Overgaming women...

[pyros]

I mean, because of the DJ stuff (being alpha, dont accepting shi-t from women etc...) I've had a couple of girls that turned me down at some point because I did not accept their little manipulations, drama, games, demands etc.

For example, I had one girl that stopped seing me basically because I did not pay attention to her everyday. She wanted me to contact her everyday, after a couple of dates. She texted me etc every other day, but I just replied, or texted her very little.
When she complained about this, I teased her a bit and made a few jokes, and I thought (following DJ principles) that I was being the prize, she was chasing which was good, and I did not want to change that. She said that I was too stucked-up.
However, she got tired of it (she wanted someone that showed more interest and affection) and stopped seing me. I thought about it and I realised that I should have increased the number of times I contacted her first because really, why not?? she wanted me to contact her more often, this was something she 'needed' to feel good, and feel the relationship was important for me, but I thought she was being silly and I thought that an 'alpha' male should be 'busy', be the prize etc and he should not bend.

But now that I thingk about it I think I just overgamed her, I took this DJ stuff too far and I ended up loosing the girl.
In antoher occasion with a different girl the same thing happened. She liked to create a bit of drama from time to time. I ignored her everytime, literally, everytime she did that, and she decided to not see me anymore because 'I did not care for her', you know?
Now I think that I should have listened to her a bit, listened to her little complains and drama, because if you accept 0% drama, games etc from women, they just send you to the curb cause you do not seem to care about them, or at least that's what they think.

The majority of guys from here are trained to not accept manipulations,games, drama, bad behaviour etc from women, which is fine, but the reality is that you end up going extreme. You become too harsh, cold and indiferent.

You see couples everyda in which if you pay attention you see the guy bending, or tolerating crap from his gf.
One thing is being a complete AFC which is bad, but in order to not become one of them, ppl here tend to go to the other extreme, which is not the proper way to find a meaningful relationship with a girl, because hey, if you accept zero shi-t from your girl, she will leave you sooner or later.
I dont think there is any relationship in which the guy never, ever, accepts sh-it (arriving late, denying sex, being bratty, creating drama...) from his girl.
Many ppl from here thinks they should treat their gf like they would a FWB, but that is totally counterproductive...
Even if you're dealing with a FWB, more often than not, these girls want you to treat them like a gf, or kind of, because if you do not, they leave because it makes them feel bad.

You understand my point? similar experiences? this is the sosuave syndrom as some poster wrote once.

 

[MOTU]

Well that's lesson nine of Pook's 15, right: be not constrained by formula. What we talk about here are basic principles, not exact formulas to be followed. You have to adjust for age, culture, your history with the chick and other variables.

I also think there is something to be said for push-pull methodologies, like a coquet. You want to give enough pleasurable attention so that they have something to miss when you withdraw it. If you never give any, there is nothing to withdraw. You have to feed the hamster or it will tire of spinning.

All that being said, it could be those chicks just weren't that into you, and it had nothing to do with your game.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

I mean, because of the DJ stuff (being alpha, dont accepting shi-t from women etc...) I've had a couple of girls that turned me down at some point because I did not accept their little manipulations, drama, games, demands etc.

Treat them all the same man. Once we start making exceptions for certain chicks is when we start backlisiding.

Some women just do not like a powerful man; they prefer to wear the trousers, usually because of their own low self-esteem.

I've had the same experiences, even last week with that chick on OKC telling me I'm 'very confident' - one of the traits that women claim to find so attractive in men. Some just can't handle it because it highlights to them in a very tangible way how low their own confidence levels are; it's not that they're rejecting your confidence, it's that they know they will not be able to match it at that moment in time and they'll probably end up losing you.

She wanted me to contact her everyday, after a couple of dates. She texted me etc every other day

That's a double standard right there and again a red flag of low self-confidence and her needing you to fulfil her somewhat empty existence. I much prefer women who have other stuff going on - being the sole source of inspiration and entertainment in a woman's life (as you, I and many others have previously been) spells trouble. She'd have grafted herself to your hip by now had you entertained her demands.

 

[jurry]

I think the attitude youre referring to is much more valuable and effective at the beginning stage (i.e. first approaching a girl through dates 3-4). From there, the principles still hold but you do want to actually RELATE and CONNECT and GROW with a girl, not just be an unemotional stone of a human being. Once its clear that you both like each other and want something more serious, you have to let your guard down and surrender to each other a certain amount.

