BeExcellent
Master Don Juan
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Hold on. Gotta read the OP……
"I just moved here from Florida."
That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?
She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."
She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.
I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.
Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.
Penis Envy is real
- Thread starter Pandora
- Start date
"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
BeExcellent
Master Don Juan
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Ok. First let me say this. Anyone around here who’s been paying attention to things I contribute knows my father was a BAD ASS. And I respected him deeply and loved him deeply. When he died the adult Sunday school class he had taught for 35 years (you read that correctly, 35 years threw a lovely reception after his funeral.
The Texas prosecutor (married 66 years to his only wife) and his wife drove 9 hours one way to pay their respects to my dad…this couple was 86 years of age and she had breast cancer! They socialized for a couple of hours after the service and then drove 9 hours one way home. I will never forget the immense respect that couple showed my father.
My father was a tough as nails Texan, army vet, lawyer who argued before the SCOTUS and won, and a real F’ing man. He was also a trusted friend and confidant. He never took crap off anyone, was fearlessly direct and yet loved people with great depth and great loyalty.
A Southern Baptist preacher who grew up diapers through high school with my dad and lifelong dear friend told me “Honey, yo daddy was a REAL man. A GREAT man. A privilege to know man. I would CRAWL to your daddy’s funeral…”
So yeah. I had a great example for a strong father. And therein lies the problem. That is a very high standard few men attain in life. Many of the men in my family were of my dad’s mold, and here’s the thing. Each one picked a strong pistol of a woman, not a wallflower. These were smart, classy,educated, socially adroit women. They were a team with their men but the men led, and the women were not afraid to be spitfires on occasion if it was warranted. There was deep mutual respect but the family I grew up with were like lions with their lionesses. The women, like the lionesses were quite formidable in their own right.
No non-lions need apply.
For better or worse I am of that ilk. I have opinions, I have standards. My life has broader human experience than my
fiancé’s. He has never been married and he has no children. There are 3 things I do not take directions from him about. They are as follows:
1. How to parent
2. How to run my financial/business affairs
3. How to deal with my ex husband.
This creates some conflict from time to time. I mean if you’re a cotton farmer you have no business telling a neurosurgeon how to do brain surgery, just as the neurosurgeon has no business telling the cotton farmer when to plant. You gotta stay in your lane in areas and learn how to enjoy one another and respect one another.
I defer to my man everywhere I can and I listen in the areas where I cannot defer (because I have far more experience and expertise). And he is brilliant in his field and in his sport and I do not try to advise him there.
And sometimes he will stew quietly over something that I have no idea is a problem and then he picks a fight. In those instances I must sometimes assert my own self respect if his perception is not rooted in objective reality.
The difference in life experience is one of the big reasons I typically will not engage younger men, but his attributes make him worthy of patience as he grows, and I am youthful enough that I run circles around most men my age or older.
It’s not “penis envy” at all. It is a woman having high enough self worth to understand the power of the feminine as @Pandora said and being self aware of that essence and it’s influence & allure. I do not compete with my man. At times he requires a nudge toward his own lane on a few things, but he’s dated enough of the insecure emotional hot messes that he appreciates that I am NOT that.
And he’s got no issue leading at all, all he needs to learn is that where my affairs are concerned? He needs to learn to trust my competence and relax from giving his 2 cents 6 ways from Sunday. I do not try to tell him how to do his technical work or his sport. That will take some time but he is figuring it out, and it’s my place to be patient because I’ve chosen him just as he’s chosen me.
But he’s never run into a woman like me so it’s an adjustment. So yes. If he’s way out of line? I put my foot down. Out of love, respect & self respect.
The Texas prosecutor (married 66 years to his only wife) and his wife drove 9 hours one way to pay their respects to my dad…this couple was 86 years of age and she had breast cancer! They socialized for a couple of hours after the service and then drove 9 hours one way home. I will never forget the immense respect that couple showed my father.
