Online vs Real Life HELP!

biggoal

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They will drain your bank account and any savings then leave you dry. They, in general, hate dudes due to their own sh itty decisions in life. Though, inwardly, they hate themselves more. Stick to finding a way to score with a female first; then work your way up. You need experience.. This is what you gravely lack, but do not realize.
Unless they marry me they won't get the bank account. If they pout about not getting anything they can then go pound sand and don't let the door hit them.

There is this really hot MILF on my street a few houses down. Very nice woman always polite, has two kids. She's divorced and only works like part time so husband must have been cleaned out. I never tried hitting on her or anything. I just got the vibe she was a gold digger. I think she's dating some redneck now. Drives a nice Ford pickup truck and wears boots. Looks to be about 50 years old so I dont' wanna mess with her anyway now.

The one on OLD I'm talking to pushing 50 wants to meet with me next week. Very religious but sees the romantic aspect for LTR hard because I'm a lot younger than her and can still have kids. SHe says she wants to meet me though and hangout. I mean, a cougar pushing 50 though why would she want to meet someone my age then? She is very cute for her age though and healthy. I find her to be really attractive and obviously she replied to me and texts with me so she must be interested in something.

Oh and that 39 year old nurse just randomly texted me again tonight to chat for awhile. I guess that's a good sign when they reach out to me without having to text first? Third time in a row she's randomly texted me.
 
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halfguard

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What make's you a provable 6+? You yourself said you're a 5. If you have ladies called Bilbo Baggins and Gollum, find another MMA gym to train at. All the ladies at my gym are tight and pretty attractive; but they'd kick you ass without a second thought.
I'm a 6+ based on feedback from the handful of 7s and above I was able to pull from online. Plus I have eyes. I see other dudes. Also these nightmare 5s and low 6s are almost 100% guaranteed sex when I'm with them. That actually makes me feel crappy because they're 5s. Not 7+. I'm hard on myself but realistic. I said since I'm always dealing with 5s online my mindset is a 5. The online arena has messed me up mentally since I haven't approached offline since before I was married. So i have doubts now where I stand. To figure out where my potential pool of women range I have to offline approach which I've never done before.
 

biggoal

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I'm a 6+ based on feedback from the handful of 7s and above I was able to pull from online. Plus I have eyes. I see other dudes. Also these nightmare 5s and low 6s are almost 100% guaranteed sex when I'm with them. That actually makes me feel crappy because they're 5s. Not 7+. I'm hard on myself but realistic. I said since I'm always dealing with 5s online my mindset is a 5. The online arena has messed me up mentally since I haven't approached offline since before I was married. So i have doubts now where I stand. To figure out where my potential pool of women range I have to offline approach which I've never done before.
As I said in other threads I see HB7 and up women down here all the time with guys who are fat, short, bald, nasty looking etc. So you shouldn't have a problem pulling them off in person if you go to the right places and settings to meet them.
 

kzar_kzar

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Look I get it you are going after the bait....where do all the best looking girls hangout.

But we are setting the hook. go after those good-looking girls but do it in such a way that the process improves you.

Think of it like a portfolio. If you already have a bunch of great social circles where good-looking girls abound I.e. bluechips then all you need is a bit of excitement I.e. small caps. So go to a shooting meet up for a off-road 4 x 4 meetup.

Leil lowndes used to call it scramble therapy. you go to a bunch of things you usually wouldn't try and you become a more interesting person.

It doesn't have to be a meetup. it could be a local market or your local theatre group. A yoga or dance class. Your local resources are going to differ. Any place you feel relatively comfortable and there are women around.

And I freely admit I'm old. I'm in my 50s and when I first came here I was pretty self-conscious about the idea of cold approaching. I still don't think I could do that. But what I do is situational approach. See girl on the lift I'll talk to her. if she's a bit guarded I LL wait and talk next time I see her. If she's into it I go for the number. Now currently I've got a long-term girlfriend now so talk is all she gets. But you get the idea.
I think I am going to keep this some where.. Amazing suggestion.. setting up a hook.
 

stormrider

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My first post and I am glad to be here. Apologize if this is a bit long.

