Rollo nailed female concept of loyalty with a brief line on twitter

[Spaz]

Same subject, but different context. We were talking about mate selection, in which the motivations are different.

Of course, a large part of what attracts a woman to her mate would also be a deterrent against cheating, except that the motivations aren't the same, which is why I said it's more sociological than anthropological...because a woman has no claim against the resources of a powerful man, in modern Western society, unless she can get him to marry her. In anthropological terms, an unfaithful woman might be abandoned, and no other man would want her...not as a honored wife, anyway. Anthropologically, an unfaithful wife would risk the security she sought when she wooed her mate.

In modern Western society, however, the cast aside woman still has a legal claim on the resources of the man who cast her aside, and she can even take his children, to hold for ransom, by law. These are recent developments, within the last hundred years or so.

When a modern woman cheats, she isn't necessarily looking for resources(her husband is likely to be rich and her lover poor) or children, but recreation and attention, just like men who cheat.

The feminine imperative is not only resources but also lifestyle that she desires or that's impressed upon her by other females.

And it changes according to her environment.

What the female herd does, she wants.

Where the female herd goes, she follows.

There is a reason why women cannot create anything.

They r not able to surpass their own biological imperative.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Science doesn't back up your assertion.

A new documentary chronicles the lives of triplets separated at birth in a controversial study — here's how scientists continue to use twins in research

A new documentary, "Three Identical Strangers," follows triplets involved in a secret experiment of nature versus nurture. Here's a look at the history of twin studies and why scientists are fascinated with them.

www.businessinsider.com

Now you know science has some falsification especially when It comes to studied to prove a point.

 

[Ohso-Phresh]

I have no faith in my ability to enlighten you. If it were possible, all the necessary specifics are contained within your own post.

You do the very thing you complain about.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Feminine imperative is not only resources but also lifestyle that she desires.

True that. Lifestyle she desires is exactly the reason she does what she does.

 

[Ohso-Phresh]

Now you know science has some falsification especially when It comes to studied to prove a point.

Sure, everyone has an opinion. Whether it's backed by evidence, experience or vague hunches is what separates truth from illusion.

 

[Kotaix]

Rollo is absolutely correct.

You can't ignore the reality that women are incapable of dealing with men physically when push comes to shove. Action movies with women kicking men's asses are fantasy. Women need protection.

If really hard times come, a woman will want to be with a man who can defend her from rapists and provide for her, and a weak beta male with no man skills is not the kind of man who can be counted on in those times. This is why her mind latches on to the Alpha. This is a woman's survival reaction and it's instinctual. It's the same reason women like tall and/or well built men

The same is true of men, if we want to procreate we need a young fertile woman and not one who needs to spend $$$$ on fertility treatments.

 

[Spaz]

I know it isn't only resources. That's just one part, but it's the most urgent anthropological element.

Urgent only if she is unable to gather resources on her own.

If she's able then lifestyle will supercede that.

It's interchangeable.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Sure, everyone has an opinion. Whether it's backed by evidence, experience or vague hunches is what separates truth from illusion.

My experience is hos are in clusters. Whereas women less apt to that thinking hang with similar minded. Hos have a thought process and it is governed by social norms.

 

[Ohso-Phresh]

My experience is hos are in clusters. Whereas women less apt to that thinking hang with similar minded. Hos have a thought process and it is governed by social norms.

The idea of anti-slut defense and negative social proof (being known as a slut) would be counter to your assertion about social norms being an overriding influence over biology.

 

[Spaz]

My experience is hos are in clusters. Whereas women less apt to that thinking hang with similar minded. Hos have a thought process and it is governed by social norms.

All women are hos or angel's, it just depends on which mode she is at a given time.

They bend their will or character accordingly to the situation or environment.

It's a survival mechanism.

But it always adheres towards the feminine imperative.

Even the love of a woman towards a man, is tied towards it.

Man and woman both have very different versions of the meaning of love.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

The idea of anti-slut defense and negative social proof (being known as a slut) would be counter to your assertion about social norms being an overriding influence over biology.

