Recognizing sh!t tests. Date last night.

flowtheory

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#1
There’s nothing better than being in the middle of a date and recognizing when a woman is sh!t testing you.

Was on a first date last night with a attractive woman - solid HB8, lawyer, 27. Had lots of fun. Went to a bar with pinball, foosball, football throwing machine, pool tables. We had drinks. She nursed her wine forever, and we set up a second date at the end.

During the night, I was grabbing change for the foosball machine and she was getting excited/anxious, as she’s quite competitive. At the time I walked to the bar a guy came in and came up somewhat beside me and started talking loudly with the barkeep. He was ..somewhat.. attractive?, bigger than me by about two inches, rougher looking, seemed cool but also loud and extroverted. I think this is what some call Alpha. He had a friend in tow who followed his lead also.

Anyways. As he approaches the bar at the same time I do. HB8 is saying something to me from a distance but I can’t hear, so I turn back to the bar. Then she comes directly over excitedly but childlike and says she’s super competitive and we shouldn’t play because of some reason I can’t remember, blah blah. I laugh and she walks away.
As she’s walking away this guy turns to me and her and says ‘what’s going on now?’ (Like wtf buddy? Who are you? And why does it concern you, first of all) and so I say “oh she’s just.. competitive”. And then he turns to her and says something and she responds and talks about foosball or something.. he completely drops the bar and trying to get pooltable balls and gives her full attention and then heh walks over to her and the foosball machine and starts walking her through the game of foosball!! (haha!). Right away I know what’s going on. So I turn and continue to get change and order my drink. As I finally do, I go back over and they’re side-by-side and he’s showing her how to fan the little players. And as I put my drinks down, I speak up and say “No fanning! This is a good clean match!” And as I do, buddy and HB8 laugh and then he immediately walks away.

The point of my story is that it’s great when you can see sh!t tests in the moment and have complete control of yourself and handle things well.

Funny enough I got to see how she handled a similar situation later in the evening. About 30 minutes later we finally grabbed a booth and sat down. As she was talking about stuff a booth behind her was filled with two women. One woman with her back turned to me got up and left to use the bathroom.
The remaining woman - about 24 - was facing me and I could see she was making faces in my peripheral vision. I glance over and she starts winking at me. Left eye, right eye, left eye. Flirty. I turn to my date again and I can see her STILL winking left eye, right eye.. back to the date.. I turn over and she’s winking.. holding the winks now. Left eye, right eye.. and so finally I look directly at her and say “what are you winking at?!”
My date is taken back and turns in her booth to figure out what’s going on; just as I am and she starts just talking and not giving any real explanations because she’s been outed.. but long story short I got to see how my date handled another woman coming on to me.. haha

Weird and fun night.
 

ohrein

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#2
Glad the other guy moved on. I've had a few sketchy moments like that where dudes have tried to be physically intimidating. I had one pull a chair away as I was going to sit at a bar with a girl. I swapped my chair for hers and grabbed another one without a pause, but the dude continued to stare at me afterwards. Was very weird.
 

flowtheory

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#3
Glad the other guy moved on. I've had a few sketchy moments like that where dudes have tried to be physically intimidating. I had one pull a chair away as I was going to sit at a bar with a girl. I swapped my chair for hers and grabbed another one without a pause, but the dude continued to stare at me afterwards. Was very weird.
What would be the best way to handle a situation like that; if you’re on a first or third date and some other guy keeps hitting on the woman, she’s not put off, and the other guy is physically bigger than you and knows exactly what he’s doing? And he sticks around for awhile or keeps returning..
Ask him to leave? Befriend him?

I’ve never been in this position before.
 

ubercat

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#4
First point is nothing works all the time. If she thinks he is a better deal and plays up to him not much you can do. Chicks r totally hypergamous in early dating. Good thing there r so many of them

Longer answer is get her to invest more. E.g. venue shift and hold hands and/or make out between venues.

Last point is whatever countermove you make has to be without hesitation. Hesitation will be seen as poor leadership and yr done.
 

Bible_Belt

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#5
After about three seconds of her entertaining him, I would have found her revolting. I would never, ever let her know that, however. Just be friendly to everyone, end the date politely, and never call again. That is not a woman who is interested in you.

Call me a big feminist, but let's not pretend that women can't stand up for themselves. She knows how to get rid of that guy, but she didn't want to. If I'm on a first date and some guy drags the girl off by the hair, you know what? You can have her, pal. Enjoy your false rape accusation.
 

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Spaz

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#6
Can't relate to how you guys feel.

It's an inherent rule that ALL men understands, to never fvck around with a dominant man's woman especially in front of him. Yes they can look and admire but never disrespect him blatantly.

The vibe he subconsciously produces is sufficient to hold that frame.
 

flowtheory

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#7
After about three seconds of her entertaining him, I would have found her revolting. I would never, ever let her know that, however. Just be friendly to everyone, end the date politely, and never call again. That is not a woman who is interested in you.

