Quik's Workout Log

[donjuanjovi]

Are you going to keep us in the loop? Possibly with an online journal?

 

[ATX1001]

thats bull**** you can tell the difference between a fat guy with clothes on and a muscular guy with clothes on...theres a huge difference

okay, if the fat dude has a double chin or something you can tell but if you have never met them and the only bare skin you can see are hands and face, then for me it's damn difficult to tell the difference...

 

[mrRuckus]

Alright...

I'm done going to the gym 3x a week and not seeing any substantial gains from it.

Time to bulk.

Dude. What? You're blaming it on the program when you admit you didn't eat properly? I mean that's all i can assume if you're saying "i'm finally eating..." and "time to bulk" (implies you weren't trying to before).

What gains did you expect from that routine if you weren't trying to bulk? Did you even gain strength?

 

[Quiksilver]

The program was fine, but my muscles don't seem to respond to low reps(5-8).

And on eating... I was eating better than 90% of the population, getting at least 150-200g of protein per day(not optimal, but not vegan either).

The amount that I was eating should have been enough for gains, but obviously it wasn't. In 6 months of hard training, my weight went from 160lbs to an astounding 158lbs. Visibly, I look marginally different. Almost not worth mentioning.
On top of that, everyone preaches periodization. I figure I'll keep the Idiots Guide to Growth workout in my back pocket for a rainy day, and keep everything fresh with a new workout.

-----

This all came about because my buddy gained 20lbs in 3 months, without setting foot into a gym, and never having even heard of a squat or deadlift. And I mean 20lbs of pure muscle. That just pointed out that I've wasted countless hours in the gym not getting anywhere, so shyt has to change.

-----

And yes, I will keep a log. For a few weeks I'll keep a food intake log as well, just to stay on point. Starting stats, pics, all that coming this weekend.

 

[Warboss Alex]

As far as I recall, you were eating chicken and vegetables all day with a couple of egg yolks and an apple, with ~1g protein/lb (not a gaining diet). You had no substantial fats or starchy carbs to provide an alternate source of energy, the result being a lowish-calorie gluceogenesis type of diet (high protein, low fat, low carb). That's why you didn't gain anything. If that's your choice of diet your protein needs to be extremely high (2-2.5g per lb) as much of it will be metabolised for fuel. Plus you said you weren't counting anything - if you don't count at least macros you have no idea what you're eating.

Your new diet looks far better. Count macros for a little while until you have a good idea of what you're getting in every day.

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by Espi
Those are all great foods, but be sure to hit Mcd's a few times each week; don't eat too cleanly. You need some occasional dead calories to fill your physique.

How about some supps? Creatine? Multi? Fish/flax oil? C? Whey?

DEFINITELY purchase a quality whey and/or casein protein supplement. I recommend Prolab's N-Large. Cheap and effective. Add whole milk and ice cream to your protein shake, and you've got 1,000 instant calories.

What do you mean by "dead calories to fill physique"?

I take supps, believe me. I stopped a two weeks ago and focused entirely on real foods, trying to flesh out the diet so I wouldnt have to rely on supps. like i have been guilty of for awhile.

Right now I'm stocked with tubs of:
multivitamin
vitamin c
zinc
calcium+magnesium
flaxseed oil
cod liver oil
whey isolate
creatine ethyl
glutamine
bcaa
and a thermogenic

there couldn't possibly be anything i need to add to that, but if there is, im all ears.

 

[EFFORT]

totally agree with the weight gainer and fast food 2-3 times a week

 

[EFFORT]

6 months of training with nothing to show for it is really bad as DC would say you f*cked up. 6months with no gains means your doing something really really wrong. Which is your eating, YOUR NOT EATING ENOUGH FOOD TO GROW. I also don't understand that volume training your getting into. Just do the good old starting strength routine and approach your eating with the intensity you would for a 20 rep squat and you'll see some good gains.


Something you can do is eat a double whoopers from burger king (without the cheese, and extra stuff) with 2 serving of whey for 3 different meals, so you'd be eating 3 double whoopers a day. Then have 2 meals be 6-10 eggs mixed in a quarter or so of a weight gainer shake (you can add whey to your gainer shake too since there not usually high in protein) . Then for your last meal you can eat up on tuna, fish oil, and veggies really hard. Also carry a bag of nuts with you for the whole day.

Obviously thats not that pretty of an eating plan and it wouldn't be the best for long term but 4 months of that wouldn't kill you and you'd be in the 200-210 range with a lot of muscle doing one of the basic routines i have in the Where to start post.

 

[Warboss Alex]

I would put the fast food in the post-workout period so the calories are best used for growth.

Warning: you will experience fat gain with this but also good muscular gains.

