Online vs Real Life HELP!

halfguard

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My first post and I am glad to be here. Apologize if this is a bit long.

I wanted to run a few things by you guys and see if anyone has had the same experiences and thoughts I have. There are probably lots of things at play here, but I’ll try and give you a foundation to help address my concerns or questions.

I am 47 and been divorced about 5 years. I have pretty much lived online. Tinder, Bumble, POF, Match, etc. Over those 5 years I have probably had at least a first date with easily over 100 women ranging in age from 36 to 52. Of those 100+ there were probably only about 5 times that they didn’t want a follow up date with me. I’ve mastered the first date (with online girls). Also, I’ve had sex at least once with 50+ of those 100. Most of the others I wanted no part of or were just to disgusting to sleep with or too much work for not much payoff, etc. Some turned into a “relationship”, some turned into FWB, some were just one night of debauchery, etc.

The problem…they were all 4 to 6’s (with a handful of 7’s peppered in). (I don’t just rank by looks, I take personality, intelligence, and disposition into account). Adequate but would never introduce to my kids, bring to family, or think long term with. It took me maybe 3 years to realize I was having sex with girls below my value. When I first got divorced, I didn’t care who I met online. I was married for 19 years. I wanted to just go nuts and get the reps in. Learn. Needless to say I have become the master of train-wrecks. There was always something off with these girls. If they looked halfway decent online, they were pigs in person. If I got the rare hot one in person they were completely insane. Or they might have been a 9 in personality/emotional intelligence but like a 5 or low 6 in looks. Like something was always missing. Or I just didn’t feel I was dating where I “belonged”. But I started thinking this is it. So I would date them and then resent them because I wasn't being true to myself. I was talking myself into "staying" or liking these girls.

Based off feedback online vs in person, I am probably a 5 or 6 online – my pics don’t do me justice. I blend in most likely. Another face that wants to get laid. In person I am somewhere around a handsome 7. Also at my age, I have other things going for me. I am in shape, I train Brazilian jiu jitsu and compete all over the country (women find this interesting and it separates me from most guys online), I have a great job, can hold conversations, and have a side hustle writing fiction and selling it on Amazon. Also trade cryptocurrency and well read. I am also a good father so the women see this as well. This is all crap that women eat up because they are used to their loser ex husband.

But over the years, I have gotten more and more insecure because I realized I can’t seem to pull an 8 – 10 online. I’ve read tons of articles on how online dating is awful in many different ways. The women have a warped sense of their value online. They have pick of the litter. A 5 or 6 can afford to cherry pick, meanwhile in person they wouldn’t be looked at by half the guys they come across. And the 8’s and 9’s forget it. I can’t touch them online.
Hundred of times over the years I’d see a women online and think to myself – this one is in my wheelhouse. Probably a cute 7 in person. There is no way she won’t reply to me. And sure enough, nothing. It gets in your head after awhile.

I’ve tweaked my profile, split-tested profiles, multiple profiles, different pics, different profile bios. I basically get the same results with the exception here or there. The only thing I have not done is get professional pics done (like everyone has on Bumble). I’m tempted because guys have told me that usually gets them in front of 8-10’s. As long of course the pics convey the real you and she is not completely blindsided if you look completely different. Supposedly there are pro photographers out there who specialize in that crap.

I can’t seem to get the 8-10 on a date. Online is too “photo-centric”. But I know if I can get in front of these girls I am golden. And even if my success rate plummets, I’ll take it. I have high value for women in my age bracket and if they are online dating also then they know what’s out there and my value rises as they get to know me throughout the first date. These women have been cheated on, stood up, had crap marriages, met insecure ******* dudes, etc. They are easy for any guy who has their **** together.

I want to know – has anyone around my age had this phenomena happen to them? Is there a fix? An approach that works? Strategy?

After 5 years, my confidence is shot as far as real life approaches go. I have to work on that – I know. It’s in my head now that I am not that attractive physically because 8-10’s won’t look at me online. I am average in pics but have been told time and time again that I am way better all around in person. I haven’t approached a girl since high school. College doesn’t count – that was too easy – and then I got married. I have no “real world” game.