My father was a tough as nails Texan, army vet, lawyer who argued before the SCOTUS and won, and a real F’ing man. He was also a trusted friend and confidant. He never took crap off anyone, was fearlessly direct and yet loved people with great depth and great loyalty.
A Southern Baptist preacher who grew up diapers through high school with my dad and lifelong dear friend told me “Honey, yo daddy was a REAL man. A GREAT man. A privilege to know man. I would CRAWL to your daddy’s funeral…”
So yeah. I had a great example for a strong father. And therein lies the problem. That is a very high standard few men attain in life. Many of the men in my family were of my dad’s mold, and here’s the thing. Each one picked a strong pistol of a woman, not a wallflower. These were smart, classy,educated, socially adroit women. They were a team with their men but the men led, and the women were not afraid to be spitfires on occasion if it was warranted. There was deep mutual respect but the family I grew up with were like lions with their lionesses. The women, like the lionesses were quite formidable in their own right.
No non-lions need apply.
For better or worse I am of that ilk. I have opinions, I have standards. My life has broader human experience than my
fiancé’s. He has never been married and he has no children. There are 3 things I do not take directions from him about. They are as follows:
1. How to parent
2. How to run my financial/business affairs
3. How to deal with my ex husband.
This creates some conflict from time to time. I mean if you’re a cotton farmer you have no business telling a neurosurgeon how to do brain surgery, just as the neurosurgeon has no business telling the cotton farmer when to plant. You gotta stay in your lane in areas and learn how to enjoy one another and respect one another.
I defer to my man everywhere I can and I listen in the areas where I cannot defer (because I have far more experience and expertise). And he is brilliant in his field and in his sport and I do not try to advise him there.
And sometimes he will stew quietly over something that I have no idea is a problem and then he picks a fight. In those instances I must sometimes assert my own self respect if his perception is not rooted in objective reality.
The difference in life experience is one of the big reasons I typically will not engage younger men, but his attributes make him worthy of patience as he grows, and I am youthful enough that I run circles around most men my age or older.
It’s not “penis envy” at all. It is a woman having high enough self worth to understand the power of the feminine as @Pandora said and being self aware of that essence and it’s influence & allure. I do not compete with my man. At times he requires a nudge toward his own lane on a few things, but he’s dated enough of the insecure emotional hot messes that he appreciates that I am NOT that.
And he’s got no issue leading at all, all he needs to learn is that where my affairs are concerned? He needs to learn to trust my competence and relax from giving his 2 cents 6 ways from Sunday. I do not try to tell him how to do his technical work or his sport. That will take some time but he is figuring it out, and it’s my place to be patient because I’ve chosen him just as he’s chosen me.
But he’s never run into a woman like me so it’s an adjustment. So yes. If he’s way out of line? I put my foot down. Out of love, respect & self respect.
BeExcellent
Master Don Juan
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I will add this to my thoughts above. My father respected very few women in his life. Not my mother, not my stepmother. He respected his great aunt, his best female friend he knew since before he married my mom, they were fraternal in their bond, his elder female first cousin, and me.
My father would show his doubts, mull over his mistakes and criticize himself with me as an audience and sounding board. He showed his humanity, his character and his flaws. I deeply appreciated this and understood that very very few people saw that side of my dad.
I am that safe space for my man too, and the trust it takes to reveal ones humanity. It takes great strength of character, and it is very bad if that trust is misplaced.
My sisters have each expressed a little jealousy of the respect my dad had for me. That respect was earned and there were times I checked my dad or called him out. He listened when I checked him because I only did so when it was necessary.
The thing my father gave me, his greatest gift, was his respect. Not his attention, not material things, but his respect. He was a tough SOB at times. And because of the way he was, is why it resonates with me to be here and do what I can to build great men. The world needs great men. Women need great men. There aren’t enough of them.
My father would show his doubts, mull over his mistakes and criticize himself with me as an audience and sounding board. He showed his humanity, his character and his flaws. I deeply appreciated this and understood that very very few people saw that side of my dad.
