Problems with disrespect from wife

[backbreaker]

i was going to say that yesterday.... when y ou actually start looking at divorce, either way it goes down, it doesn't look pretty. Get ready to get ****ed by the long **** of the court system

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Hiroshima,
"Peace in our Time?",bit like that,you have won a significant Victory,I think we have all played a part in this......
"Truthfully I don't know if my marriage can be saved. I have a sh1tload of resentment for her now that she's betrayed me emotionally by making this guy her best friend. And I know that she's going to feel a lot of resentment for me and what I have just demanded from her."This is not the time for some belated beating of the chest.....To be magnanimous in your triumph is the best way to go,that way you preserve the infrastructure....Look at Julius Caesor and Alaxander,both conciliatory and kind they ruled harmonious Empires,Look at your own great Nations attitude to Japan and Germany,there is in macrocosm a lesson there....The alternative,to be a Genghiz Khan or Tamarlane and reduce your Enemy to nothing.Effective,but no way to be loved....Still remember Wifey has an agenda,it has just been put on hold for a few years while the kids grow up..the advice from us experienced if bitter divorced Guys is "Praise God but keep your Powder dry".

 

[jophil28]

I learned a few relationships ago that you cannot successfully threaten, debate, persuade or convince a woman to go against her whims and desires.
It makes the situation worse, everytime.
Women have been told in many subtle and even blatant ways that they can "have it all" just because they want it.
A man "laying down the law" and setting restrictions on his woman's 'freedoms' is a last gasp situation and usually includes an implied ultimatum. And it rarely works in it's intended fashion.
She may comply initiatlly, but she will deeply resent you ..
And we all know how women work though their resentments.

The problem here cannot be solved by forcibly reminding her of her obligations and her marriage vows. If they were a factor of importance for her she would not be out singing in bars with her new "friend".
As much as it niggles me sometimes, I have to go with one of RT's beliefs that this situation is one of "desire", or lack of it .
She wants to be with her guitarist MORE than she wants to be home with Hubby and the ruggies.
In a way, she is placing a higher value on her singing career and her relationship with guitar hero than her marriage and her home life.
IF we follow this line of reasoning, we find our way back to our commonly expressed belief that the solution is to be found in Heroshima raising his 'value" in her eyes, and her ('gina), so that she wants to be with him MORE that she wants to be a Loretta Lynn clone.

Just a thought.

 

[squirrels]

Yes, the kids are missing mommy.

Yes, I've been to their shows and taken the kids to their shows.

Yes, I've hung out with him and even played a few songs with him.

She's not working 10 hour days. She's working 10 hours a WEEK.

My mistake...I thought you said she was working 10 hour days at home.

Bible-Belt is probably right, unfortunately. And my guess would be if she's not out screwing around with THIS guy, there's the possibility that he may be "covering" for her.

There was another member on here...not gonna out the guy...but he got married and had a kid and his wife started becoming very distant...always either working or hanging out at her girlfriend's house "playing X-box". He too was complaining about his wife never having time for him or their kid.

I suggested to him that his girl was cheating on him and using the whole "playing X-box over my friend's house" crap as a cover for it...he denied it was even possible until he found out about it for himself. And this was a VERY respected member on here, not someone who was an easily-fooled chump.

I haven't seen him post on this thread yet...I don't know if he's even still on this forum.

Coming at her yelling and demanding is not going to help...she will call you 'controlling' and try to find excuses to get away from you.

Coming at her begging and pleading will look even worse...she will consider you weak and walk all over you.

Everyone else is right...you are kind of f'd here. What's worse, your kids are kind of f'd. I'm not sure whether there were warning signs you should have seen before having kids or whether it was just a complete 180 that you never could have seen coming.

The problem you have now is that the courts typically favor putting the kids with their mother, even if that may not be the best place for them. If you think they would be better off with you, you may have an uphill battle on your hands.

But don't turn it into a "battle" just yet. Sit down and just drop some cold reason on her. It's not about you being jealous of "the other guy", it's about you needing a wife and the kids needing a mother...and she needs to decide if she can be that at this point in her life.

If she can, then she needs to do what's right.

If she can't, then you have to be willing to go down the hard road in front of you.

As a man, sometimes you have to learn lessons the hard way. The ones I feel sorry for are your children. For that reason alone, if you DO need to break up with her, you should do it in as friendly a way possible so as to make sure the kids have a positive mommy and daddy figure in their lives.

