things where this is no answer since everyone says something different. I was mostly going from this:

3. Weak scapulae retractors. Scapulae retraction, which involves pulling the shoulder blades back, is performed by such muscles as the rhomboids and trapezius. These muscles are often poorly developed because they are not the showy muscles that can readily be seen while standing in front of a mirror.

The scapulae retractors are often weak in swimmers, or rather, relatively weak in comparison to their pectoral and anterior deltoid muscles. The result of this structural imbalance is a slumping, forward head posture that causes shoulder impingement, which can impair a swimmer’s performance in their sport, especially at the higher levels of competition. Likewise, although gymnasts often have tremendously developed lats, weakness in the rhomboids and mid-trapezius causes them to often display rounded shoulders that would be more appropriate in a zombie movie than on a balance beam.

One of the most effective exercises for developing the scapulae retractors is the seated cable row. However, rather than using a pulley handle and pulling the weight to the waist, for working the scapulae retractors I like to use a rope and have the athlete pull the bar towards the throat, with elbows high. This exercise is illustrated in my book The German Body Comp Program.

4. Weak external rotators. The two most important muscles that are involved in externally rotating the shoulders are the teres minor and the infraspinatus. These muscles originate on the scapula and insert on the humerus, and are two of the four muscles collectively known as the rotator cuff.

Although these muscles are relatively small, they are important for stabilizing the shoulder and therefore keeping the athlete healthy. Adam Nelson, two-time Olympic silver medalist in the shot put, is an example of an elite athlete who neglected his rotator cuff development. One exercise he could not do because it caused so much pain was the power snatch. After several weeks of performing external rotator cuff work I prescribed, he power snatched 286 pounds for 3 reps. In fact, working these muscles also helped his pressing strength, because after six months of training he increased his incline bench press, using a 3-inch-thick bar, from 285 pounds to 525!

I notice that your t-nation article has the face pull exercise in there too.

 

[Throttle]

Wait, so flat bench press is bad for the rotator cuffs? What if you use dumbbells?

not better, and possibly worse, since you can bring the dumbbells down lower than your chest, depending on your form (i see a lot of guys get real sloppy trying to put up big dumbbells--now who's the dumbbell?).

investigate WBA's powerlifting-form flat bench press (shoulder blades back and together, back arched, etc.)

 

[Crazy Asian]

DUDE!
i have tendonitis in my rotator cuff ( i think i got it from swimming ).
but now i can't do push ups, pull ups, bench press, incline press, and basically anything that requires me to push my arms straight/up out.

IT SUCKS @SS.

But to prevent it: NEVER NEVER AND DID I SAY NEVER stretch your shoulder in any way. My coach was at the olympic trials training place and this guy said that stretching your shoulder is very bad and if your shoulder is sore/hurting, just squeeze it from the top down.

 

[Crazy Asian]

Do 1x Overhead Press session for every Bench Press session and 1 row session for every bench press session.

So if you bench press 6x/month, you should overhead press 6x a month & row 6x a month. This will keep your shoulder gridle balanced.

hey so if i already have rotator cuff tendonitis, can i still do incline press?

 

[stronglifts]

Hmm, oh really?

I've been doing both. My main goal overall is posture improvement. I have that damn thing where my gut sticks out even at low bf% and my shoulders slump so i've started to do things that are supposed to improve those (even ordered that Egoscue book you mention on your page for like $3 from amazon).

I guess i have no idea if rotator cuff work is useful or not then. Yet another one of those things where this is no answer since everyone says something different. I was mostly going from this:

I notice that your t-nation article has the face pull exercise in there too.

Egoscue is great, time consuming, but great. If you have postural problems (slouching shoulders), you really need to something about it. Most likely you'll get injured one day, especially if you train hard. If you wouldn't train, you'd get problems 20y from now for sure.

My advice is to train the scapula. If people would do more overhead presses/rows & not let their upperback round/shoulders hang, less rotator cuff problem. Note the overhead press was _the_ upperbody movement for years. There were never shoulder injuries (find an olympic weightlifter with shoulder injuries). Things changed once the bench press got popular.

Face pulls is scapular retraction, it trains the scapula not the rotator cuff. When you say rotator cuff I understand cuban presses etc.

Have you tried the Overhead Squat? If not: try it 3x a week at the end of your workout, build up the weight gradually. This will brutally stretch your upperbody (chest/shoulders) & strengthen your shoulder blades.

 

[stronglifts]

hey so if i already have rotator cuff tendonitis, can i still do incline press?

tendinitis = inflammation. Take care of your inflammation before loading that tendon again.

 

[mrRuckus]

how can you train a bone?

 

[panosha]

not better, and possibly worse, since you can bring the dumbbells down lower than your chest, depending on your form (i see a lot of guys get real sloppy trying to put up big dumbbells--now who's the dumbbell?).

investigate WBA's powerlifting-form flat bench press (shoulder blades back and together, back arched, etc.)

WBA, please explain what he is talking about