Is Online Dating just toxic and attracts a certain cross section of single people that are damaged and have a warped sense of their value?

Am I hiding online because it’s a buffer? It’s easy to be rejected over and over online.

Should I just go old school?
Which terrifies me by the way. What if it is true and I can't attract 8's-10's? I work from home most days. Which means I am in coffee shops and bookstores almost every single day. I am usually dressed casual but neat and clean and well groomed. I think I have a presence at least? I try the eye contact stuff (I don’t stare like a psychopath) but man these women are naval gazers, they don’t look anywhere. 80% walk around like they have a shield around them, “don’t look at me”. So I attribute that to me. They won’t look at me. They don’t notice me. They won’t take a second look at me after a first. It’s in my head now. I also realize, coffee shops attract married women and girls who are focused and on the run so that knocks out like 50% or more.
The minute I see an attractive women IRL – my default is “well she is like an 8. And 8’s want nothing to do with me online so she won’t even look at me IRL." But of course a 5 may do the look back and eye contact. It takes the wind out of my sails.

Is online a different animal than in person?

Any feedback or advice on any of the above would be appreciated.
 
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Black Widow Void

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Welcome aboard.

There's a 'happy-medium' and yes, it does work. Try joining online meetups. You can study the attendees beforehand (keep in mind that some RSVP's will also do a no-show) and usually there's several women worth pursuing. . Unless it's a 'lonely-hearts' sort of group, you'll find that most female attendees aren't on the personals sites. They are a different(and better) breed.

The personals are not what they used to be. Ten years ago, as long as you were articulate and personable, you could be average looking and "date up." The last time I attempted on line dating, I recognized many profiles from years past that never bothered to update their profile photos (who knows how these women look in real life?) . Also, fewer now seem less invested and rarely write a decent self-description.

Cold approaches can start out being difficult. Expect a good share of rejection. It happens to anyone that is willing to put themselves out there. Attending meetups will offer you a 'glimpse' into the female attendees (if their profiles aren't private, you can discover other interest that the have by their other meetups). Approaching them with conversation, is not 'threatening' to them because meetups are designed to be social. More than once, I've e-mailed a member a few days after a meetup and lined up dates.
 
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ubercat

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+1 For our age group late 40s to 50s meetups r better because you can showcase your social skills and experience.

And you're not going crazy online has gone to bad. 10 years ago I used to pull sevens by the bucket load now it's such a ****show I would only use it for a low level form of practice... text game etc.
 

RickTheToad

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That's all fine and dandy, but what do you bring to the table for a "high quality lady"*




*Not sure there really is one, but never say never.
 

halfguard

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Thanks for the replies guys. So both of you so far are saying meetups are better? Like literally using the meetup app? Lol. Or speed dating services that offer meetups instead of the speed dating nights?

Never thought of meetups. Always thought it would be awkward and the quality low. Not to mention desperate on my part. But reframing it...it now seems as mentioned, it is a happy medium. You get to work on some skills which right now I lack and it's sort of accepted to b.s.

Meetups give out emails to contact after it's over, like speed dating? Is it bad form to get a number the same night?

Speaking of speed dating? What about that? I did it once. The two hottest girls (around 7s) came together and had no intention of matching with anyone. They made it obvious to everyone. The other 10 girls were 4s and 5s.
 
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ubercat

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Look I get it you are going after the bait....where do all the best looking girls hangout.

But we are setting the hook. go after those good-looking girls but do it in such a way that the process improves you.

Think of it like a portfolio. If you already have a bunch of great social circles where good-looking girls abound I.e. bluechips then all you need is a bit of excitement I.e. small caps. So go to a shooting meet up for a off-road 4 x 4 meetup.

Leil lowndes used to call it scramble therapy. you go to a bunch of things you usually wouldn't try and you become a more interesting person.