Don't give up yet...maybe she just needs to come back to reality. But come to the table "with an olive branch in one hand and a gun in the other"...if that makes sense. Let her choose the life she wants and let her know in no uncertain terms what can and cannot come with that choice. And MAINTAIN RESOLVE. There is no option "C".

Good luck, man.

 

[sodbuster]

IF she mentions divorce,say{with a smile on your lips and in your heart}"good for you,I'm glad you finally decided you could do it on your own". THAT is NOT the answer she expected to hear. She'll go off to think about it,wonder WHY you are so happy[does he have someone else?,can he do better than ME?etc,etc,etc.]She will come back wanting to work on the marriage.Put her on probation and make her earn it back[she's forgotten how hard she had to work to catch you the first time]

 

[hithard]

Now what to do. Well for one thing stop the bitc.hing. You are only reinforcing her idea that you are the dream killer in the relationship. You will only drive her out faster by giving her ultimatums.

give your wife some space and room to move. No use keeping her caged if she was only going to run off anyway. As hard as it is keep positive - don't whine or biatch about the situation to her, just hold a strong frame and let it unfold.

All you have to offer her at the moment is a jail sentence.
What did the ultimatum deliver?
Resentment on her part. Possible secrecy, which makes it even more naughty and exhilarating for her. She is lining you up as the enemy.

You are bargaining from a position of weakness. You have more or less become indistinguishable from the household furniture and just as disposable. Not only that but now if the relationship does break down you are now in a worse position. And further more you are in the wrong frame of mind to be making demands. You are scrambling and it is plain to see. You are doing what every man through the ages has done almost to the letter.
The best option I see for you right now.
Go find your wife say something along the lines of
"You are my wife, I want you to be happy - if this is what you want then I trust you (maybe "but I don't trust other guys/ outside influences?)"

Maybe someone can rephrase it, cheese it down and add more commitment hooks in there.

This ain't to beta you out, it is to disarm her. Since you laid down the rules and demands (so she knows what you want), it's time to change her perception of you to lighter tones. Also you need to get out of your own combative mindset and calm the whole situation down. You pretty much have nothing further to lose so loosen your grip on her. If you have to demand and control a chick in this manner then in my opinion it is better to let go and let go of the stress. It will happen again in the future. What are you going to do then?
You need to train her to be trustworthy or ensure she is already trustworthy. Caging someone only hides their true persona in these situations. Better to find out what hand you have been dealt. And if you have chosen well
Secondly if you are heading for divorce then at least you leave on better terms. Also you get more time to prepare yourself. You do not need to add more drama to your life right now.

The other thing you are doing is being too wrapped up in her world. Too worried about what she is doing, where she is, why she is late, or how she is being a bad mum, wife etc. I know it's easier said then done but suck it up. All it is doing is bringing you stress and creating that aura of negativity. And you know what.... Fu.ck all that $hit who cares at this moment. Go play with the kids, go be a dad, go show them how much you love them. All this other stuff is just bull$hit that passes us by. But what gets ingrained in children’s memories stays with them. Don't be that douche bag that seeks his wife’s love first while the kids wait for your attention. Trust me they notice.

Forget the upper hand the arguments the little snide remarks and all the rest.
Your jealousy is something you need to break for you to progress.

Let your wife figure out what she is doing. You stick to the plan - no bit.ching or moaning, workout, be a good dad, get a life, work out what you want and make the steps.
Getting tired of typing/ Whatever else I said before.

 

[heroshima]

Thanks for all the tips everybody.

I had a firm but calm discussion with her last night and asked her if she was willing to fill the role of wife and mother knowing that it includes limits and responsibilities and she said "yes". And although the conversation brought up the existing resentment and the possibility of huge resentment in the future it did lead her to her own conclusion... she said "I guess I fvcked up".

I am working very hard to be calm and stay positive about myself.

I need to break the jealousy and give her some room to think about this.

 

[Colossus]

Heroshima-

After reading some more of your posts I get a better idea of your situation and where you are sitting right now with your wife. From an outsider's perspective, it seems to me that she is no longer happy being a wife and mother. Not to imply she doesn't love her kids, but there is something in HER that is not satisfied and this other guy is assuaging that itch. I think your jealousy is warranted and not at all inappropriate, although it will eat you up eventually. Sounds like you are moving to the next stage in your mind---accepting and planning.

