Online dating has never been worse

Bingo-Player

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I find it helpful to get them to follow you on IG instead, it basically creates a passive funnel of women that are much easier and more accessible. I know some of you hate IG, and trust me no one hates social media more than I do....but it works.
Really depends how she perceives you and how well structured your instagram is

Women are expert at making assumptions and assessing your value

Generally you don't really want to give her anymore detail than is absolutely necessary , 8/10 a mans instagram is going to turn a woman off more than its going to turn her on

Again if you know what your doing or have a very good instagram it CAN work but if we are honest most men do not have good instagrams its a woman's playground

-----------------------------------------------

Women don't really care about random men until they are in some way invested thats why OLD is such a waste of time you're just too disposable

You literally need to be her idea of a perfect option just to get responses / date , you could say something obscure in the wrong context and a woman on OLD would take extreme offence to it and ghost you

Walking on egg shells isnt a game you want to encourage with females
 

itouchyou

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On the other hand, man 35 + are the actual scapegoats of today's dating landscape. Least wanted. Not by 20 /30 y.o women but also not by 30 /50 y.o women.
I don't know how many times it has to be said, but age for men simply does not matter if they retain looks and have money.

If you're talking about AVERAGE men who make less than six figures, don't have a good physique, and have average to below average faces then sure, I buy it, but men who level up in life are nearly always in their prime in their mid 30s.

You have been fed a lie by feminism or some other garbage source.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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If they follow you on IG, that's useful.

Following random hot women on IG is usually a waste.
That's what I mean. Send them your IG, then they're in your funnel. If it's a girl from a dating app you can post memes or something and they'll comment and bam you have an in. Btw I'm not suggesting you don't go for a direct approach and just ask them out, but it's much easier this way to just have a funnel system of "leads" coming in passively. But they're much more likely to respond to DMs than texts regardles; it's laughably easy to start convos with women on IG. I've literally had conversations with rando women i've never met, even with an indie female singer. Men love to shvt on social media, and trust me, I have hated and refused to use them almost 2 decades, but it works, IG specifically.

Generally you don't really want to give her anymore detail than is absolutely necessary , 8/10 a mans instagram is going to turn a woman off more than its going to turn her on
It'll turn them off for the same reasons that mens OLD profile would: boring, NPC tier pics that don't provide any sense of intrigue, excitement, preselection, indifference, or just flat out bad, unflattering pics.
 
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corrector

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I've been rated a 7 by an AI looks rater, a 9 by a broad on a human 1-10 rater, and an 8.5 by an ex.
I don't get why you are struggling at all with women, like you are potraying yourself on here. Even if you have a psycho-social problem, women tend to be forgiven and even initiate with you if this is the case. However, from your posting it is not the case and perhaps the people who rated you were not being honest with you.

I find that when you try a site like photoreeler, and spend a little money, you'll get an honest rating. I got rated a 3/10 there on average, but there were outliers that rated my looks both higher and lower. It's clear that I'm not conventionally attractive (ie I don't need a site like that to know that, but it confirms it). However, based on your posts and how you are so far with the ladies, I would seriously doubt the 9 rating by that broad, and the 8.5 by the ex, as it's too personal when it's one person doing such a rating. Maybe they want to spare your feelings and are holding back what they really think. Try photoreeler and let us know how that goes.
 

BaronOfHair

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"Online dating has never been worse"

And the quality of the cuisine served up at McDonald's(Never fine dining to begin with)is exceptionally shi-ty these days. Luckily for us, we're underr no obligation to patronize this particular establishment, just as we have no obligation to use online dating

Any of you whippersnappers who still doubt that humans found mates out in the wild, back before the internet, need only direct your attention here
 

corrector

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I don't know how many times it has to be said, but age for men simply does not matter if they retain looks and have money.

If you're talking about AVERAGE men who make less than six figures, don't have a good physique, and have average to below average faces then sure, I buy it,
but men who level up in life are nearly always in their prime in their mid 30s.

You have been fed a lie by feminism or some other garbage source.
What you've said, that I highlighted in bold, basically nullified most of what you have said. Probably still follows that 5-10% vs 90-95% rule in a different way. You can't take something that is the exception to the rule and make it the rule. If you get old, and you are struggling when you are younger, then it will be real blackpill when you get older and have even worst looks and life situations.
 