Social norms indicate that the typical ho **** has changed over the years and it has. Some of the ho shyt cool today wasn't cool 20 yrs ago.

 

[Ohso-Phresh]

Social norms indicate that the typical ho **** has changed over the years and it has. Some of the ho shyt cool today wasn't cool 20 yrs ago.

I suppose with the rise of social media selfies, cam-girls, and smut twitter, you have a point.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I suppose with the rise of social media selfies, cam-girls, and smut twitter, you have a point.

Side chick didn't exist. The word thot didn't exist. Alot of the bullshyt thats done and what's considered cool has changed. Ho shyt still existed it was just different. Plus female entitlement increased like crazy and narcissism increase in folks too.

 

[Ohso-Phresh]

Side chick didn't exist. The word thot didn't exist. Alot of the bullshyt thats done and what's considered cool has changed. Ho shyt still existed it was just different. Plus female entitlement increased like crazy and narcissism increase in folks too.

Mistresses have existed throughout history. I don't know what thot is, that a misspelling?

As for female entitlement, yes I see the rise of feminism since WW2 as a factor. I dunno if it's been a great deal for women honestly. As for narcissim, it's existed since antiquity, perhaps with a connected world, see just sees more of it since one's social field of vision has expanded through social media.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Mistresses have existed throughout history. I don't know what thot is, that a misspelling?

As for female entitlement, yes I see the rise of feminism since WW2 as a factor. I dunno if it's been a great deal for women honestly. As for narcissim, it's existed since antiquity, perhaps with a connected world, see just sees more of it since one's social field of vision has expanded through social media.

Thr mindset of mistresses has changed and the acceptance by society. Alot of those things and the energy behind it adjusted.

 

[Ohso-Phresh]

Admittedly, there's enough ambiguity and vacillation that ought to be preceded by "Dear Penthouse" that I could have misinterpreted the subtext. So, correct me if I'm wrong...but, what this says to me is that you were personally opposed to cheating until you were the instrument of it, which converted you to viewing it as a potential good. That's what I'm reading there.

Don't get me wrong, I've been the unwitting instrument more often than i care to recall, but it didn't change my feelings about it. It usually just made me pissed at the chick (and myself) when I found out.

This isn't even about cheating. My objection is to rationalizing one's own behavior as moral, because "hey, I'm a good person, so how bad could it be?"

You stopped judging because continuing to judge meant you would need to judge yourself. Again, I may be misreading your post, but that's what it appears to be saying.

Speaking as a man who's always been pretty hard on himself, people giving themselves hallpasses when they should be soul-searching has always been a pet peeve of mine, and it's starting to seem to me that includes most people under 40.

Yes, you are accurate. I was opposed to cheating and then converted to viewing it as a potential good.

As to the moral question, yes it has caused cognitive dissonance as to what I believe to be right and wrong.


There some additional background:
The woman that I had this experience with described how she was 'set-up' for the engagement. She was to accompanying her BF on his families yearly week-long vacation. He popped the question on the first day and although she was reluctant decided in the moment to say yes due to the fact that she, he and family would be together for the whole week.

She then describes how he has moved in an additional family member who needs long-term care without asking her and that now she was a default primary-care giver without her overt consent.

He then comes down with an ailment that reduces his working hours and is now unemployed for the last six months.

She also describes has she hasn't had sex in over a year and was craving it.

So having heard all that, I suggested that she do what makes her happy. If she's unhappy in her relationship she needs to communicate that. If she no longer wants to get married, then communicate. If she doesn't want to do the primary care-giving for two people, again communicate, get clear on what you want and go for it.

Up to this moment we were just chatting and then I had a thought.

For me, I meditate fairly frequently so that I can be smoother about going with 'first thoughts'.

I threw out the offer of sitting in yab-yum to exchange and ground energy between us. It was in this embrace where she kissed me and things escalated from there.