It doesn't have to be a meetup. it could be a local market or your local theatre group. A yoga or dance class. Your local resources are going to differ. Any place you feel relatively comfortable and there are women around.

And I freely admit I'm old. I'm in my 50s and when I first came here I was pretty self-conscious about the idea of cold approaching. I still don't think I could do that. But what I do is situational approach. See girl on the lift I'll talk to her. if she's a bit guarded I LL wait and talk next time I see her. If she's into it I go for the number. Now currently I've got a long-term girlfriend now so talk is all she gets. But you get the idea.
 

ubercat

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Actually moderately funny that are guy who wants the ladies to open up has an avatar of half guard. Pretty good nick tho
 

halfguard

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That's all fine and dandy, but what do you bring to the table for a "high quality lady"*




*Not sure there really is one, but never say never.
Plenty. But I'm not sure what you're getting at. I'm not going to list crap here. Serious question though, what do you mean?

Actually moderately funny that are guy who wants the ladies to open up has an avatar of half guard. Pretty good nick tho
It's a Brazilian jiu jitsu position. But now that you said that...it is pretty funny.
 
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RickTheToad

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Plenty. But I'm not sure what you're getting at. I'm not going to list crap here. Serious question though, what do you mean?



It's a Brazilian jiu jitsu position. But now that you said that...it is pretty funny.
You want a high class lady. Aside from BJJ and the other items you listed, what makes you different from the millions of other dudes online? If you are such the catch, why are you primarily looking online? Online is great for f ucking, but the odds are against you. The meetup suggestion is a good idea. How's your social circle? I also practice MMA. Any ladies there worth pursuing?
 

biggoal

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Welcome aboard.

There's a 'happy-medium' and yes, it does work. Try joining online meetups. You can study the attendees beforehand (keep in mind that some RSVP's will also do a no-show) and usually there's several women worth pursuing. . Unless it's a 'lonely-hearts' sort of group, you'll find that most female attendees aren't on the personals sites. They are a different(and better) breed.

The personals are not what they used to be. Ten years ago, as long as you were articulate and personable, you could be average looking and "date up." The last time I attempted on line dating, I recognized many profiles from years past that never bothered to update their profile photos (who knows how these women look in real life?) . Also, fewer now seem less invested and rarely write a decent self-description.

Cold approaches can start out being difficult. Expect a good share of rejection. It happens to anyone that is willing to put themselves out there. Attending meetups will offer you a 'glimpse' into the female attendees (if their profiles aren't private, you can discover other interest that the have by their other meetups). Approaching them with conversation, is not 'threatening' to them because meetups are designed to be social. More than once, I've e-mailed a member a few days after a meetup and lined up dates.
What about the Match events you gotta pay for? Ever been to those? Never heard much good about them and from I read either it was on here or Loveshack a guy posted about it. He said it was bowling and like only 9 total showed up. Like 5 guys and 4 women. Said the guys were very awkward like they had social problems talking to people, and the women were so so as well except for a cute asian realtor who just kept to herself and didn't talk. Overall a total waste of time.

Do these meetup events have looks wise hotter, single, no baggage, no divorced, no kids women?

What about the singles group? Someone on here one time linked me to the local singles group and I checked their website and facebook page out. It was mostly middle aged guys, older than me, a few older women, a landwhale and overall a number of the guys looked like they had issues. Not trying to sound mean but like the type of people I wouldn't want to be seen with and had visible learning disabilities possibly and some just looked plain nerdy or like hermits. Like you wouldn't want to go hangout at a hot spot with any of them or eat out in public.

Isn't there a single group with just normal people but just happen to be single?
 

biggoal

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+1 For our age group late 40s to 50s meetups r better because you can showcase your social skills and experience.

