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2Rocky

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You might never know her real reason for pulling back. Maybe she is trying to stay unattached emotionally and worried that she will become addicted to your magic ****. All you can do is have more options, but keep the door open.
 

Albatross953

Master Don Juan
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So an update for anybody following. I gave it some time, and decided to circle around. I agree with "ok", and have used that a lot. But I rationalized too much and thought I'd send a two liner trying to coax her into talking. That was 48 hrs ago. No answer. Yes I know against the playbook.
So conclusions: I like this woman all around. But we're done. I still don't know her deal and never will. Chalk it up to high iois failing to predict the future. Get better at reading them.
Took a new woman out. A very tight little skinny blonde willing to have me over in the middle of the apocalypse. Lower iois but she's blowing up my phone now. Probably because I don't really want anything to do with her. During our "date" she talked about various people stalking her, taking money off her ex, and how she doesn't get along with people. She also downed about ten shots of hard liquor and smoked weed the entire time. I don't smoke and I drank water. I bolted at 1030. She's really really attractive but I'm too old to stick my dk in crazy. Plus she didn't even seem impaired. FM I couldn't make this up if I wanted to.

So here's the plan.
Cancelled match until this crap is over.
Self improve, job, fitness, running start when the world opens.
Raise my standards, I've seen what I want. Now I know they're out there. It's not about lays, it's about quality.

And maybe bang the crazy blonde. Mutters NO BAD ALBATROSS.
 

bcude

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So an update for anybody following. I gave it some time, and decided to circle around. I agree with "ok", and have used that a lot. But I rationalized too much and thought I'd send a two liner trying to coax her into talking. That was 48 hrs ago. No answer. Yes I know against the playbook.
So conclusions: I like this woman all around. But we're done. I still don't know her deal and never will. Chalk it up to high iois failing to predict the future. Get better at reading them.
Took a new woman out. A very tight little skinny blonde willing to have me over in the middle of the apocalypse. Lower iois but she's blowing up my phone now. Probably because I don't really want anything to do with her. During our "date" she talked about various people stalking her, taking money off her ex, and how she doesn't get along with people. She also downed about ten shots of hard liquor and smoked weed the entire time. I don't smoke and I drank water. I bolted at 1030. She's really really attractive but I'm too old to stick my dk in crazy. Plus she didn't even seem impaired. FM I couldn't make this up if I wanted to.

So here's the plan.
Cancelled match until this crap is over.
Self improve, job, fitness, running start when the world opens.
Raise my standards, I've seen what I want. Now I know they're out there. It's not about lays, it's about quality.

And maybe bang the crazy blonde. Mutters NO BAD ALBATROSS.
Well done but i wouldn't touch this one even for banging, it's not worth the effort. She's a certified crazy slvt and it will be just a question of time before she messes with your life in some way. Drop it like it's hot.
 

stormrider

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So I ditched the attention whre from my other thread. I've seen five women this month. But it raised a question maybe you can answer. One these women is about forty, divorced, athletic. From what I can see, all her IOIs are high. We had our third date in two weeks last night. Constant IOIs. Drives out of her way. Touchy feelly. Texts me easily twice what I do. Anyway, third date at my place, I make dinner and later I drag her into my room for three hours. The sex is good, not perfect but we're figuring things out. We're both happy, I think she had about 900 orgasms. We're laying there before she leaves just laughing and talking and she said some things that strike me as odd. Like it's confession time. "I never loved my husband" "I have these stretch marks" "I destroyed your bed" (she did if you follow). I listened but didn't really make a big deal of any of it.
She leaves happy, all IOIs. I'm thinking she'd make a great plate. She's insatiable.
This morning after good morning, I get the "we're moving too fast, I'm not feeling it" text. I responded "no pressure, you know where I am"

Now too questions. She turned on a dime. Why? Do you see a way to recover? Because my gut tells me take the sex as a win.... your princess is in another castle.

And why the confessions? I've seen this from other women. Is it self loathing? Are they looking for me to disqualify them so they don't have to end things? Why do her actions to this point say YES and now her words say no?

Sorry, I know these are bush league questions, take the sex and move on.
Her "I think we are moving too fast" was a false take-away. Women do this to see if you really like them. At some point, you failed to show attainability when she opened up to you. You were too concerned with how much she liked you. You were too caught up in your own ego. This is a common mistake that can easily be rectified. The first half of game is being high value. But the second half is expressing attainability. You do this through expressing genuine interest and appreciation for her unique self and rewarding her for her efforts to open up to you. Failure to do this and she will close up and retract her interest in you.

What I usually do is just reward women for making investments and efforts to open themselves up to me. When women show vulnerability, you have to reward her with attention/validation. Otherwise she will shut down. You reward effort/investment, and disqualify them for playing childish games. That's the zen of dealing with women in a nutshell. You can't just be unreactive the whole time. Knowing when to show appreciation and when to withhold your attention is an art in itself.