 

[EFFORT]

Yeah there would def be some fat gain which would probably keep you and most people from doing it but if your really worried you could just swap the whooper meals for lean ground beef and oats or potatoes. Also use your basic fat prevention measures (low intensity morning cardio for 1 hour probably daily in that situation, green tea, carb cut offs)

 

[Warboss Alex]

Yeah there would def be some fat gain which would probably keep you and most people from doing it

and this is why many people hold back their gains.. if fat gain is an issue I'd keep it to one cheat meal a week and incorporate high(er) carb days instead.

not that I'm one to talk, I just 3 of those B+J's 'Wiches.

 

[Quiksilver]

Keep in mind my body has endomorphic tendencies...


About the Mcdonalds thing... If it's a 3day split workout, would going there as a postworkout meal for each be a good idea?

The thing is, my body puts on fat easier than most people, so the diet I've been using for the last while hasn't been totally unjustified.

-----

What should I use to measure progress? Time? Weight? bf%?

 

[Warboss Alex]

The thing is, my body puts on fat easier than most people, so the diet I've been using for the last while hasn't been totally unjustified.

It is totally unjustified since it netted you no gains. Looking through your workouts from your log you were gaining strength just fine, you simply weren't eating enough to support muscle growth.

As for endomorphic tendencies, if you got ripped then you're not that endomorphic.. A lot of people think they gain fat easily when in reality it's insufficient cardio and a crappy diet. Not saying that's the case with you but if you don't do your cardio, carb timing etc you will get fat, simply.

The post-workout junk works great for gaining weight, but you will gain some fat as well (high insulin levels + high levels of fat). If it's post-workout then a good deal of these calories will be used for muscular growth however. You could always start out cautiously and then increase junk/calories as you go. In fact I'd always start cautiously to see how 'loose' your diet can be by experimenting and adding calories gradually, rather than including junk regularly.

If you believe you are endomorphic then you should post your daily diet and be really anal about counting. That doesn't mean don't have things like ketchup, mayo etc, I'm not talking about a tuna and brown rice diet. I'm just saying you need a degree of precision 90% of the time.

I generally disagree with whole milk, junk, weight gainer etc IF bodyfat is a concern (especially for an endomorph). If you don't care about fat gain then a true 'bulk' diet (with cardio, digestive enzymes, nutrient partitioning through food combinations) is the best way to gain weight (muscle plus some fat). It's really down to you. If you get fatter than you like to be, you will have to diet the fat off some time. If you know how to do this without losing muscle then go for it. I've always said that bulk/cut cycles are fine IF you can control them (i.e. minimal fat gain, muscle loss).

 

[EFFORT]

and this is why many people hold back their gains.. if fat gain is an issue I'd keep it to one cheat meal a week and incorporate high(er) carb days instead.

not that I'm one to talk, I just 3 of those B+J's 'Wiches.

LOL i just had a triple burger from Wendy's shhh don't tell IA.

I hope i'm not misleading anyone here reading with this fast food thing. (I think alex's post cleared it up if there was) So many people worry about fat and to me fat gain is such a small concern because losing fat is easier than adding mass generally since mass gain =massive eating (which is not easy), fat loss just lowering carb numbers and hitting cardio.

 

[Warboss Alex]

LOL i just had a triple burger from Wendy's shhh don't tell IA.

I hope i'm not misleading anyone here reading with this fast food thing. (I think alex's post cleared it up if there was) So many people worry about fat and to me fat gain is such a small concern because losing fat is easier than adding mass generally since mass gain =massive eating (which is not easy), fat loss just lowering carb numbers and hitting cardio.

Personally I think most people should intelligently 'bulk' up to 200lbs or thereabouts (depending on height higher or lower bodyweights) and accept a little fat gain simply to get their strength and size base down quickly. Then they can mess around with recompositions to strip away the fat and still gain.. although it will depend on the individual and their goals. I assume everyone wants to look like a small tank more or less (without being freaky big).

 

[mrRuckus]

The program was fine, but my muscles don't seem to respond to low reps(5-8).

Even if you are primarily slow twitch, which you very likely aren't, you still have plenty of fast twitch fibres ready and willing to grow so zero growth and blaming it on a rep range is silly especially at the level you are.

And you didn't answer.. did you gain strength? If you gained strength and didn't see muscle growth you simply did not eat enough. And eating better than 90% of the population means nothing. Eating only 200g of protein and pretty much clean is probably getting less total calories than they do even if the calories they do get are crap.

 

[Quiksilver]

Didn't know you asked a question... In that case, yes, I did gain strength. Main lifts went up. Heck, all lifts improved drastically, the only exercises I've almost maxed on are freakin leg extensions and calf raises.

