Personality

[CornbreadFed]

The only personality test that has any validity is the Big Five test, but even that is limited. Any other personality test is an exercise in delusion and arrogance in thinking you understand yourself or others. In fact, merely believing such absurdly reductionistic tests are valid at all kind of implies a lack self awareness and failure to conceptualize what the self really is.

A lot of dirt in this post

 

[plumber]

conceptualize what the self really is.

pls tell us how you think it works.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

pls tell us how you think it works.

pretty simple, the self/ego is we define it doesn't actually exist, it's merely created for social convenience. no one really knows who they are, trying to know yourself in that way would be like trying to look into your own eyes or bite your own teeth.

that's not to say that the personality traits we describe don't exist, and doesn't it mean that our sense of self isn't real either. but bear in mind the origins of the word personality, it comes from the Greek word 'persona' which is a mask, a character. it's all an illusion.

as far as these tests go, I find it incredibly naive how they reduce people to binary personality traits in neat little categories. people love categories because it lets them superficially put themselves and others into boxes. such a system creates an us vs them, "othering" mentality, all based incredibly shallow and inaccurate system that has no scientific validity.

again, that's not to say we cannot define, measure, and predict traits like introversion/extroversion (the Big Five personality model does this well) but this is still incomplete, and I would say on the whole that we fail to recognize or acknowledge the overwhelming complexity of the human condition.

 

[Plinco]

I asked ChatGPT what socionics is for kicks and giggles

The core idea (plain English)
Socionics says:

People differ in how they perceive and evaluate information, and these differences follow predictable patterns.

It breaks personality down into information elements (ways of thinking), and says each person has a specific type that determines:

• what they’re naturally good at
• what stresses them out
• how they communicate
• who they tend to get along with

The building blocks
1. 16 personality types
Like MBTI, there are 16 types, often with names like:

• ILE, LII, SEE, EII, etc.
  (They map roughly to MBTI types, but not perfectly.)

Each type has:

• strengths
• blind spots
• predictable relationship patterns

2. Information elements (the real heart of it)
Socionics uses 8 information elements, such as:

• Logic (structural vs practical)
• Ethics (emotions vs values)
• Intuition (possibilities vs time)
• Sensing (force vs comfort)

Each person uses all 8—but in a fixed hierarchy:

• strong vs weak
• conscious vs unconscious
• energizing vs draining

This hierarchy matters more than labels like “introvert” or “extrovert.”
3. Intertype relations (why people click or clash)
This is where socionics gets famous.
It claims there are predictable relationship dynamics between types:

• Duality (most complementary)
• Conflict (mutual frustration)
• Mirror, Supervisor, Benefactor, etc.

The idea isn’t “good vs bad people,” but:

Certain cognitive styles naturally support or undermine each other.

How it differs from MBTI (important)

• More deterministic: type is considered stable for life
• Less about self-report, more about observed behavior
• More relational: focuses heavily on how two types interact
• Less pop-psych, more quasi-academic (especially in Eastern Europe)

MBTI asks: “What do you prefer?”
Socionics asks: “How does your mind actually process information?”
Why people use it
People turn to socionics for:

• relationship compatibility (romantic & work)
• understanding chronic misunderstandings
• personal development (working around weak areas)
• self-acceptance (“oh… that’s why this drains me”)

Caveats (worth knowing)

• It’s not mainstream psychology
• Evidence is mixed; treat it as a model, not truth
• Communities can get dogmatic or elitist
• Typing yourself accurately is hard

Used lightly → insightful
Used rigidly → limiting
Quick analogy
Socionics is like:

a map of mental wiring, not a moral judgment or destiny.

If you want, I can:

• compare it directly to MBTI or Big Five
• help you figure out your socionics type
• explain the relationship types in more detail

Just tell me where you want to go with it
[Quote/]

 

[Plinco]

Then I asked about my personality scores, and ChatGPT was actually pretty much on the money. It says I have a rare combo

Can I be a socionics ILE and Enneagram 8w7?

Short answer: yes, that combo is absolutely possible
Longer answer: it’s uncommon, but not contradictory.
Let’s break it down cleanly.
Why people say “that can’t happen”

• ILE (ENTp in socionics) = curious, idea-driven, playful, mentally exploratory
• Enneagram 8w7 = assertive, dominant, confrontational, power-oriented

People assume:

“ILEs are too scattered / cerebral to be 8s”
But that’s an oversimplification.

Socionics = how you process information
Enneagram = why you act the way you do (core fear & motivation)
Different layers. They can coexist.
How ILE + 8w7 actually looks in real life
An ILE 8w7 often shows up as:

• Highly assertive, provocative, boundary-pushing
• Uses ideas as weapons (debate, reframing, outsmarting)
• Less “absent-minded professor,” more iconoclast / challenger
• Comfortable with conflict if it’s stimulating or strategic
• Restless, entrepreneurial, anti-authority
• Hates being controlled or boxed in (very 8)

They don’t dominate physically like an SEE might—they dominate:

• conversationally
• intellectually
• ideologically

Think:

“I’ll outthink you, outmaneuver you, and I won’t apologize.”