She makes an effort = you reward her for her efforts =she makes more efforts. This is how you mold them to constantly making efforts and investing.

People like those who like them. And they run away from people who judge them or lack appreciation.

Your focus was too much on her interest in you. But you never mentioned in your post anything unique about her that you genuinely like. Your ego was too over reactive and you were too concerned with her reaction to you. Don't get me wrong, Her interest in you is important. That's 50% of game. The OTHER 50% of game is your reaction to HER.

Seduction is a two way street, not a one way avenue.

The other 50% of game (attainability) is why she ghosted you. You've become good at attracting women by being interesting. Now focus on being interested.

Attraction gets you laid, but genuine interest keeps the women. And genuine interest can only be expressed through appreciation of a person's unique qualities.

Let me give you an example......

Judging by your posts and your reaction to the quality advice given to you, I can tell you have high emotional intelligence and a degree of self-awareness about you. If you keep up your self improvement routine, there is no doubt in my mind you will have it figured out in no time.

You probably like me a lot more now because I was able to see what was unique about you and amplify it by showing appreciation. This is the secret to charm and charisma.

When you show people that you see them for who they are, it creates a connection. Many guys on this forum are able to attract women, but they don't know how to create genuine connections and have women want to bask in their presence.

From now on, forget ioi's. Not because they aren't important (they have their place), but they should be taken for granted. You've cross the river with the boat, but now it's time for you to let go of the boat. You are on land now and it's tiresome to drag a boat around. You've graduated past being concerned if women are impressed by you. If she's with you, you assume attraction. It's time to focus on the other 50% of game. What makes a woman unique to you? When she expresses it, reward her for it. Say "I've just realized now that not just are you sexy, but you have a really cool vibe about you. I appreciate people who can be in the moment."

This is called a statement of intent (SOI). Make powerful statements to women and lay it all on the line. Be 100% vulnerable and appreciative. This is actually expressing strength and not weakness. Weakness is holding back your appreciation because you fear it won't be reciprocated.

If I was in your shoes and she gave me that line "we're moving too fast," I would have completely tossed aside her frame and not even acknowledge it. I would have just injected my own frame and say "I've just realize that not just are you sexy, but I really like your vibe. I feel like we are on the same wavelength. That's probably why we met. I always seem to run into people that are on my wavelength."

I've done this in the past being in your exact situation and I've been able to turn it around 90% of the time. The woman realizes my reality makes her her a lot better than her own reality of "This guy doesn't appreciate me for who I am" and so she is more than happy to live in my frame.

This is the mark of good leadership. When you can leave women better than when you found them. Because that's your job. It's not about you anymore. You are already high value enough. You don't need anyone's validation anymore. You are a source of validation now.

The first 50% of game is climbing that mountain to become a high value guy. But the final 50% of game is making yourself attainable.

When you are climbing that mountain, everything looks like a sh1t test. But when you are coming down from that mountain, everything looks like a neg-hit. You realize women aren't really testing you - they have no authority. You are too dominant and high value. Women are actually negging you to knock you off your pedestal because you are not being attainable enough.

And that's what happened to you. You are a high value guy who is still stuck in the old paradigm.

I don't have a "method" but if I did, it would look like this:

Become high value
Express attainability through expressing genuine interest.

or

Have a dominant presence
Show appreciation.

Most guys lack that other 50% because they think they are still climbing that mountain. The "self realized" guys know that when a guy is infinitely validated, there is nothing more to attain. You can only give.

My method for showing appreciation is really simple:

She makes an effort to express her unique self/invest in the interaction
I reward her for her efforts with attention/validation/appreciation

If she feels like I lack genuine interest and decides to throw me a false takeaway like "I feel like we are moving to fast", I toss aside her frame and install my own frame with an SOI: "Not just are you sexy, but you are also [insert unique quality]. I like that about you.

I frame myself as the source of validation. I don't need her validation. There is nothing she can give me that I haven't already given myself. In a sense, I am my own self-sustaining eco-system. And women are part of that eco-system.

TLDR: When the popular guy in high school addresses you by your first name and tells you he likes your style and tells you to keep it up, you'll think he's the coolest guy ever because not only is he high value, but he is also down to earth and personable. Despite his status, he "sees" you. He's "different" from all the other high value guys who couldn't distinguish you from a can of paint. This is the secret to charm and charisma and having people infatuated by you.

Its not about you anymore. It's not about how much you can gain, but rather, how much you can give. This is the frame of the validator.
 
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Albatross953

Master Don Juan
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Thanks Stormrider, I just read your post like 7x. You gave me a lot to think about and writing 1200 words to help out a complete stranger speaks volumes about your character.. I appreciate the effort from all you guys.
You're right my posts aren't really complete. I didn't really get into why I like her with you guys. Truth be told, when she was around I found myself standing on the brakes holding back with her. I guess I do need to work on that natural balance. We were laying in bed last week and as she's talking about her stretch marks, I replied "I don't care about them, we all have scars. I'm glad I met you". This was my awkward, post sex guard down response that I cringed at when I thought about it later.
Your post has given me a lot to think about. No longer in just what to say but more importantly how to say it. And how to back it up with real belief in my own mind.