BaronOfHair

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You can't take something that is the exception to the rule and make it the rule
Yeah, JonBenet Ramsey proved that the American public has zero time for a boobless beauty queen, UNLESS she departs the planet in an exceptionally spectacular fashion. Over 3 decades later, this has yet to be refuted
 
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crowolf

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Recently I've been hearing from numerous instances the opinion that online dating is on a decline. And honestly, I am happy about this.

In my opinion, apps like Tinder (and IG) falsely inflate women's ego and create in them the illusion of abundance of options. And as a result, you have 6s entitled and thinking they are 8s.

Plus from what I've seen, you (as a man) thrive on dating apps only if you can display high status. Even if all the glamour is fake.

I think cold approach is the real deal. It might not be that convenient as swiping on your phone to "meet" a new woman, but easy routes often lead to nowhere.
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

Isildur1

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Really depends how she perceives you and how well structured your instagram is

Women are expert at making assumptions and assessing your value

Generally you don't really want to give her anymore detail than is absolutely necessary , 8/10 a mans instagram is going to turn a woman off more than its going to turn her on

Again if you know what your doing or have a very good instagram it CAN work but if we are honest most men do not have good instagrams its a woman's playground

-----------------------------------------------

Women don't really care about random men until they are in some way invested thats why OLD is such a waste of time you're just too disposable

You literally need to be her idea of a perfect option just to get responses / date , you could say something obscure in the wrong context and a woman on OLD would take extreme offence to it and ghost you

Walking on egg shells isnt a game you want to encourage with females
Yeah my flake rate was way lower from daygame than online- when you make a face to face connection with someone your chances of them flaking are way lower

as long as the interaction is good of course
 

Gamisch

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I don't know how many times it has to be said, but age for men simply does not matter if they retain looks and have money.

If you're talking about AVERAGE men who make less than six figures, don't have a good physique, and have average to below average faces then sure, I buy it, but men who level up in life are nearly always in their prime in their mid 30s.

You have been fed a lie by feminism or some other garbage source.
The six figures fairytale again. We

Source: Google. According to the latest figures by the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, the average salary in USA per month is $5,677 or $68,124 per year. As of 2023, the gross minimum salary in the USA is $32.75 per hour. Salaries range from $32,916 to $112,268 per year and include housing, transport, and other benefits.


Most Americans can't pull a thousand for emergency cases. And. Meanwhile some Gonzalez dude sells flowers or street food and yet comes home to a loving family.

But I am the one who's brain washed? Oops there goes gravity, back to reality..
 
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Divorced w 3

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The six figures fairytale again. We

Source: Google. According to the latest figures by the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, the average salary in USA per month is $5,677 or $68,124 per year. As of 2023, the gross minimum salary in the USA is $32.75 per hour. Salaries range from $32,916 to $112,268 per year and include housing, transport, and other benefits.


Most Americans can't pull a thousand for emergency cases. And. Meanwhile some Gonzalez dude sells flowers or street food and yet comes home to a loving family.

But I am the one who's brain washed? Oops there goes gravity, back to reality..
Everything is relative. What makes you wealthy in Montana doesn’t make you wealthy in New York. Money is just points for being motivated and innovative. What you do with it and allow into your life is your call. Life is a lot easier when you have money.
 

SW15

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Send them your IG, then they're in your funnel....it's much easier this way to just have a funnel system of "leads" coming in passively.... it's laughably easy to start convos with women on IG....but it works, IG specifically.
Most men struggle to get followers on IG, either with their private or public profiles. It's far easier for women to get IG followers.

Most men don't have an IG profile that is going to generate the kind of following necessary to utilize IG well for finding dates and sexual partners.

I don't think it is as easy to get responses to DM's as you think that it is. A man who has 100 Followers on IG but is Following 400 accounts isn't going to get responses. His Followers-to-Following ratio is crap. Most men don't have enough quantity of Followers and they have a lousy Followers-to-Following ratio. Neither impresses women. Women are looking for men with substantial Follower counts (around 1,000+ is good) and men with more Followers than Following. A man with 100 Followers but Following only 60 accounts might be impressive enough with his ratio to warrant responses despite his low Follower count.

NPC tier pics that don't provide any sense of intrigue, excitement, preselection, indifference, or just flat out bad, unflattering pics.
I agree this is a problem on both swipe apps and on IG.