I wanted to run a few things by you guys and see if anyone has had the same experiences and thoughts I have. There are probably lots of things at play here, but I’ll try and give you a foundation to help address my concerns or questions.

I am 47 and been divorced about 5 years. I have pretty much lived online. Tinder, Bumble, POF, Match, etc. Over those 5 years I have probably had at least a first date with easily over 100 women ranging in age from 36 to 52. Of those 100+ there were probably only about 5 times that they didn’t want a follow up date with me. I’ve mastered the first date (with online girls). Also, I’ve had sex at least once with 50+ of those 100. Most of the others I wanted no part of or were just to disgusting to sleep with or too much work for not much payoff, etc. Some turned into a “relationship”, some turned into FWB, some were just one night of debauchery, etc.

The problem…they were all 4 to 6’s (with a handful of 7’s peppered in). (I don’t just rank by looks, I take personality, intelligence, and disposition into account). Adequate but would never introduce to my kids, bring to family, or think long term with. It took me maybe 3 years to realize I was having sex with girls below my value. When I first got divorced, I didn’t care who I met online. I was married for 19 years. I wanted to just go nuts and get the reps in. Learn. Needless to say I have become the master of train-wrecks. There was always something off with these girls. If they looked halfway decent online, they were pigs in person. If I got the rare hot one in person they were completely insane. Or they might have been a 9 in personality/emotional intelligence but like a 5 or low 6 in looks. Like something was always missing. Or I just didn’t feel I was dating where I “belonged”. But I started thinking this is it. So I would date them and then resent them because I wasn't being true to myself. I was talking myself into "staying" or liking these girls.

Based off feedback online vs in person, I am probably a 5 or 6 online – my pics don’t do me justice. I blend in most likely. Another face that wants to get laid. In person I am somewhere around a handsome 7. Also at my age, I have other things going for me. I am in shape, I train Brazilian jiu jitsu and compete all over the country (women find this interesting and it separates me from most guys online), I have a great job, can hold conversations, and have a side hustle writing fiction and selling it on Amazon. Also trade cryptocurrency and well read. I am also a good father so the women see this as well. This is all crap that women eat up because they are used to their loser ex husband.

But over the years, I have gotten more and more insecure because I realized I can’t seem to pull an 8 – 10 online. I’ve read tons of articles on how online dating is awful in many different ways. The women have a warped sense of their value online. They have pick of the litter. A 5 or 6 can afford to cherry pick, meanwhile in person they wouldn’t be looked at by half the guys they come across. And the 8’s and 9’s forget it. I can’t touch them online.
Hundred of times over the years I’d see a women online and think to myself – this one is in my wheelhouse. Probably a cute 7 in person. There is no way she won’t reply to me. And sure enough, nothing. It gets in your head after awhile.

I’ve tweaked my profile, split-tested profiles, multiple profiles, different pics, different profile bios. I basically get the same results with the exception here or there. The only thing I have not done is get professional pics done (like everyone has on Bumble). I’m tempted because guys have told me that usually gets them in front of 8-10’s. As long of course the pics convey the real you and she is not completely blindsided if you look completely different. Supposedly there are pro photographers out there who specialize in that crap.

I can’t seem to get the 8-10 on a date. Online is too “photo-centric”. But I know if I can get in front of these girls I am golden. And even if my success rate plummets, I’ll take it. I have high value for women in my age bracket and if they are online dating also then they know what’s out there and my value rises as they get to know me throughout the first date. These women have been cheated on, stood up, had crap marriages, met insecure ******* dudes, etc. They are easy for any guy who has their **** together.

I want to know – has anyone around my age had this phenomena happen to them? Is there a fix? An approach that works? Strategy?

After 5 years, my confidence is shot as far as real life approaches go. I have to work on that – I know. It’s in my head now that I am not that attractive physically because 8-10’s won’t look at me online. I am average in pics but have been told time and time again that I am way better all around in person. I haven’t approached a girl since high school. College doesn’t count – that was too easy – and then I got married. I have no “real world” game.