This doesn't mean that you're gona turn into an overbearing beta pvssy sending her love notes everyday, it just means that you have both agreed to take the leap together and at this point you (both) have to accept the uncertain and fluctuating nature of a relationship and not knowing exactly how its going to play out.

 

[Dgwizdal]

You want to give enough pleasurable attention so that they have something to miss when you withdraw it. If you never give any, there is nothing to withdraw. You have to feed the hamster or it will tire of spinning.

This. Repped both of you. You cannot be a solid tin man all the time or else there is no reason for her to chase you if you are always pushing away. You must pepper your alpha steak with bits of beta in order to create the right balance. Too much alpha and she will deem you uncatchable.

I've lost a few like this. It usually does come to a head at some point to where they give up after beating down your door, riding you c*ck every chance they can get, holding on for dear life clinging to the chance that you will show some sort of validation. They usually go in a fit of nuclear hamster spinning meltdown rage of "I NEED MORES" "you don't want what I wants" "I can't waste any more time with someone who won't get serious" "You don't care about me's/like who I ams" etc.

However, a woman will always leave the door open to her pvssy ever so slightly in hopes that you will redeem yourself long after she is forced to eject. My last GF is just starting to warm up to me again after a year of hating my guts after she ejected in the above fashion and I immediately started banging and dating her friends with zero f*cks given and still am. She hasn't dated anyone and is FAR too feisty for your average beta to hold down.


IMO: The above is the BEST way to get dumped and have chances for reconciliation down they line if you keep your cool. She will start to reminisce about the "uncatchable" guy after her next beta boyfriend smothers her with emotional availability and rainbow sprinkles. You may just be the only person that can quench her thirst. HOWEVER: DO NOT TRY TO REESTABLISH RAPPORT TOO QUICKLY OR YOU PROBABLY WILL GO DOWN LIKE A BETA FAGGOT WITH A STRONG WOMAN as she will be jaded. Best to walk away and give it a lot of time: Never losing your frame or supplicating the exact same way you would for getting dumped because of AFCness and then subtly working your way back.

A WOMAN WILL EJECT IF YOU OVERGAME.

 

[Atom Smasher]

It's all about learning to calibrate to the circumstances. You're going to need to treat a club rat differently from the way you'll treat a halfway decent girl you meet somewhere.

The principles here are training wheels, meant to be a guide for one to get started, to have some kind of structure. As such they need to be defined in a stark, concrete way. But they are only guidelines and they are meant to be malleable so that men can shape them to their own style and to the chemistry he has with the woman.

Let the principles get you a foothold but then adjust them as you go in order to avoid going overboard. This is an art, and a complex one at that. The number of variables is astronomical. The principles make the variables manageable so that a man can have a fighting chance. Once the fish is hooked it's up to you to play the line according to the kind of fish it is and according to the state of the seas.

In short, use the principles to give structure to your technique, then introduce your own artistry to find balance.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

Without wishing to perpetuate my reputation for antagonism, the example given was a girl who wanted to be texted everyday after only two dates; an one who would otherwise reciprocate with a text every other day.

I don't think this is a situation that should be encouraged.

I agree with the 'pepperings of beta' but would whole-heartedly discourage any special treatment.

1. Be your own person with your own belief system and take ALL advice with a pinch of salt.

2. Treat everyone woman you meet the same, because when you eventually start socialising with others as a couple, your friends/family will notice how this chick changed you and you'll have a hard time adjusting back once she's gone. May sound embittered; but it's reality that many face day in, day out.

 

[jurry]

My last GF is just starting to warm up to me again after a year of hating my guts after she ejected in the above fashion and I immediately started banging and dating her friends with zero f*cks given and still am. She hasn't dated anyone and is FAR too feisty for your average beta to hold down.

Bahaha.. Awesome.

 

[zekko]

I dont think there is any relationship in which the guy never, ever, accepts sh-it (arriving late, denying sex, being bratty, creating drama...) from his girl.

I don't think a guy should accept sh!t, generally speaking. But there is such a thing as picking your battles. We're all human, and we're not always going to be at our best. Sometimes it's better to just let some things go.