I am that safe space for my man too, and the trust it takes to reveal ones humanity. It takes great strength of character, and it is very bad if that trust is misplaced.
My sisters have each expressed a little jealousy of the respect my dad had for me. That respect was earned and there were times I checked my dad or called him out. He listened when I checked him because I only did so when it was necessary.
The thing my father gave me, his greatest gift, was his respect. Not his attention, not material things, but his respect. He was a tough SOB at times. And because of the way he was, is why it resonates with me to be here and do what I can to build great men. The world needs great men. Women need great men. There aren’t enough of them.
Exactly. Supplication eventually wears off once the butterflys go away. Difference is true respect and it lasts.
You can only tell if a woman truly respects you after the honeymoon period. Up to that point its supplication.
Last edited:
Pierce Manhammer
Moderator
Personally, my most significant relationships have been with women that had troubles in the past keeping guys around because of their station in life, they said that it threatened them.
I find attractive (note it’s the first adjective), sexy, intelligent and independent women irresistible - and once you show them they don’t need to lead all the time, you have them in your clutches. They want nothing more than to lie back and let someone else who is competent drive. It never fails.
And once unlocked they can be minxes, and even surprise themselves…
Unfortunately maintaining that takes a lot of energy, you have to be “on” 95% of the time.
I find attractive (note it’s the first adjective), sexy, intelligent and independent women irresistible - and once you show them they don’t need to lead all the time, you have them in your clutches. They want nothing more than to lie back and let someone else who is competent drive. It never fails.
And once unlocked they can be minxes, and even surprise themselves…
Unfortunately maintaining that takes a lot of energy, you have to be “on” 95% of the time.
"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
Barrister
Master Don Juan
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What you state here is certainly possible. It may be that there is a facade going up to make it seem like they think a certain way when in reality it's exactly the female nature telling them that "this is what these men want and how I make myself desirable on SS." That could be the case.
Having spoken directly to some in the past, I tend to believe they have a deeper understanding of what the red pill is than that. I don't believe women can ever be red-pilled themselves though no matter how much they read about it on SS or wherever else.
BeExcellent
Master Don Juan
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Just remember. Women can be ruthlessly Machiavellian. Cunning and/or influence are the means by which women can gain power and position. Sex appeal, no matter how strong, will only get a chick so far.
If you look at historical examples (Cleopatra and Eva Peron come to mind) there are women who understand how to deploy massive sex appeal quite effectively as part of a greater ambition.
I personally think a woman is perfectly capable of being red pilled, and I would suggest that in fact it comes more easily to a woman because of the social matrix and pecking order hierarchy that women always establish in any social situation. Women do this from very early childhood and women who are aware of it are far more adroit at navigating those unwritten social rules better in many cases than men.
And women understand the consequences of non conformity better too. I know I do. I’ve been ostracized because I won’t play by the invisible rules, and I’ve got no issue with that. I can follow the rules when it suits me, and not follow the rules when that suits me.
But to do that requires a nuanced and deep understanding of things.
I will say this. I’ve no reason to BS the board or put up a facade as a woman here. If I’m not being authentic in what I’m sharing that doesn’t serve anybody.
If you look at historical examples (Cleopatra and Eva Peron come to mind) there are women who understand how to deploy massive sex appeal quite effectively as part of a greater ambition.
I personally think a woman is perfectly capable of being red pilled, and I would suggest that in fact it comes more easily to a woman because of the social matrix and pecking order hierarchy that women always establish in any social situation. Women do this from very early childhood and women who are aware of it are far more adroit at navigating those unwritten social rules better in many cases than men.
And women understand the consequences of non conformity better too. I know I do. I’ve been ostracized because I won’t play by the invisible rules, and I’ve got no issue with that. I can follow the rules when it suits me, and not follow the rules when that suits me.
But to do that requires a nuanced and deep understanding of things.
I will say this. I’ve no reason to BS the board or put up a facade as a woman here. If I’m not being authentic in what I’m sharing that doesn’t serve anybody.