Call me a big feminist, but let's not pretend that women can't stand up for themselves. She knows how to get rid of that guy, but she didn't want to. If I'm on a first date and some guy drags the girl off by the hair, you know what? You can have her, pal. Enjoy your false rape accusation.
Wait, she’s not interested in me because of the situation I described, or you’re responding to my second scenario?
 

Bible_Belt

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#8
Wait, she’s not interested in me because of the situation I described, or you’re responding to my second scenario?
I'm not saying this to be a d!ck, but unless she was communicating signs of disinterest to the other guy, then yes, her interest level in you is low. It is just a first date, but she was ambivalent toward you at best. Maybe that will change, who knows, just telling you what I see. A girl who is into you will reject other men in your company in direct proportion to the extent that she is into you.
 

Howiestern

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#9
Flow- solid/respectful/high interest girls that are really into you won't act like this one did on a first date. She will be very closed off to any other males advances. This one isn't that interested in you, or she isn't that good of a girl. You'll figure it out in due time.

I was on a first date with a girl last night. I got up to go to the bathroom and of course when I do, the guy next me starts chatting her up. On the way back from the bathroom I observed her from afar. She was closed off, barely acknowledged the douche bag. Even the female bartender was turned off from this guy trying to take advantage of the situation. So when I get back my date says in a disappointed tone that "this guy was trying to talk to me asking me if I was on a date". I simply smile and say "I wouldn't have expected anything else". She smiles, I pull her closer and we enjoy a long/passionate first kiss right there. The douche bag immediately gets up and goes to the bathroom and I tell her "well I guess that took care of that didn't it!"

I've had this happen several times. If you are going to date attractive women it comes with the territory. Just be cool and confident about it. Don't worry about the other guy.
 
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ohrein

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#10
What would be the best way to handle a situation like that; if you’re on a first or third date and some other guy keeps hitting on the woman, she’s not put off, and the other guy is physically bigger than you and knows exactly what he’s doing? And he sticks around for awhile or keeps returning..
Ask him to leave? Befriend him?

I’ve never been in this position before.
I've never had a woman entertain another guy. I'd walk out and ghost her without a word. As for if a guy is hitting on your date/girlfriend I just ignore it. Unless she's getting touched or intimidated the women I date can handle themselves without me making it worse.
 
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Spaz

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#11
I've never had a woman entertain another guy. I'd walk out and ghost her without a word. As for if a guy is hitting on your date/girlfriend I just ignore it. Unless she's getting touched or intimidated the women I date can handle themselves without me making it worse.
Another dude shows massive disrespect right in front you can be brushed off as being drunk, ill mannered or whatever but when ur date entertains him and further reinforces that disrespect then a man must stand on his dignity by walking away.

Pure disrespect is not a sh1t test.
 

flowtheory

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#12
I'm not saying this to be a d!ck, but unless she was communicating signs of disinterest to the other guy, then yes, her interest level in you is low. It is just a first date, but she was ambivalent toward you at best. Maybe that will change, who knows, just telling you what I see. A girl who is into you will reject other men in your company in direct proportion to the extent that she is into you.
Interesting. She accepted my offer to go on a second date At the end of the night. Didn’t get the feeling she was low interest; quite the opposite.

She stated that we weren’t on a date to begin with, even on tinder, where we met. That she doesn’t do first dates and has no expectations. And also stated that if she isn’t interested she has no problem walking away.

After we played foosball; we relocated to a booth. We were originally sitting next to the pool table where random guy was. she chose to go sit in a booth on the other side. If she wanted his attention or something she would have gone back to our original spot, no?

She could have been talking to that guy just to be outgoing too, no? Doesn’t always have to be so cut and dry.

And she is being relatively warm over text except for one part: I gave her the option of picking her up or to meet at the second date location and she responded with
“Eek nothing near my house, I’ll meet you there. (Thank you for the offer though)”
But I can understand that maybe she is guarded and wants to properly vet someone before disclosing certain information like that.

This topic just turned on me.
 

RangerMIke

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#13
Ask him to leave? Befriend him?
Befriend him... Treat him like you would trying to pick up a chick... find out something you observe about him that is interesting and compliment him on that. Ask him questions about himself. People love talking about themselves, build rapport on what he says. The person asking questions subconsciously gains a position of power. Give him a little self-deprecating humor to disarm him then tease him a little... works like a charm. You will get much better results doing this than being confrontational.
 

ohrein

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#15
Interesting. She accepted my offer to go on a second date At the end of the night. Didn’t get the feeling she was low interest; quite the opposite.

She stated that we weren’t on a date to begin with, even on tinder, where we met. That she doesn’t do first dates and has no expectations. And also stated that if she isn’t interested she has no problem walking away.

After we played foosball; we relocated to a booth. We were originally sitting next to the pool table where random guy was. she chose to go sit in a booth on the other side. If she wanted his attention or something she would have gone back to our original spot, no?

She could have been talking to that guy just to be outgoing too, no? Doesn’t always have to be so cut and dry.

And she is being relatively warm over text except for one part: I gave her the option of picking her up or to meet at the second date location and she responded with
“Eek nothing near my house, I’ll meet you there. (Thank you for the offer though)”
But I can understand that maybe she is guarded and wants to properly vet someone before disclosing certain information like that.