The one big bummer here (from the legal point of view) is that you have kids. I am very doubtful that a favorable outcome could come of a divorce, although it can rarely happen. I just know from personal witness that men in these situations tend to get screwed. Happened to my father with his last wife----she decided she didnt want to be married and deal with a blended family anymore (she had her own kids from her previous marriage), left my dad despite his objections, and he still ended up paying her alimony for some years. This was on the grounds that he was the primary breadwinner and she wouldn't be able to "adapt" without his support for a while. Absolute rubbish and to this day I will not speak to her. She even got part of his pension.

Anyways, I'm not qualified for legal counsel. Some of the older guys could give you better advice. Just keep your side of the street clean, and dont make anymore ultimatums. I would bet my car that she is going to resent you for your last exchange big time. You still did the right thing, in my opinion, but this is an internal issue with HER. Not all that uncommon these days....mid life women deciding they no longer want the wife and mother bit.

 

[Colossus]

I need to break the jealousy and give her some room to think about this.

Good plan.

 

[heroshima]

Guys, do me a favor and leave divorce out of the discussion for now.

I realize that is a possibility but she has said that she would stop playing music with this guy if needed because "her family is important" to her. I know that it will create a huge amount of resentment but she appears to at least have some amount of respect for me or at least the decision she made to marry me and have children.

I absolutely realize that I have to raise my value and that she has lost some amount of interest in me and respect for our relationship.

Let's just leave divorce out of it for now. Thanks.

 

[Warrior74]

Thanks for all the tips everybody.

I had a firm but calm discussion with her last night and asked her if she was willing to fill the role of wife and mother knowing that it includes limits and responsibilities and she said "yes". And although the conversation brought up the existing resentment and the possibility of huge resentment in the future it did lead her to her own conclusion... she said "I guess I fvcked up".

I am working very hard to be calm and stay positive about myself.

I need to break the jealousy and give her some room to think about this.

This needs to be the last overt conversation about this with her. Now it's time to start applying some game, and doing the things you were advised to do with you own life.

 

[heroshima]

This needs to be the last overt conversation about this with her. Now it's time to start applying some game, and doing the things you were advised to do with you own life.

This is exactly what is happening.

Minor victory today! I've been working on being strong and thought a lot about what people have said about spending time with my kids.

I decided to skip her gig this weekend with said guitarist and take the kids to some hotspring pools with waterslides. I told my wife and that I was going to take the kids and her reaction was awesome.

Her: I find it interesting that you are taking the kids away when I have a gig. Are you trying to show me what life would be like if you left?
Me (faltering slightly, decided to Agree & Amplify): Ha, Ha, Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. You hit the nail right on the head! Ha, Ha

The rest of the conversation went well. I could tell that she was thinking about what was going on in my head instead of the other way around.

I have to thank you guys for all the posts and for the other information I've found. I realize this is the beginning of a new journey for me. I'm actually getting excited about what life has in store for me. Whether it involves my wife or not.

 

[jophil28]

I decided to skip her gig this weekend with said guitarist and take the kids to some hotspring pools with waterslides. I told my wife and that I was going to take the kids and her reaction was awesome.

In my opinion you need to stop going to her gigs entirely.
IF you continue to go "sometimes" you are sending her the message that you are still willing to support her musical career "sometimes" -the same career that is causing you so much angst.
I realize that the 'moderation' mindset is popular with modern behavioral science folk, but it is an hallucination when behavior reaches the problematic stage..
BY attending even another one of her gigs you are tacitly endorsing her continuing involvement.
I believe that it is vital that we men demonstrate steelly consistency in our actions when we are battling a powerful foe ...and her bloated ego needs are your foe right now.

Remember that she really liked things the way they were up until you complained, and she will not give up her performing career without a struggle.
She is having the time of her life,with you playing roles of soccer Dad and domestic servant while she is living out her ego fantasy on stage. She does not want to let that go just because you want her to.

You have made your feelings known sufficiently - time to act accordingly.

 

[squirrels]

This is exactly what is happening.

Minor victory today! I've been working on being strong and thought a lot about what people have said about spending time with my kids.

I decided to skip her gig this weekend with said guitarist and take the kids to some hotspring pools with waterslides. I told my wife and that I was going to take the kids and her reaction was awesome.

Her: I find it interesting that you are taking the kids away when I have a gig. Are you trying to show me what life would be like if you left?
Me (faltering slightly, decided to Agree & Amplify): Ha, Ha, Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. You hit the nail right on the head! Ha, Ha

The rest of the conversation went well. I could tell that she was thinking about what was going on in my head instead of the other way around.

I have to thank you guys for all the posts and for the other information I've found. I realize this is the beginning of a new journey for me. I'm actually getting excited about what life has in store for me. Whether it involves my wife or not.

