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Recent observations on Confidence.

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The other night I was out with some friends. Random guy who is a friend of a friend joins.

Pretty normal night. Drinks, mingling, joking around.

Cut to a conversation between me, one of my gfs and him. I have never met someone in real life who was more sure of himself yet more wrong about nearly everything he said.

The next day I had the thought -" How can that guy be so confident yet so wrong?"

And then it hit me. There is the perception of confidence and there is actual ability or knowledge. They can overlap but do not always.

If that is at least partially true how does that impact the old saying "fake it till you make it?" or the idea of the dunning-kruger effect?

It's really been ****ing with me recently. Because when I act more confident than I necessarily feel I get better results socially. When I do the same thing at work or in areas of personal growth I get mixed results. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of living in a way where i present myself as maximally socially confident but in my private life be a lot more intellectually balanced, less outwardly confident.

Thoughts?
 

mrgoodstuff

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I called that "
The other night I was out with some friends. Random guy who is a friend of a friend joins.

Pretty normal night. Drinks, mingling, joking around.

Cut to a conversation between me, one of my gfs and him. I have never met someone in real life who was more sure of himself yet more wrong about nearly everything he said.

The next day I had the thought -" How can that guy be so confident yet so wrong?"

And then it hit me. There is the perception of confidence and there is actual ability or knowledge. They can overlap but do not always.

If that is at least partially true how does that impact the old saying "fake it till you make it?" or the idea of the dunning-kruger effect?

It's really been ****ing with me recently. Because when I act more confident than I necessarily feel I get better results socially. When I do the same thing at work or in areas of personal growth I get mixed results. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of living in a way where i present myself as maximally socially confident but in my private life be a lot more intellectually balanced, less outwardly confident.

Thoughts?
I called that "stupid confidence" its a ton of it. They will persuade people who don't know the details due to the excessive high confidence.
 

Robert28

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Guys with fake confidence will fail sh!t test right away. Think a girl is going to find out to see if he’s for real or just putting on an act? You can bet on it. Women will submarine that fake confidence first chance they get.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Guys with fake confidence will fail sh!t test right away. Think a girl is going to find out to see if he’s for real or just putting on an act? You can bet on it. Women will submarine that fake confidence first chance they get.
"Stupid confidence" doesn't tank. They don't care if they are right or wrong.
 

zekko

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This is a favorite topic of mine simply because I find it so baffling. I saw a video recently where they said women despise men who are confident for no reason. That makes sense, but I have no idea if it's true or not. I'm sure it is sometimes at least.

I'm sure we all know someone who is more confident than they should be but have success with it anyway. But they will still get their comeuppance on occasion.
 

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mrgoodstuff

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This is a favorite topic of mine simply because I find it so baffling. I saw a video recently where they said women despise men who are confident for no reason. That makes sense, but I have no idea if it's true or not. I'm sure it is sometimes at least.

I'm sure we all know someone who is more confident than they should be but have success with it anyway. But they will still get their comeuppance on occasion.
So people have different levels of confidence? Does it matter in life?
 

stringpuller

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The other night I was out with some friends. Random guy who is a friend of a friend joins.

Pretty normal night. Drinks, mingling, joking around.

Cut to a conversation between me, one of my gfs and him. I have never met someone in real life who was more sure of himself yet more wrong about nearly everything he said.

The next day I had the thought -" How can that guy be so confident yet so wrong?"

And then it hit me. There is the perception of confidence and there is actual ability or knowledge. They can overlap but do not always.

If that is at least partially true how does that impact the old saying "fake it till you make it?" or the idea of the dunning-kruger effect?

It's really been ****ing with me recently. Because when I act more confident than I necessarily feel I get better results socially. When I do the same thing at work or in areas of personal growth I get mixed results. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of living in a way where i present myself as maximally socially confident but in my private life be a lot more intellectually balanced, less outwardly confident.

Thoughts?
You are correct. Percieved confidence is separate from knowledge. Percieved alphaness is also that. Woman fall for it all the time but make no mistake about it God gave women for the most part to sniff out that puzzy in you right to the surface.

If she smells it she will want to find it like a hound dog with a feline stealth. And the fckn funny part and what i think is my biggest ahhh ha momebt is she cant literally explain to you this process.

Its in her DNA. The best thing for me is be confident in my life boundries and principles. Socially if you believe in it... own it.
When a woman challenges your views and principles she's challenging our frame.
Even when you are wrong never suplicate to the point of shaming yourself to her.
Their puzzy sniffer will blow your fckibg mind and the hotter they are in SMV the better smell they have. Dont be a puzzy about anything.
Lets say your having trouble getting your break caliper off your car. You are better off throwing wrench and kick the garage door then to go in the house and whine about how its being a bytch.
If we must do anything err to the side of violence lol sarcasm implied here but you know what i mean.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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"Fake it till you make it" is cancer. Faking confidence does nothing beyond some initial impression, because it's impossible to keep up the charade.