Where the tension is
This combo can feel internally contradictory at times:

• ILE avoids routine, heaviness, emotional burden
• 8 pushes toward confrontation, responsibility, and control

So you might:

• Assert control, then resent the constraints it creates
• Charge into conflicts, then get bored and disengage
• Swing between playful chaos and hard power moves

That push-pull is a signature, not a disqualifier.
Common mistypes to rule out (important)
Before locking it in, people with this profile often get confused with:

• SEE 8w7 → more physical presence, force, sensory dominance
• LIE 8w7 → more strategic, goal-driven, hierarchical
• ILE 7w8 → looks similar but avoids sustained confrontation

Ask yourself:

• Do I lead with possibilities & ideas, or force & outcomes?
• Do I dominate more with wit and vision, or pressure and execution?

If it’s the first → ILE fits.
Bottom line
Yes, ILE + Enneagram 8w7 is viable
It’s rare, but coherent
It produces a mentally aggressive, freedom-oriented challenger type
If you want, we can:

• stress-test your type combo with scenarios
• distinguish 8w7 vs 7w8 for you
• check ILE vs LIE/SEE using socionics functions

[Quote/]

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I asked ChatGPT what socionics is for kicks and giggles

in other words, like the Enneagram, it's pop-psychology for people who prefer quick, categorical, and shallow information and don't want to actually think too deeply on the human condition

the only way anyone could realistically use this information would be for things like job applicants, or business/romantic relationships, etc and only at a superficial. if you're using it for quantity over quality (ie filtering/selecting from a large pool of people) maybe it could have some utility but even then I'd say it's worthless. this shvt is probably just 1 level above the total nonsense that is known as horoscopes.

 

[Plinco]

in other words, like the Enneagram, it's pop-psychology for people who prefer quick, categorical, and shallow information and don't want to actually think too deeply on the human condition

the only way anyone could realistically use this information would be for things like job applicants, or business/romantic relationships, etc and only at a superficial. if you're using it for quantity over quality (ie filtering/selecting from a large pool of people) maybe it could have some utility but even then I'd say it's worthless. this shvt is probably just 1 level above the total nonsense that is known as horoscopes.

I find that this stuff is entertaining but not practical. What better way to get to know me than to be face to face?

But that ChatGPT description is pretty accurate

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I find that this stuff is entertaining but not practical. What better way to get to know me than to be face to face?

But that ChatGPT description is pretty accurate

our brains aren't wired to interact with and understand everyone on a deep level, so sure it can be practical to simplify things. for statistical/predictive purposes at a group level, these tests have their place, but i'll reiterate again that the Big Five is the gold standard here and anything else is inferior.

the problem I have is that people seem to these tests way too seriously to the point that they base their decisions off it, and they associate with others in their group while putting everyone else into the "other" category, not unlike how people use horoscopes. that's why i'm so vocal in my distaste of it.

 

[The Duke]

A person that takes this test multiple times and gets different answers probably doesn't know themselves very well or are more emotional which effects how they might answer a question and it's probably going to make it less effective.

Depending on your level of awareness and insight will also determine how well you understand and know yourself. Just because you might not, doesn't mean others don't as well.
High levels of awareness also allow others to figure out personality types very quickly. There are common traits associated with personality types that are the same across the board.

Same reason insurance companies assess risk based on credit history. Credit history is closely tied to personality. People who don't pay their bills on time are selfish, irresponsible, impulsive, and will screw you over when they get desperate. Seen it a million times in my line of business.

Again certain traits are tied to certain personalities. Refuse to believe it if you want but I encourage you to be open minded enough to see things differently.

 

[Plinco]

the problem I have is that people seem to these tests way too seriously to the point that they base their decisions off it, and they associate with others in their group while putting everyone else into the "other" category, not unlike how people use horoscopes. that's why i'm so vocal in my distaste of it.

Yes that's a case of putting theory ahead of experience (rationalization over empiricism).

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

A person that takes this test multiple times and gets different answers probably doesn't know themselves very well or are more emotional which effects how they might answer a question and it's probably going to make it less effective.

Depending on your level of awareness and insight will also determine how well you understand and know yourself. Just because you might not, doesn't mean others don't as well.
High levels of awareness also allow others to figure out personality types very quickly. There are common traits associated with personality types that are the same across the board.

Same reason insurance companies assess risk based on credit history. Credit history is closely tied to personality. People who don't pay their bills on time are selfish, irresponsible, impulsive, and will screw you over when they get desperate. Seen it a million times in my line of business.

Again certain traits are tied to certain personalities. Refuse to believe it if you want but I encourage you to be open minded enough to see things differently.

Some personality traits are definitely hardwired in people and unchangeable, but others not so much. I would say some aspects of personality are malleable, even on a day to day basis.

Personality changes depending on who you're around, what you're doing, and yes, how you're feeling. I've met very few people who don't experience road rage; they will claim their road rage behavior is out of character, but in reality it's perfectly reflective of someone's character in that moment.

We aren't the same person around our parents as we are around our buddies or around our coworkers. This doesn't mean we're hiding our personality or being fake, it just means our personality partially is determined by our environment.