Is Online Dating just toxic and attracts a certain cross section of single people that are damaged and have a warped sense of their value?

Am I hiding online because it’s a buffer? It’s easy to be rejected over and over online.

Should I just go old school?
Which terrifies me by the way. What if it is true and I can't attract 8's-10's? I work from home most days. Which means I am in coffee shops and bookstores almost every single day. I am usually dressed casual but neat and clean and well groomed. I think I have a presence at least? I try the eye contact stuff (I don’t stare like a psychopath) but man these women are naval gazers, they don’t look anywhere. 80% walk around like they have a shield around them, “don’t look at me”. So I attribute that to me. They won’t look at me. They don’t notice me. They won’t take a second look at me after a first. It’s in my head now. I also realize, coffee shops attract married women and girls who are focused and on the run so that knocks out like 50% or more.
The minute I see an attractive women IRL – my default is “well she is like an 8. And 8’s want nothing to do with me online so she won’t even look at me IRL." But of course a 5 may do the look back and eye contact. It takes the wind out of my sails.

Is online a different animal than in person?

Any feedback or advice on any of the above would be appreciated.

What are your social circles like? I don’t believe that all the women in your mma gym are ugly. Especially since you said you are ThE master of banging 4’s and 5’s. You’re telling me the mma women with tight bodies are 2’s and 3’s then? That sounds hard to believe.

There have been times where I had nothing going on in terms of a social life because all I did was work and still I ran into cute women at my gym/mma/boxing classes.

Even when I did nothing but work on my laptop in coffee shops I managed to run into women.

And when I deliberately became proactive and seeked hobbies/interests that had women in it like yoga, wine tasting, art shows, performing in theater to practice public speech, etc, I ran into even more women. Like a never ending ecosystem that kept pumping in women.

The real question is, where AREN’T the women at? Even in strip clubs they come in droves.

Come up with 5 hobbies that you think you could be interested in that could potentially have women in it and I guarantee you you’d be surrounded by women flirting with you.

The reason why you keep running into crazy women is because OLD and the dating game in general is full of them.

You want to meet these women in social environments where women aren’t desperately looking. Environments that are centered around activities/hobbies/niche.

And finding those environments is like 90% of the battle.

The last thing you want to do is go back online or do speed dating. It’s full of needy and neurotic women.

Trust me you don’t want to meet women in ANY social environment that is related to dating/romance. It’s all contrived and forced and not natural. It’s like living in women’s frame/reality.
 
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halfguard

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What are your social circles like? I don’t believe that all the women in your mma gym are ugly. Especially since you said you are ThE master of banging 4’s and 5’s. You’re telling me the mma women with tight bodies are 2’s and 3’s then? That sounds hard to believe.

There have been times where I had nothing going on in terms of a social life because all I did was work and still I ran into cute women at my gym/mma/boxing classes.

Even when I did nothing but work on my laptop in coffee shops I managed to run into women.

And when I deliberately became proactive and seeked hobbies/interests that had women in it like yoga, wine tasting, art shows, performing in theater to practice public speech, etc, I ran into even more women. Like a never ending ecosystem that kept pumping in women.

The real question is, where AREN’T the women at? Even in strip clubs they come in droves.

Come up with 5 hobbies that you think you could be interested in that could potentially have women in it and I guarantee you you’d be surrounded by women flirting with you.

The reason why you keep running into crazy women is because OLD and the dating game in general is full of them.

You want to meet these women in social environments where women aren’t desperately looking. Environments that are centered around activities/hobbies/niche.

And finding those environments is like 90% of the battle.

The last thing you want to do is go back online or do speed dating. It’s full of needy and neurotic women.

Trust me you don’t want to meet women in ANY social environment that is related to dating/romance. It’s all contrived and forced and not natural. It’s like living in women’s frame/reality.
"It’s all contrived and forced and not natural. It’s like living in women’s frame/reality" - stormrider

That last sentence in your post...you just said what I couldn't articulate but always "felt". Mind blown man. Probably the best depiction of online dating I have ever heard.