Real confidence comes from genuine competence which is some combination of experience, aptitude, and knowledge.

The subject of confidence is a strange one though. Sometimes you can be supremely adept at something but show no outword signs of confidence due to the dunning kruger effect. This is especially true in regards to knowledge, because it's very often the case that the more you know about something, the more you realize how much you don't know.

But if you truly believe you are the ****, women might latch on to that, even if you're incompetent, so it's kind of a strange thing to wrap your head around.
 
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LARaiders85

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The other night I was out with some friends. Random guy who is a friend of a friend joins.

Pretty normal night. Drinks, mingling, joking around.

Cut to a conversation between me, one of my gfs and him. I have never met someone in real life who was more sure of himself yet more wrong about nearly everything he said.

The next day I had the thought -" How can that guy be so confident yet so wrong?"

And then it hit me. There is the perception of confidence and there is actual ability or knowledge. They can overlap but do not always.

If that is at least partially true how does that impact the old saying "fake it till you make it?" or the idea of the dunning-kruger effect?

It's really been ****ing with me recently. Because when I act more confident than I necessarily feel I get better results socially. When I do the same thing at work or in areas of personal growth I get mixed results. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of living in a way where i present myself as maximally socially confident but in my private life be a lot more intellectually balanced, less outwardly confident.

Thoughts?
you do have to be different things to different people at different times and yes it's a little bit draining but you get used to it
 

stringpuller

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"Fake it till you make it" is cancer. Faking confidence does nothing beyond some initial impression, because it's impossible to keep up the charade.

Real confidence comes from genuine competence which is some combination of experience, aptitude, and knowledge.

The subject of confidence is a strange one though. Sometimes you can be supremely adept at something but show no outword signs of confidence due to the dunning kruger effect. This is especially true in regards to knowledge, because it's very often the case that the more you know about something, the more you realize how much you don't know.

But if you truly believe you are the ****, women might latch on to that, even if you're incompetent, so it's kind of a strange thing to wrap your head around.
I use to think fake it till you make was what you said until i realized there was some truth to it.
I guy growing up sheltered or behind the curve might need a little taste of success in something to let his subconscious mind start to be reprogrammed.
Eric Disco aka, i dont know his real name, thats his pen name i think.
wrote a book called Approach Anxiety and he did a great job explaining exposure in steps rather then all in at once. Hes helped a lot of guys. And he was spot on about working out the social muscles.
 

metalwater

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overconfidence works with women that are ovulating. a week or two later the same girl will see right through it; but on those few days, she will go blind and not think about the truth of anything; she will just suck up the confidence regardless of its origin. for non-chad tier guys; it is important to know and understand the cycle. the overconfidence can get through on those days a few days; especially if no obstacles other than the girl.

chemistry 101.
 

zekko

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overconfidence works with women that are ovulating. a week or two later the same girl will see right through it; but on those few days, she will go blind and not think about the truth of anything; she will just suck up the confidence regardless of its origin. for non-chad tier guys; it is important to know and understand the cycle.
"Excuse me, miss, are you ovulating?"
 

metalwater

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"Excuse me, miss, are you ovulating?"
ha ha. if you watch the girl and think about it you will know. it does make a difference in how to interact. it is the main reason why guys can not figure out why a girl is excited for them one day and when they wait a week.. and contact her things are different. pretty hard to know on a cold approach.. but for girls we know we can figure it out and adjust accordingly.
 

evan12

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Guys with fake confidence will fail sh!t test right away. Think a girl is going to find out to see if he’s for real or just putting on an act? You can bet on it. Women will submarine that fake confidence first chance they get.
Dont be so sure, women all what care about outside , if you look outside as confident you will score more with women regardless of if you are faking it or not, simply because women find it hard to fake such things so they assume everyone is like that.
 

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ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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Yup, I know EXACTLY what you’re talking about. And the solution is simple:

Actually be that overly confident guy.

It’s something that I noticed socially in my everyday life. The person who ‘wins’ in an argument isn’t the person who’s actually right, it’s the person who is more sure of himself. People will take that side even if he’s wrong simply because of the background thought “he can’t be this sure of himself unless he’s actually right”. It’s just how social dynamics work. Especially because most people don’t have that type of confidence.

I’m speaking as someone who does have that confidence lol. But it’s true though, it works. And to an extent, having strong opinions do too, oftentimes because it mimics this effect.