And now crazy is texting again...
 

stormrider

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Thanks Stormrider, I just read your post like 7x. You gave me a lot to think about and writing 1200 words to help out a complete stranger speaks volumes about your character.. I appreciate the effort from all you guys.
You're right my posts aren't really complete. I didn't really get into why I like her with you guys. Truth be told, when she was around I found myself standing on the brakes holding back with her. I guess I do need to work on that natural balance. We were laying in bed last week and as she's talking about her stretch marks, I replied "I don't care about them, we all have scars. I'm glad I met you". This was my awkward, post sex guard down response that I cringed at when I thought about it later.
Your post has given me a lot to think about. No longer in just what to say but more importantly how to say it. And how to back it up with real belief in my own mind.

And now crazy is texting again...
Usually when I post something of that magnitude, it's to address a universal issue. What's personal is universal. Most guys have the same sticking points. Including myself. I used to be that over-protective guy where the chick would give me 1000 ioi's and I would be like "Where's the 1001st ioi?" And then I would go backwards everytime the woman wanted to seek rapport and connection. Eventually she leaves me for another guy but makes sure I see it so that I realized what I missed out on.

It actually took me a long time to figure out that all the sh1t tests were actually negs. Women are inherently insecure and naturally try to knock you down a couple of pegs when they sense you are not humble enough.

Everything they do is to make themselves look less desperate - so that they can see how you really feel. Hence, the false-takeaways. Even women in clubs that tell you right off the bat they have a "bf" but at the same time show interest are just pretending they have a bf because they don't want to look too desperate showing interest in you.

When you realize that women are inherently weak and all they do is manipulate and try to compensate for that weakness, a new whole world opens up.

The guys that lack self-realization think women are somehow testing men for dominance. Women have no authority to test men. It's the opposite. Women are intimidated by your dominance so they neg you, play games, and do false take-aways to elevate themselves to your level.

The guy takes it the wrong way and thinks women are playing games with him because hes low value. No, it's BECAUSE he's high value that women are playing these games with him. They have ego-protection on full mode because the guy is a threat.

When a woman is attracted to you, the first thing she thinks is "What if he doesn't like me back?" So they play all sorts of weird games like flirting with other guys to make you jealous, neg you to knock you down to size, give you the poker face and pretend you don't exist or what you've just experienced - tell the guy things are moving too fast because he failed to show genuine interest.

As guys, we are actually more powerful and dominant that we realize. A 5'4 woman weighing 125 lbs cannot ever fathom that her games would have any effect on you. Weak and insecure people do not realize the magnitude of their power. They imagine themselves as having no power whatsoever so they compensate and play games.

99% of women do this. The 1% who doesn't who doesn't are probably already in a relationship with a great guy.

My "game" is actually compensating for women's weakness, lol. I disqualify myself, make myself appear vulnerable and attainable so that women don't feel I am too unreactive to the point where they feel like they need to play petty games with me.

This is the proper frame to have. You are a dominant guy who understands his power and you go out of your way to make weak people feel more comfortable around you. This is the frame of popular charismatic guys in high school, celebrities, and CEO's.

They are not caught up in trying to appear dominant. They already know their dominance. They are more concerned with looking relatable, being personable, genuine, authentic, and humble. Observe every charismatic celebrity interview and you can see they do everything to avoid looking boastful.

The world of high value people looks completely different. It's like a competition to see who can look the most humble, least boastful, and least over-compensating.

When I entered this world, I actually disappointed a lot of women at first. They were disappointed to see how much pride, ego-protection and reactive I was. It wasn't until I became selfless and was able to put others before me and assume the role of the validator/leader of the tribe who's focus was beyond himself and for the betterment of the tribe that women(and people) finally liked me as a person.
 

synecdoche

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Good posts Stormrider, great insight, lots of stuff to think about.

I frame myself as the source of validation. I don't need her validation. There is nothing she can give me that I haven't already given myself. In a sense, I am my own self-sustaining eco-system. And women are part of that eco-system.
I do however that to make this work once must have achieved inner harmony. He knows his desires and works with purpose to achieve them, feelings, thought and actions are congruent with another. This is high level and goes way above most of us their heads.

You mention being vulnerable (and being brutally honest) to women in other posts as well, and often they are taken aback by it. Could you explain this a bit more? I don't think you mean that you are spilling out your feelings to them, nor try to appear weak in their eyes.

In my experience, the girls who were obsessed with me were the ones I treated like sh*t, as in giving them hardly any validation. The kept chasing it, hoping they could somehow attain it. Obvious reason why I didn't validate them was because their opinion didn't matter to me, I didn't care about them and had an abundance mindset.
 
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