This compounds the Followers-to-Following ratio problem and the quantity of Followers issues raised above.

The six figures fairytale again.

Source: Google. According to the latest figures by the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, the average salary in USA per month is $5,677 or $68,124 per year. As of 2023, the gross minimum salary in the USA is $32.75 per hour. Salaries range from $32,916 to $112,268 per year and include housing, transport, and other benefits.
Income averages get skewed by high income earners. The median (50% percentile) male tells us more. The median male of all ages is earning $63,804 per year. The median 18-24 male and 25-34 male is also likely below that median.


It's a numbers game.
The idea of a "numbers game" in mating pursuits is something that is partially but not fully true. A similar idea persists in the business realms of sales and marketing as well. Dating/mating has commonalities with sales and marketing in business (often areas where the term "numbers game" is used) but it's not fully analogous.

Men will need to do some amount of activity (numbers/volume of interactions) in order to achieve something. That's inescapable.

It's not solely about the quantity of interactions. Quantity of interactions won't mean much if the man's fundamentals are bad or he's choosing the worst places to meet women. It's possible to achieve this way, but the quantity of interactions is going to have to be much higher. When quantity of interactions is higher, there's a much higher probability of many bad interactions.

Doing good things reduces inefficiencies and the quantity of interactions/bad interactions.

A man with poor fundamentals (like an Eliot Rodger type whose vibe was creepy) would be unable to get anywhere near the quantity he would need in order to be successful. Without looks and/or money, the number of interactions will have to go way up. Personality is an attribute that can help but I think looks/money are more important for attraction.

Most guys don't generate enough numbers
I agree with this. The numbers that men need to generate in a lot of cases are immense.


What kind of realistic expectations should you have? Well, depending on your starting point, your mileage will vary. But a solid daygamer should be able to get a number from 25% of the girls he approaches. Out of those numbers, 25% should come out on dates. And from those dates, 25% should end up in his bed. If you think those statistics are depressing then look at your ratios for Tinder or dating sites.
Based on this, a daygamer would need to approach 75 women to get 19 phone numbers, 4-5 dates, and 1 new sexual partner. That's using a strong systematic approach like the London Daygame Model. I think a lot of daygamers need to approach more than 75 women to find a new sexual partner. In a better case scenario, it would realistically take most men a while to do the 75 day approaches to find a new sexual partner. Additionally, in going through this, one would probably want that sexual partner to last for some amount of time based on the effort it takes to approach 75 women in non-bar venues.

Few men 'spam' daygame anymore. I've never seen a 'spam' daygamer in action in my city and I live in one of the biggest cities in the USA. I have done daygame approach sessions in some of the most notable daygame spots in my city. When I do daygame sessions, I am a little bit more selective with my approaches. In a 2 hour session outdoors on a popular walking path, I might only do 5 approaches.

I think that most daygamers will need to do over 100 approaches to get a sexual partner and it will take a lot of time to do that. I don't think most men can 'spam' daygame to shorten that time and I don't think there's a desire on the part of most men to 'spam' daygame.

Bars are supposed a bit better than this because bar attendees are supposed to be single people looking to meet new people. It doesn't always work out like this.

Swipe apps were supposed to solve for the bar problem above and provide an outlet for people in the market to meet and form couples. It hasn't worked out like that in reality and it's been less efficient than older school methods like bars, as Torero mentioned in that quote I have from him above. Here's a YouTube video about a middle of the bell curve guy who did 16,561 swipes on Tinder to get 3 dates that resulted in 0 sexual partners and 0 long term relationships.


Only men in bigger cities can do 16,561 swipes as well. Less populated areas don't have enough population to do that level of swiping.
 

Solomon

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It's a numbers game. Plain and simple. Most guys don't generate enough numbers
^^This also if you have a niche highlight it whatever it may be if you lift weights and in good shape show yourself in outfits that do so
if you're an artsy fellow show yourself painting some **** or something
You have to understand you're market you will not attract every girl or most unless you're a top 10% guy
To many guys trying to get a hot IG thot but they profile looks like dawn of the dead lmfao
 

GoodMan32

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That's what I mean. Send them your IG, then they're in your funnel. If it's a girl from a dating app you can post memes or something and they'll comment and bam you have an in. Btw I'm not suggesting you don't go for a direct approach and just ask them out, but it's much easier this way to just have a funnel system of "leads" coming in passively. But they're much more likely to respond to DMs than texts regardles; it's laughably easy to start convos with women on IG. I've literally had conversations with rando women i've never met, even with an indie female singer. Men love to shvt on social media, and trust me, I have hated and refused to use them almost 2 decades, but it works, IG specifically.