Just before I was about to enter her, we hear the atv fire up and proceed to listen as her fiance travels all the paths, the perimeter of the property looking for her. I suggested that she text him and get clear. She resisted at first then acquiesced. She said that she had found some camping gear leftover from the festival and told him she was going campout in it, not to worry and she'd be home in the morning. To my surprise he was cool with this. After she puts down the phone,

I say, 'Hey this is a good place for a break,...'
She's replies 'fvck it, I want this!'


How I see it is she was in a situation that she wanted more clarity. She's unhappy, most certainly the dude is as well or non-confronting.

To have a 'fling' for her gave her the clarity of what she wanted, want she needed to do, the price she would have to pay and determine if it was worth it. She could choose to remain in the relationship or to leave. The experience gave her courage to make a change.

Now, when she lied to him the night before, I told her that I didn't feel right about lying to him if I saw him in the morning. I know him, I think he's ok, he's not done me wrong but to not have sexed up his woman for a year didn't sit right with me either.

To alleviate my cognitive dissonance, I proposed we play 'The Secret Agent' game. Yes, I see this as a rationalization to make myself feel better. However my morals have now shifted. Instead of feeling judgement for all the folks that I've known to 'cheat', my judgement gave way to compassion. I realized that people at times are in difficult emotional spaces and who am I to judge what they need or don't need.

Am I now looking to actively seduce women in relationships? No.

I'm gonna keep putting my attention on women when it pleases me. The quality of my attention is a rare experience for a woman.

And if there's an easy energetic unfolding that is effortless, I'm gonna pay attention to that as well and not have a social convention thwart something beautiful that wants to happen.

 

[Kotaix]

What's truly remarkable to me is that this probably comes as news to a great many of your contemporaries, who seem increasingly incapable of distinguishing fact from fantasy.

Not sure what you mean by my contemporaries...

I find my generation to be far more grounded than those who are even 5 years younger. Age has a way waking you up to reality.

 

[Ohso-Phresh]

It definitely seems she shouldn't have been engaged, and like I said, my comment really wasn't about the cheating, although if I'd known you knew and liked the guy, it might've been.

An engagement is a gray area, depending on the particulars. If a married woman told me she intended to leave her husband, it wouldn't make any difference to me. If an engaged woman told me she was definitely breaking her engagement, however, it might make a difference...unless I KNEW the guy. BTW, you do realize you're still rationalizing by suggesting you were correcting a wrong he'd done her, by withholding sex before marriage?

The broken engagement aside, I think single men tend to rationalize being the other man, because they're afraid of missing out, and married men tend to rationalize fidelity, out of fear of loss. Most women are propositioned a thousand times as often as most men, and therefore women have an inflated sense of abundance, whereas men have a false sense of scarcity. Why do you think women who are in no danger of really being alone say, "I don't need a man," but men desperately terrified of being alone bravely say, "I can always get another woman"? It should be the other way around. Men are far too needy of women, either the O N E they want or the O N E they already have. Power rests in not needing anything.

Let’s look at the root of rationalization:
“rational. ... Rational comes from the Latin word rationalis, meaning reasonable or logical. If you're rational, you do things based on logic, as opposed to impulse or whimsy. The original meaning in English was of something endowed with the ability to reason.”

Yes I would agree, I went through a rational decision making process to come to a logical conclusion based on observation and introspection.

Most of the times I’ve heard it expressed in popular culture is to shame and point to a deceptive practice as one relates to themselves.

 

[Ohso-Phresh]

ra·tion·al·i·za·tion
noun​

1. the action of attempting to explain or justify behavior or an attitude with logical reasons, even if these are not appropriate.


"most people are prone to self-deceptive rationalization"


I hope that was a joke, because, if not, you just attempted to rationalize the definition of rationalization.

I'm just going to assume you were joking.

Good one!

A root is the root, definitions build from a fundamental.

There’s nothing self-deceptive nor inappropriate about my thought process. I honored my word, examined my values and calibrated with new information. I feel good and the priorly engaged couple were saved a lifetime of misery.

You can have your judgments, nbd.