Good for you, man! A "gig" is no place for the kids anyway. Show her how much FUN she's missing out on with her children while she's off playing music with this dude.

I'd say keep doing fun stuff with the kids...inviting mom to join, of course, but not "insisting". Maybe that was part of your problem...that you were doing too much "sitting around" with the children and as a result, BOTH of you lost track of how much fun parenting can be. You said it yourself...you don't need to be sitting around the house while she's out playing music. Let her wonder about what her family is doing without her...and how many single ladies are admiring your fatherly qualities.

Good luck with whatever happens.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I had a firm but calm discussion with her last night and asked her if she was willing to fill the role of wife and mother knowing that it includes limits and responsibilities and she said "yes". And although the conversation brought up the existing resentment and the possibility of huge resentment in the future it did lead her to her own conclusion... she said "I guess I fvcked up".

This was negotiating for her desire.

Her: I find it interesting that you are taking the kids away when I have a gig. Are you trying to show me what life would be like if you left?
Me (faltering slightly, decided to Agree & Amplify): Ha, Ha, Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. You hit the nail right on the head! Ha, Ha

This was her confirmation of your negotiating for her desire.

Both come from a point of weakness because, as JOPHIL stated, her desire is for the guitarist not you. My prediction is she'll cheat (or has already) with this guy, but since you're already negotiating from a point of weakness, she's already begun foreshadowing the excuses and rationales she's planning to use when that confrontation comes in hopes that you'll be Mr. Understanding when the fantasy is complete. You on the other hand are already trying to plant the seeds of a being good father in the hopes that this will prove your worth to her and bring her around, or at least to convince your kids in the future that it was all mommy's fault for your divorce and you did the "right thing".

Always remember this, ultimatums are declarations of powerlessness. Essentially the message is that you are so utterly out of options that you felt the need to overtly tell her "do this or else." Obligation will NEVER be true desire.

This will probably come off as overly harsh, in fact it's pretty ƒucked up, but the truth is no amount of filling the role of the 'good Dad' will make her natural desire for you any greater. She's making comparisons right now; one is a faithful, supportive, committed husband she's spent her 20's and 30's playing house with and the other is a bad boy musician getting social proof and DHV on the same stage as she is. Which guy do you think makes her hot? Which guy is she fantasizing about? I'm not excusing her, I'm just saying realize what you're involved in.

 

[heroshima]

This was negotiating for her desire.

I wanted to clearly outline what I expect. The ball is in her court.

I'm done with that line of thinking now.

This will probably come off as overly harsh, in fact it's pretty ƒucked up, but the truth is no amount of filling the role of the 'good Dad' will make her natural desire for you any greater. She's making comparisons right now; one is a faithful, supportive, committed husband she's spent her 20's and 30's playing house with and the other is a bad boy musician getting social proof and DHV on the same stage as she is. Which guy do you think makes her hot? Which guy is she fantasizing about? I'm not excusing her, I'm just saying realize what you're involved in.

I'm not trying to fill the role of 'good dad'. I already am a good dad. I just want to have some fun and being around the house with her hasn't been.

I get what you are saying. I know I'm behind the ball. I got my ass kicked. Time to get up and get on with life.

Time to move on, improve myself and up my value. For me.

 

[jophil28]

This will probably come off as overly harsh, in fact it's pretty ƒucked up, but the truth is no amount of filling the role of the 'good Dad' will make her natural desire for you any greater. She's making comparisons right now; one is a faithful, supportive, committed husband she's spent her 20's and 30's playing house with and the other is a bad boy musician getting social proof and DHV on the same stage as she is. Which guy do you think makes her hot? Which guy is she fantasizing about? I'm not excusing her, I'm just saying realize what you're involved in.

^ Yes and unfortunately, this had to be said. ^

 

[Boilermaker]

I wanted to clearly outline what I expect. The ball is in her court.

I'm done with that line of thinking now.


I'm not trying to fill the role of 'good dad'. I already am a good dad. I just want to have some fun and being around the house with her hasn't been.

I get what you are saying. I know I'm behind the ball. I got my ass kicked. Time to get up and get on with life.

Time to move on, improve myself and up my value. For me.

Watch the movie "American Beauty". I think it will be inspiring for you at this stage.

Good luck.

 

[jophil28]

Time to move on, improve myself and up my value. For me.

How about you report back in a week and let us know what you have done," For me."

 

[heroshima]

How about you report back in a week and let us know what you have done," For me."

Deal.