It'll turn them off for the same reasons that mens OLD profile would: boring, NPC tier pics that don't provide any sense of intrigue, excitement, preselection, indifference, or just flat out bad, unflattering pics.
A hottie I DMed with on Quora put me in contact with an instagram model who lives in my area. I then DMed with the instagram model (DMed with the instagram model on Quora. I don't have an instagram)

The instagram model ultimately blocked me on Quora.
 

GoodMan32

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I don't get why you are struggling at all with women, like you are potraying yourself on here. Even if you have a psycho-social problem, women tend to be forgiven and even initiate with you if this is the case. However, from your posting it is not the case and perhaps the people who rated you were not being honest with you.

I find that when you try a site like photoreeler, and spend a little money, you'll get an honest rating. I got rated a 3/10 there on average, but there were outliers that rated my looks both higher and lower. It's clear that I'm not conventionally attractive (ie I don't need a site like that to know that, but it confirms it). However, based on your posts and how you are so far with the ladies, I would seriously doubt the 9 rating by that broad, and the 8.5 by the ex, as it's too personal when it's one person doing such a rating. Maybe they want to spare your feelings and are holding back what they really think. Try photoreeler and let us know how that goes.
I will keep photoreeler in mind.

About the 8.5 rating from an ex, that was when I was 20 (Obviously a 20 year old will, in most cases, look better than a 33 year old. It could be that I was an 8.5 at 20 but have plummeted as the years have passed)

Another thing to keep in mind is every woman has a type. Even if the typical woman wouldn't rate me an 8.5 or a 9, it's possible a small cohort of the female population thinks I'm an absolute hottie.

The AI raters have rated me between a 5 and a 7 (depending on the picture). You're one of the few on here who has seen what I look like. I think the 7 is pretty accurate.

Lastly, you might be underestimating how much a psychological/social deficit can hurt a man's chances (even if he has good looks). Elliott Rodger was a good-looking guy. Yet we all know what his fate was.
 

GoodMan32

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The six figures fairytale again. We

Source: Google. According to the latest figures by the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, the average salary in USA per month is $5,677 or $68,124 per year. As of 2023, the gross minimum salary in the USA is $32.75 per hour. Salaries range from $32,916 to $112,268 per year and include housing, transport, and other benefits.


Most Americans can't pull a thousand for emergency cases. And. Meanwhile some Gonzalez dude sells flowers or street food and yet comes home to a loving family.

But I am the one who's brain washed? Oops there goes gravity, back to reality..
Well-said.

I, despite having a low income, come from a wealthy family (and could easily cover a thousand dollar emergency bill). Yet I haven't had free sex in 3 and a half years.

Yet, as you pointed out, there are impoverished immigrants selling flowers/street food who come home to a loving wife who bangs his brains out.
 

corrector

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Lastly, you might be underestimating how much a psychological/social deficit can hurt a man's chances (even if he has good looks). Elliott Rodger was a good-looking guy. Yet we all know what his fate was.
How easy is it for you to meet women on Tinder? OLD is for people who have social/psychological deficits but look good. In theory, you should get allot of matches and at least one date, no second date encounters if that is the case. If you are really good looking, then you might have more first dates then you have time to arrange for. If your looks are good more women will select and match with you.

The social/psychological deficits come mainly with in-person meeting on the first date and will likely result in allot of first meet-up crash and burn failures but you should have ease with arranging dates in the first place. If you have a large volume of first dates, then eventually out of 5-10 women, one of them might find you attractive enough to them to overlook your social/psychological deficiets or take a more active role in leading things and making it easy for you. How is that working out with you then?
 

GoodMan32

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Most men struggle to get followers on IG, either with their private or public profiles. It's far easier for women to get IG followers.

Most men don't have an IG profile that is going to generate the kind of following necessary to utilize IG well for finding dates and sexual partners.