And you're not going crazy online has gone to bad. 10 years ago I used to pull sevens by the bucket load now it's such a ****show I would only use it for a low level form of practice... text game etc.
Especially around here the meetup members since it's an older region tends to have older people in it. I'm a lot younger than that. So would a single guy in his 30s be a kid to them? is a Meetup event for more older singles? I mean if I went there and hit on the older cougars like mid 40s would they be offended even though on OLD I can get dates with them? If I want to keep exploring these older MILFS or Cougars would Meetup be a good place for in person game to meet them rather than OLD which everyone says I need to get away from?
 

ubercat

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Mate I've done 20 years of martial arts I know what it is. You ll find most guys here have done at least a couple of years of something.

I also suggest at our age we have to be a little bit smarter and work out a couple of niches we do well in. In niche u can normally punch above your weight
 

ubercat

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BG stay the hell away from the cougars they will slice you up.
 
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halfguard

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You want a high class lady. Aside from BJJ and the other items you listed, what makes you different from the millions of other dudes online? If you are such the catch, why are you primarily looking online? Online is great for f ucking, but the odds are against you. The meetup suggestion is a good idea. How's your social circle? I also practice MMA. Any ladies there worth pursuing?
That's my point. I've mastered online for 4 to 6's. I'm a catch to them. But over 5 years I've been online the 8s and above don't budge for reasons we covered above. So my default now is I can't hang with 8s online or off. After 5 years of experiencing online 5s I've become one. If that makes any sense.

And as for girls in my academy or circle...brutal. We call one Bilbo Baggins and another Gollum.
 

biggoal

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BG stay the hell away from the cougars they will slice you up.
What you mean slice me up? I notice on OLD them post wall chicks are easier to get replies and dates from. What will they do to you if I actually do get passed a couple dates and into a relationship? Will they try and clean you out of your money?

There is a lot of negativity on here for women over the age of 35.
 

RickTheToad

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That's my point. I've mastered online for 4 to 6's. I'm a catch to them. But over 5 years I've been online the 8s and above don't budge for reasons we covered above. So my default now is I can't hang with 8s online or off. After 5 years of experiencing online 5s I've become one. If that makes any sense.

And as for girls in my academy or circle...brutal. We call one Bilbo Baggins and another Gollum.
What make's you a provable 6+? You yourself said you're a 5. If you have ladies called Bilbo Baggins and Gollum, find another MMA gym to train at. All the ladies at my gym are tight and pretty attractive; but they'd kick you ass without a second thought.
 

RickTheToad

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What you mean slice me up? I notice on OLD them post wall chicks are easier to get replies and dates from. What will they do to you if I actually do get passed a couple dates and into a relationship? Will they try and clean you out of your money?

There is a lot of negativity on here for women over the age of 35.
They will drain your bank account and any savings then leave you dry. They, in general, hate dudes due to their own sh itty decisions in life. Though, inwardly, they hate themselves more. Stick to finding a way to score with a female first; then work your way up. You need experience.. This is what you gravely lack, but do not realize.
 

biggoal

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That's my point. I've mastered online for 4 to 6's. I'm a catch to them. But over 5 years I've been online the 8s and above don't budge for reasons we covered above. So my default now is I can't hang with 8s online or off. After 5 years of experiencing online 5s I've become one. If that makes any sense.

And as for girls in my academy or circle...brutal. We call one Bilbo Baggins and another Gollum.
How do you know those super hot 8s are aboves are simply not fake profiles? OLD has a lot of fake profiles these days. Some of the 9s are real of course but many are simply fake profiles to lure old guys in to send money. We get than here in FL those scammers. It makes the news from time to time some stupid old man will send what he thinks is a really hot girls money on match or something and it's a scam.

Not all of them are. If they're a 8.5 or above and using OLD daily it's likely they got a lot of baggage. Someone that hot and with social circile should not be on OLD unless their attitude is so horrible no guy puts up with them. I had a date over the summer with the HB 9.5 from Match, who at the time was probably the hottest girl in the 50 mile radius at the time on there. Extremely hot looking, tall, athletic but was the most dry and horrible and snob personality I've ever seen in my life. I'd say personality was a 2 at the max and that's only because she didn't cuss. I still see her on match every other day.
 
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