This topic just turned on me.
I mean you are the person who has the most information but she sounds like she was just being friendly, and is a friendly person. Women can feel trapped when approached by guys, particularly built guys. They have to be cordial, it's their defense mechanism. So you have to decide if she was being friendly with the guy, or entertaining the guys advances.

As for the no picking her up, can't blame women for that. Sounds like she's got a brain. That should change by 3rd/4th date.
 
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flowtheory

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#16
I mean you are the person who has the most information but she sounds like she was just being friendly, and is a friendly person. Women can feel trapped when approached by guys, particularly built guys. They have to be cordial, it's their defense mechanism. So you have to decide if she was being friendly with the guy, or entertaining the guys advances.

As for the no picking her up, can't blame women for that. Sounds like she's got a brain. That should change by 3rd/4th date.
Yea I figured as much. It didn’t seem flirty or anything. Can’t say the same for that guy though; he was a bit weird it just slightly drunk/friendly.
Also I would be almost turned off if she was rude to him and ignored him completely, to be honest.

I can definitely understand the picking her up thing. She does seem like she’s just seeing what’s really going on with us/me right now; cautious. And I completely respect and understand that.

To pay or not pay for the entry to the Christmas venue? Should I be escalating physically or go in for the kiss with a woman in the second date who clearly has a strong guard and seemingly likes to move slow?
 

Bible_Belt

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#17
I gave her the option of picking her up or to meet at the second date location and she responded with
“Eek nothing near my house, I’ll meet you there. (Thank you for the offer though)”
But I can understand that maybe she is guarded and wants to properly vet someone before disclosing certain information like that.
Coming from someone with a law degree, who has dated women with the same, pretty much everyone is dorky and socially awkward. So maybe she gets a bit of a pass for not having great social skills, but come on, man. At least stand up for yourself. Why do you want to date someone who is scared to let you be near where they live? Don't let something like that pass without at least ripping on her. Tell her she doesn't need to be embarrassed of where she lives. If she gets offended, too bad, but I would not let someone I had already met talk like that to me.

You have this frane of you being the lucky one to get to date her, and I think she agrees. That's a recipe for failure.
 

ohrein

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#18
Yea I figured as much. It didn’t seem flirty or anything. Can’t say the same for that guy though; he was a bit weird it just slightly drunk/friendly.
Also I would be almost turned off if she was rude to him and ignored him completely, to be honest.

I can definitely understand the picking her up thing. She does seem like she’s just seeing what’s really going on with us/me right now; cautious. And I completely respect and understand that.

To pay or not pay for the entry to the Christmas venue? Should I be escalating physically or go in for the kiss with a woman in the second date who clearly has a strong guard and seemingly likes to move slow?
I said it in another thread and I think it's a mantra I will be repeating. When you do something is less important than deciding should you do it. Focus on whether she's likely to reciprocate, on the night, rather than how many dates it should happen in. You should also be physically escalating before the kiss to see if she's receptive to your touch as well, rather than blindly going for a kiss (although that can work).

I would say, if a woman is going on a second date and that date is going well enough, so she's friendly and laughing and very focused on you, yes. A kiss shouldn't be a big deal.

As for paying, that's really up to you. I don't pay for women until I feel like they're invested in me. First and second dates I never pay for. In fact, I like to see women buying me drinks on first and second dates. It shows me they're invested in me and weeds out users real quick.
 

ohrein

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#19
Tell her she doesn't need to be embarrassed of where she lives. If she gets offended, too bad, but I would not let someone I had already met talk like that to me.
That's a great c0cky/funny line, but I think it's completely reasonable for women to be cautious of their house. It's not a sh1t test, it's just being smart. As a guy when I was dating on Tinder I never had houses involved until after three dates. My housemate ended up having to call the cops on a crazy he met on Tinder. I met a crazy on Tinder who I'm very glad didn't know where I lived. Women get far more of the crazies too. The street I'd often date women on has had multiple rape/murders of single women in the last decade. I don't think it's disrespect at all after one date. She wants to see repeatable data that the guy she's dating isn't just hiding the weirdo and often women use that line to see if guys will freak out. I think she's just smart.
 

Bible_Belt

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#20
That's a great c0cky/funny line, but I think it's completely reasonable for women to be cautious of their house. It's not a sh1t test, it's just being smart. As a guy when I was dating on Tinder I never had houses involved until after three dates. My housemate ended up having to call the cops on a crazy he met on Tinder. I met a crazy on Tinder who I'm very glad didn't know where I lived. Women get far more of the crazies too. The street I'd often date women on has had multiple rape/murders of single women in the last decade. I don't think it's disrespect at all after one date. She wants to see repeatable data that the guy she's dating isn't just hiding the weirdo and often women use that line to see if guys will freak out. I think she's just smart.
I could see that as reasonable if they had never met in person. But they have already been on a date. She's saying, "I know we have hung out for a few hours, but I still think you might be a serial killer."

OP: "Okey Dokey! Let me take you out again!"

I just don't share his optimism.
 
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