I don't think it is as easy to get responses to DM's as you think that it is. A man who has 100 Followers on IG but is Following 400 accounts isn't going to get responses. His Followers-to-Following ratio is crap. Most men don't have enough quantity of Followers and they have a lousy Followers-to-Following ratio. Neither impresses women. Women are looking for men with substantial Follower counts (around 1,000+ is good) and men with more Followers than Following. A man with 100 Followers but Following only 60 accounts might be impressive enough with his ratio to warrant responses despite his low Follower count.



I agree this is a problem on both swipe apps and on IG.

This compounds the Followers-to-Following ratio problem and the quantity of Followers issues raised above.



Income averages get skewed by high income earners. The median (50% percentile) male tells us more. The median male of all ages is earning $63,804 per year. The median 18-24 male and 25-34 male is also likely below that median.




The idea of a "numbers game" in mating pursuits is something that is partially but not fully true. A similar idea persists in the business realms of sales and marketing as well. Dating/mating has commonalities with sales and marketing in business (often areas where the term "numbers game" is used) but it's not fully analogous.

Men will need to do some amount of activity (numbers/volume of interactions) in order to achieve something. That's inescapable.

It's not solely about the quantity of interactions. Quantity of interactions won't mean much if the man's fundamentals are bad or he's choosing the worst places to meet women. It's possible to achieve this way, but the quantity of interactions is going to have to be much higher. When quantity of interactions is higher, there's a much higher probability of many bad interactions.

Doing good things reduces inefficiencies and the quantity of interactions/bad interactions.

A man with poor fundamentals (like an Eliot Rodger type whose vibe was creepy) would be unable to get anywhere near the quantity he would need in order to be successful. Without looks and/or money, the number of interactions will have to go way up. Personality is an attribute that can help but I think looks/money are more important for attraction.



I agree with this. The numbers that men need to generate in a lot of cases are immense.




Based on this, a daygamer would need to approach 75 women to get 19 phone numbers, 4-5 dates, and 1 new sexual partner. That's using a strong systematic approach like the London Daygame Model. I think a lot of daygamers need to approach more than 75 women to find a new sexual partner. In a better case scenario, it would realistically take most men a while to do the 75 day approaches to find a new sexual partner. Additionally, in going through this, one would probably want that sexual partner to last for some amount of time based on the effort it takes to approach 75 women in non-bar venues.

Few men 'spam' daygame anymore. I've never seen a 'spam' daygamer in action in my city and I live in one of the biggest cities in the USA. I have done daygame approach sessions in some of the most notable daygame spots in my city. When I do daygame sessions, I am a little bit more selective with my approaches. In a 2 hour session outdoors on a popular walking path, I might only do 5 approaches.

I think that most daygamers will need to do over 100 approaches to get a sexual partner and it will take a lot of time to do that. I don't think most men can 'spam' daygame to shorten that time and I don't think there's a desire on the part of most men to 'spam' daygame.

Bars are supposed a bit better than this because bar attendees are supposed to be single people looking to meet new people. It doesn't always work out like this.

Swipe apps were supposed to solve for the bar problem above and provide an outlet for people in the market to meet and form couples. It hasn't worked out like that in reality and it's been less efficient than older school methods like bars, as Torero mentioned in that quote I have from him above. Here's a YouTube video about a middle of the bell curve guy who did 16,561 swipes on Tinder to get 3 dates that resulted in 0 sexual partners and 0 long term relationships.


Only men in bigger cities can do 16,561 swipes as well. Less populated areas don't have enough population to do that level of swiping.
You mentioned Elliott Rodger.

Even though I would never go on a massacre like Elliott did, it's eerie how many similarities I have with him.

  • Decent looks (even if not 10/10), yet hard time getting a woman
  • Wealthy family
  • ASD
  • social phobia (his social phobia was even worse than mine)
  • self-conscious about being racially mixed (He was mixed with British and Asian, yet wished he was only British. I, despite being entirely Caucasian, am self-conscious about being mixed with Northern Euro and Southern Euro)
  • because of our small size and social awkwardness, we were targets for bullies growing up
  • lastly, my door-slamming at the speed dating event is pretty similar to a story from when Elliott Rodger attended a college party
 

Men frequently err by talking too much. They often monopolize conversations, droning on and on about topics that bore women to tears. They think they're impressing the women when, in reality, they're depressing the women.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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