Numbers as of now:

Squat: 285 x 8 x 2
DL: 295 x 5 x 2
Bench(DB): 150 x 8 x 3

I just switched to BB bench because--apparently--getting your db bench numbers up means fvckall as far as bb numbers go. I thought I'd be able to jump into BB at 170-185 range, but no, DB bench was effing useless for that. Perhaps put a little meat on triceps and upper chest but wasn't worth it.

--

Even if you are primarily slow twitch, which you very likely aren't, you still have plenty of fast twitch fibres ready and willing to grow so zero growth and blaming it on a rep range is silly especially at the level you are.

I'm most definitely fast twitch. All the sports I excell at are fast-twitch, and my 40 time is remarkable for my size and leg length, although not ridiculous, still shouts to me that my muscles do have fast-twitch tendencies.

-----

To clarify, aesthetics have gone right out the window for awhile. I figure that I have PLENTY of time to look pretty, so I may as well get leagues ahead of the competition by accepting the unacceptable(body fat) right now.

I have no problem cutting, its just that I don't like wasting time. The notion that I spent 5-6 months hitting the gym religiously 3x a week, and doing a minor recomp + minimal muscle gains, is just terrible. It's at the point where I don't care about aesthetics at all. The rest of the site has helped my personality develop, so an extra ~5% bf shouldnt affect anything.

Truth be told, I saw a pic of a dude who was pretty husky at about 200lbs cut down to 175-180lbs and look ripped as fvck. Heck, he probably put less effort into training as I did, but had his diet and patience dialed in.

As long as there's substantial muscle gains, I'm confident that body fat gains are the least of my concerns, since I now have a base understanding of how dieting(not just down), works.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Didn't know you asked a question... In that case, yes, I did gain strength. Main lifts went up. Heck, all lifts improved drastically, the only exercises I've almost maxed on are freakin leg extensions and calf raises.

If you had drastic strength gains you should have had drastic muscle gains, you simply didn't eat! The routine worked fine for you. You simply were 160lbs, wanted to be 180, and instead of eating like you were 190 to get to 180, you ate like you were 140. Your numbers are not bad at all, you should have seen significant muscular gains. But some people don't fathom just how much food you have to eat to gain - now you know!

I just switched to BB bench because--apparently--getting your db bench numbers up means fvckall as far as bb numbers go. I thought I'd be able to jump into BB at 170-185 range, but no, DB bench was effing useless for that. Perhaps put a little meat on triceps and upper chest but wasn't worth it.

You can't expect to have much carry-over if you gained no muscle. DB work is awesome for BB carry-over in most cases.

I have no problem cutting, its just that I don't like wasting time. The notion that I spent 5-6 months hitting the gym religiously 3x a week, and doing a minor recomp + minimal muscle gains, is just terrible. It's at the point where I don't care about aesthetics at all. The rest of the site has helped my personality develop, so an extra ~5% bf shouldnt affect anything.

Gaining 5% bodyfat is outright dumb. That's getting fat for the hell of it. A couple of notches maybe but that's not a bulking up diet, that's a fattening up diet. Mark my words, you gain 5% bodyfat along with your muscle and you will hate yourself. Seriously, do you know what that means to increase your bodyfat percentage by that much? That means gaining more fat than muscle. It will be a huge NEGATIVE visual difference. You say you're not interested in aesthetics but your previous posts on this site say you are.. I advise you to not throw caution to the wind in this way. Of course it's your choice, and you will get your best muscle gains by also putting on substantial fat, but you can get close to optimal muscle gains by gaining a minimum of fat. But, it's your choice.

 

[Quiksilver]

Gaining 5% bodyfat is outright dumb. That's getting fat for the hell of it. A couple of notches maybe but that's not a bulking up diet, that's a fattening up diet. Mark my words, you gain 5% bodyfat along with your muscle and you will hate yourself. Seriously, do you know what that means to increase your bodyfat percentage by that much? That means gaining more fat than muscle. It will be a huge NEGATIVE visual difference. You say you're not interested in aesthetics but your previous posts on this site say you are.. I advise you to not throw caution to the wind in this way. Of course it's your choice, and you will get your best muscle gains by also putting on substantial fat, but you can get close to optimal muscle gains by gaining a minimum of fat. But, it's your choice.

That's good to hear. I was bracing my mind for substantial fat gain.

 

[Warboss Alex]

That's good to hear. I was bracing my mind for substantial fat gain.

You will make your best and fastest muscle/weight/strength gains by gaining fat as well.. just remember it will have to come off sometime. You can make damn good gains without gaining much, if any, fat (but this will be slower). Again, it's your choice.. I would focus on slower muscle gain but that's just me.