It's clear based on all these responses that I must get involved in women heavy activities, stop making excuses (like you, I work from my laptop in bookstores and coffee shops almost everyday), and learn to approach IRL.

Not going to lie. It is a scary proposition. For 5 years I've hid online. Used it as a crutch. To completely depend on myself in the "real dating world" is terrifying. That is probably why I've always reverted back to OLD. Scared of "real rejection" IRL.

Which leads me to my next question...best sites or books to get the right mindset to approach? Not looking for PUA stuff unless some is legit and can help my self improvement overall as a man or should I just dive in? Go out there and start taking my beatings?

I do appreciate everyone's input.
 
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stormrider

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It’s all contrived and forced and not natural. It’s like living in women’s frame/reality

That last sentence in your post...you just said what I couldn't articulate but always "felt". Mind blown man.

It's clear based on all these responses. Get involved in women heavy activities, stop making excuses (like you I work from my laptop in bookstores and coffee shops almost everyday), and learn to approach IRL.

Which leads me to my next question...best sites or books to get right mindset to approach? Not looking for PUA stuff unless some is legit and can help my self improvement overall or should I just dive in? Go out there and start taking my beatings?
I actually don’t approach believe it or not. 99% of the time women initiate with me. That’s why putting yourself in social environments based on your hobbies/interests that has women in it can dramatically boost your self esteem.

It’s like I can go to a club and have women act like I’m just another random douche. And I can show up to a yoga class and women would treat me like I’m brad pitt. It’s kinda weird how that works.

One environment makes me feel desired. And another environment makes me feel like I am serving women.

I think the reason for this is because environments like yoga classes, theater, and certain activities resemble social tribes that are patriarchal where you have the dominant males and supplicating females. In these environments, the social dynamic is that women are the seducers and men are the targets.

But in a night club, it resembles a matriarchy where you have The Queen bee and male peasants serving her. Online dating can also resemble a matriarchy depending on the male/female ratio. And so can speed dating and just about every other environment that centers around dating. It all serves women.

On an even playing field, as long as you are a male 6 with a cool vibe and things going on for you, women will seduce you.

I don’t like the word “approach” because it’s coming from the female frame of serving women. I like to use the word “socialize.“

Does it matter who approaches who in a social environment? Not really. You make friends, network with people, have a good time, and share laughs.

And if a woman likes you, she gives you plausible deniability - an excuse to be alone like watching a movie, cooking a meal, or seeing a show/band/ etc. It’s just casual. And then you guys hook up.

At least for me, this is what it looks like. I exist in social environments based on hobbies/activities I enjoy that also happens to have women in it. I socialize like a normal guy, not a pickup artist, and women invite me to be alone with them if we click and have chemistry/connection.

This way my self esteem is always high because I am not constantly getting qualified/disqualified by women in social matriarchies.

The frame is reversed and I am the one who is qualifying/dismissing women based on their behavior.

The funny thing is, matriarchal environments like night clubs aren’t even natural. They are fabricated by society to make guys spend money on drinks. Most environments that serve women do not feel natural for a dominant and masculine guy. It all feels contrived and manipulated in a way.
 
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halfguard

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I actually don’t approach believe it or not. 99% of the time women initiate with me. That’s why putting yourself in social environments based on your hobbies/interests that has women in it can dramatically boost your self esteem.

It’s like I can go to a club and have women act like I’m just another random douche. And I can show up to a yoga class and women would treat me like I’m brad pitt. It’s kinda weird how that works.

One environment makes me feel desired. And another environment makes me feel like I am serving women.

I think the reason for this is because environments like yoga classes, theater, and certain activities resemble social tribes that are patriarchal where you have the dominant males and supplicating females. In these environments, the social dynamic is that women are the seducers and men are the targets.

But in a night club, it resembles a matriarchy where you have The Queen bee and male peasants serving her. Online dating can also resemble a matriarchy depending on the male/female ratio. And so can speed dating and just about every other environment that centers around dating. It all serves women.