I also think there is something to be said for push-pull methodologies, like a coquet. You want to give enough pleasurable attention so that they have something to miss when you withdraw it. If you never give any, there is nothing to withdraw. You have to feed the hamster or it will tire of spinning.

This is something that has always bugged me about Sosuave, and other PUA sites. All anybody ever emphasizes here is the push. You could fill an encyclopedia with information about the push that is presented here. But no one ever says anything about the pull. Which is one of the reason I came here - to learn how to flirt better. At which point some guy will say "Dude, you flirt by pushing her away". Lol.

Again, it's all push here and no pull. When I've asked about this, I've been told that 99% of the guys that come here pull too much and are too AFC and buying girls flowers and calling them beautiful and putting them on a pedestal, and that's why it's never discussed. I've always thought my main problem with women has been that I am too aloof and indifferent with them.

 

[zekko]

I never believed that you had to be a f1ck all of the time or always be elusive. I think the problem stems from people applying everything in the extreme and putting the word "always" in front of the concepts.

That's my pet peeve with a lot of pickup material: People putting the words "always" or "never" on their concepts. For example, something like "Never buy a woman a drink. She will always think you are a putz if you do". That sort of thing.

People put "always" or "never" on there even when they don't even believe it themselves. What they usually mean is "as a general rule, do this", but that doesn't carry the same dramatic weight, does it?

 

[G_Govan]

You have to be willing to lose women in order to be a man.

You aren't going to please every woman, nor should you try.

A woman telling me I need to text her every day is going to be laughed at. I'm not a child and will text when I feel like it. I'll also respond to texts in a timely manner depending on the context.

Succumbing to this kind of pressure is what women expect of you. In an LTR, understand that this never ends. You need to draw boundaries (reasonable) and stick to them.

 

[Maximus Rex]

Rex Doesn't Understand

For example, I had one girl that stopped seing me basically because I did not pay attention to her everyday. She wanted me to contact her everyday, after a couple of dates. She texted me etc every other day, but I just replied, or texted her very little.

When she complained about this, I teased her a bit and made a few jokes, and I thought (following DJ principles) that I was being the prize, she was chasing which was good, and I did not want to change that. She said that I was too stucked-up.

However, she got tired of it (she wanted someone that showed more interest and affection) and stopped seing me. I thought about it and I realised that I should have increased the number of times I contacted her first because really, why not?? she wanted me to contact her more often, this was something she 'needed' to feel good, and feel the relationship was important for me, but I thought she was being silly and I thought that an 'alpha' male should be 'busy', be the prize etc and he should not bend.

This is why you need to post field reports, bruh. Reading your dealings with women is like reading a book from the middle. You'll be at a lost as to what's going on. Why did baby girl have the expectation to hear from you everyday. You're not managing expectations properly and therefore you need to listen to these podcasts from Harry Wilimington,

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=216680

Episode 82: Stop Reassuring Women That You Like Them

http://www.stoplosingwomen.com/page/4/

Episode 133: ADVANCE GAME – Training Her to NOT Hear Back From You Right Away

But now that I thingk about it I think I just overgamed her, I took this DJ stuff too far and I ended up loosing the girl.

How did you "over gamed," her? You had the parameters in which you wanted the relationship to take place and she didn't agree with those parameters. You were able to have sex with her for awhile and it seems to ole Rex that you came out ahead.

In antoher occasion with a different girl the same thing happened. She liked to create a bit of drama from time to time. I ignored her everytime, literally, everytime she did that, and she decided to not see me anymore because 'I did not care for her', you know?

Now I think that I should have listened to her a bit, listened to her little complains and drama, because if you accept 0% drama, games etc from women, they just send you to the curb cause you do not seem to care about them, or at least that's what they think.

And pray tell how this would have benefited you?

The majority of guys from here are trained to not accept manipulations,games, drama, bad behaviour etc from women, which is fine, but the reality is that you end up going extreme. You become too harsh, cold and indiferent.

How is this a bad thing? Also dude, you haven't seemed to accept the fact that every chick isn't going to like you. You need to start operating from an abundance mentality.

 

[Chamber36]

I feel your pain bro's.

I overgamed a chick too this week. She was the best one I've met in months too.