If I’m being honest though, most of the time, those people don’t last. For one thing, it’s possible that your friend’s friend was just acting like that because there were girls around. Plus he joined late too, meaning that he may have just been trying to be that guy, if you know what I mean (like that ‘cool’ guy). And it goes without saying, alcohol also has that effect on people too oftentime. The truth is, most people are just like that in the moment, but in actuality aren’t really that confident deep down inside (maybe they’re just really really passionate about the topic at hand; it goes back to the strongly opinionated thing I said before). But even if he is genuinely like that, like I said, they don’t last. At some point in time, someone who REALLY knows his shit is gonna call him out (and I say “him” because let’s face it, when’s the last time you’ve ever met an overconfident girl before? It doesn’t happen, only guys are like this lol; gotta love that testosterone :devil: ). And I know this because it’s happened to me a few times before too, although I usually try to see things from all sides before making an opinion on something; but that’s besides the point.

Here is where the self-improvement stuff comes in though. Not only do you have to be irrationally self-confident in these social situations, you also have to actually have the skill and knowledge base too. Lemme give you a real-world example: I’m sitting in my gender studies class calling out all the leftist progtard feminist bullshit that’s been shoved down our throats for the last 6 decades. When I’m giving my argument (debunking this stupid ****), I don’t just say it’s bs and leave it at that lol; yes, I have to be irrationally confident, but I also have to know the actual facts too, AND why the feminist narrative is wrong. And not only that, I need to know why someone else is wrong if they disagree with me.

In other words, you must be able to poke holes in other people’s arguments if they start to argue against you, because when it comes touchy subjects like the ones in my class, you best believe people won’t back down without a fight; you’re basically saying that their life is a lie and that a part of their identity is completely wrong/faulty. It bothers them because it gives them a mini existential crisis in that they have to question their own reality afterwards. Also because attacking something like this is like attacking them as individuals because it’s become a part of their own personal identity.

In your typical social situations, just mocking them (the other party) and their arguments will do the trick. But if it’s in a more serious environment, you may need to actually elaborate why it’s wrong. This type of stuff gets into philosophy and psychology bc when someone disagrees with you when you KNOW you are right, even after you’ve explained the facts to them, the only way for them to really argue against you is through logical fallacies (e.g. humans need to be alive in order for cancer to grow, and because water keeps humans alive, water therefore causes cancer). And even though logically these arguments don’t make sense, socially people may not recognize that until you break it down to them. The best way I’ve found to deal with situations like these is to use clearly faulty analogies/comparisons that use the same logic the person arguing against me is using (you’ve seen them before; these analogies typically start off with “but that’s like saying...”) because it lets other people understand how the argument the other person is making is wrong, and it works in more serious environments too because it also explains why they’re wrong.

Even then, people may disagree with you. At that point, you just make fun of them and/or mock them though. Why? Because others around you now KNOW you are right and they (the other party) is wrong, but is just being too stubborn to admit it. Doing this will emphasize you being right, while also socially punishing/humiliating the other person so as to not mess with you again, which in turn shows more confidence on your end while also showing that you have self-respect. Just make sure that when you do it, you don’t name-call or mock them for something completely unrelated to the discussion at hand because then THAT shows weakness (bc it means that your ego is hurt).

So yeah, social dynamics in a nutshell. This should be in all books teaching social skills and confidence. DJ Bible material. Beyond even Pook. (Like I said, irrational confidence, eh? ;) )
This is a favorite topic of mine simply because I find it so baffling. I saw a video recently where they said women despise men who are confident for no reason. That makes sense, but I have no idea if it's true or not. I'm sure it is sometimes at least.

I'm sure we all know someone who is more confident than they should be but have success with it anyway. But they will still get their comeuppance on occasion.
They don’t hate the guy himself, they just hate the fact that he’s so sure of himself because they know they never could be. It’s just their own insecurity speaking lol
 
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I called that "

I called that "stupid confidence" its a ton of it. They will persuade people who don't know the details due to the excessive high confidence.
Just kind of odd. I'm probably missing something here in the situation but I literally almost never feel that feeling. I constantly am checking my thinking and asking myself "am I making a dumb mistake here?"

I think my inability to exist out of that frame ( I.E. not have the sort of charming stupidity it takes to be blindly confident) is what makes it so strange to me.

Cheers!
 
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Guys with fake confidence will fail sh!t test right away. Think a girl is going to find out to see if he’s for real or just putting on an act? You can bet on it. Women will submarine that fake confidence first chance they get.
No disrespect but this is deeper than PUA and that world. This is a human problem that I dont know if has any solution. It's probably not tenable to doubt everything all the time. And probably not possible to properly check everything all the time. so how do you navigate the mismatch between confidence and truth?

Sh!t tests are one thing. the tennis volley metaphor is a useful framework for me. if the girl says something sh!t test esque a safe bet if you have nothing clever to say is to just lob the conversational ball back to her. (eg: that's an interesting opinion and I guess your entitled to it *eye roll)

Cheers
 
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