On an even playing field, as long as you are a male 6 with a cool vibe and things going on for you, women will seduce you.

I don’t like the word “approach” because it’s coming from the female frame of serving women. I like to use the word socialize.

Does it matter who approaches who in a social environment? Not really. You make friends, network with people, have a good time, and share laughs.

And if a woman likes you, she gives you plausible deniability - an excuse to be alone like watching a movie, cooking a meal, or seeing a show/band/ etc. It’s just casual. And then you guys hook up.

At least for me, this is what it looks like. I exist in social environments based on hobbies/activities I enjoy that also happens to have women in it. I socialize like a normal guy, not a pickup artist, and women invite me to be alone with them if we click and have chemistry/connection.

This way my self esteem is always high because I am not constantly getting qualified/disqualified by women in social matriarchies.

The frame is reversed and I am the one who is qualifying/dismissing women based on their behavior.

The funny thing is, matriarchal environments like night clubs aren’t even natural. They are fabricated by society to make guys spend money on drinks. Most environments that serve women do not feel natural for a dominant and masculine guy. It all feels contrived and manipulated in a way.
Time to find some niches and hobbies that are women heavy and commonplace for a 47 year old dude.
 

MrWood

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OP: you proved you can pull and smash, you got good text/OLD game. Good job!

So you are tired of HB4-7, and you should be.
You want to know how to pull more HB7-8, right?

stop swiping and engaging HB4-6
stop swiping 36 to 52
swipe more HB7-8
swipe younger 18-20, 29-35 (21-28 if you want kids)

your hit/date ratios may be less, but your quality will go up
 

halfguard

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OP: you proved you can pull and smash, you got good text/OLD game. Good job!

So you are tired of HB4-7, and you should be.
You want to know how to pull more HB7-8, right?

stop swiping and engaging HB4-6
stop swiping 36 to 52
swipe more HB7-8
swipe younger 18-20, 29-35 (21-28 if you want kids)

your hit/date ratios may be less, but your quality will go up
My online opportunities will plummet but you're right. I've been filling up time online regardless of quality because of the fear of scarcity. Fear of having no plates to spin. So I spin anything then resent them.

Going offline and into the real world is my best bet while dabbling online. Instead of the other way around.
 
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RickTheToad

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I'm a 6+ based on feedback from the handful of 7s and above I was able to pull from online. Plus I have eyes. I see other dudes. Also these nightmare 5s and low 6s are almost 100% guaranteed sex when I'm with them. That actually makes me feel crappy because they're 5s. Not 7+. I'm hard on myself but realistic. I said since I'm always dealing with 5s online my mindset is a 5. The online arena has messed me up mentally since I haven't approached offline since before I was married. So i have doubts now where I stand. To figure out where my potential pool of women range I have to offline approach which I've never done before.
You never know until you try. Get off OLD and get into the real world.
 

RickTheToad

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Unless they marry me they won't get the bank account. If they pout about not getting anything they can then go pound sand and don't let the door hit them.

There is this really hot MILF on my street a few houses down. Very nice woman always polite, has two kids. She's divorced and only works like part time so husband must have been cleaned out. I never tried hitting on her or anything. I just got the vibe she was a gold digger. I think she's dating some redneck now. Drives a nice Ford pickup truck and wears boots. Looks to be about 50 years old so I dont' wanna mess with her anyway now.

The one on OLD I'm talking to pushing 50 wants to meet with me next week. Very religious but sees the romantic aspect for LTR hard because I'm a lot younger than her and can still have kids. SHe says she wants to meet me though and hangout. I mean, a cougar pushing 50 though why would she want to meet someone my age then? She is very cute for her age though and healthy. I find her to be really attractive and obviously she replied to me and texts with me so she must be interested in something.

Oh and that 39 year old nurse just randomly texted me again tonight to chat for awhile. I guess that's a good sign when they reach out to me without having to text first? Third time in a row she's randomly texted me.
With you, and going by your actions on SS, as soon as they give the mark (you) some p ussy, you will be swallowed up and spit out with little to show for it.
 
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