I insisted on her number although she accepted my number, and she had to deal with her current/ex boyfriend and get the drama sorted.

I didn't realise she might have a broken heart and was way too adament she gimme the dam number.

Now all I can do is apologize if I see her again.

 

[sylvester the cat]

I feel your pain bro's.

I overgamed a chick too this week. She was the best one I've met in months too.

I insisted on her number although she accepted my number, and she had to deal with her current/ex boyfriend and get the drama sorted.

I didn't realise she might have a broken heart and was way too adament she gimme the dam number.

Now all I can do is apologize if I see her again.

heartbroken? apologize?

you didn't overgame. you just got rejected.

 

[Skyline]

This is why I enjoy Corey Wayne because he actually goes over this exclusive topic, pyros. Basically if you don't show that you care by listening and or talking(if appropriate) to her when she's upset, then she'll end up leaving because "you don't care." He also points out that doing this too much will have the same effect, "gay male girlfriend" in his words. The key is to care/listen when it counts.

 

[3agle 3yes]

I agree with G_Govan with this one.

There is "overgaming" and there is bending to the will of a woman.

No woman you know very little of is special and if they expect me to accept certain behaviours then she need to EARN it first.

I've had a couple of girls that turned me down at some point because I did not accept their little manipulations, drama, games, demands etc.

But how far does it go? If a girl had the habit of slapping you in public but she was dtf all the time would you let her slap you?

For example, I had one girl that stopped seing me basically because I did not pay attention to her everyday.

This is a red-flag.

She wanted me to contact her everyday, after a couple of dates. She texted me etc every other day, but I just replied, or texted her very little.
When she complained about this, I teased her a bit and made a few jokes, and I thought (following DJ principles) that I was being the prize, she was chasing which was good, and I did not want to change that. She said that I was too stucked-up.

So, are you telling me she expected you to contact her EVERYDAY and then had the nerve to call YOU out for being "stuck up"?

Please tell me you can see what's wrong with this?

if you accept 0% drama, games etc from women, they just send you to the curb cause you do not seem to care about them, or at least that's what they think.

So you've NEVER got laid accepting 0% drama before? If you have why treat this one different?

The majority of guys from here are trained to not accept manipulations,games, drama, bad behaviour etc from women, which is fine, but the reality is that you end up going extreme. You become too harsh, cold and indiferent.

Maybe, but instead of putting up with their bs, you REAWARD them for good behaviour and punish them accordingly.

 

[Don-Kong]

Listen man. You have to do what you wanna do.
If you are not in an LTR with her then demands of you are frankly gonna make you think about your own rules. This makes our automatic thoughts arise and say "I dont fancy doing that" etc

We all have inner rules. Get to know them. Because it helps you assert what you want and how you want to be treated and what you expect of others.

Most guys here are pretty savvy to what they want, so they don't put up with being treated in a normal way. They have self worth.

I dont care if shes a 12, I know exactly how i want o be treated and I dont put up with people behaving in certain ways with me. I know my internal rules of what I will allow. It keeps me safe from manipulation and more importantly, my own inner happiness.

Of course in an LTR we sacrifice and compromise, but after a few dates....Fvck off. Sack her.

Being compatible with a partner and aligning with their intentions takes a lot of time but i'd be suspect from someone demanding this and that. A lot of maintenance

 

[Mr Wright]

There's such a simple solution to this. I think guys need to date a whole bunch of women, work out what they do and don't like, set those things as standards and don't worry about what anybody else has to say about it.

You will be able to put up with things that I can't stand. I will be able to put up with things that you can't stand. If you don't like it, get rid of it, it's that simple. Taking standards that someone else dictates to you makes no sense, you'll be left with a form of cognitive dissonance. The things that are taught on here shouldn't be taken word for word but as guidelines made to suit your own lifestyle. That's one of the reasons why I don't conform to the whole 'alpha' concept or even use the word 'don juan'... I just want to live the best way I can for me, some of ideas may fit in nicely but other things may not. Either way with the knowledge that's on here, I can work my way through situations.

Get out of the cookie cutter mold and be who you want to be, live by your own standards and don't judge yourself on community standards. You'll be a lot happier that way. Being aware is half the battle, once you know all this stuff, it's hard to stay ignorant when you're getting screwed so don't worry about it.