On being a man... Gubby-style

[Gubby]

Listen up: I'm not a man-man. More like a romantic or artistic man. I care about appearence to some extent. I write poetry, sometimes about feminine things like love. But given, in enjoyment terms, between winning a battle and having a kiss, I'd take the battle (by a small margin). So I'd say I'm definately a Man of some sort.

My relationship with this site has been bittersweet. I readily admit that I've been a bit of a ***** sometimes. I was more interested in the ideas than getting girls, and I managed to make myself a sense of superiority to all those people who were out bloodying their asses on the battlefield (I mean, in the dating arena XD). So I apologise for being a *****. Anyway this will be my last major post as a thinker. If I return to this site it'll be as someone with experience to share. Nowadays I spend more time on Maximkit dot com. To be honest I'd like to forget about forums a bit altogether for a while.

Posted first on Maximkit btw.


*



Reading this stuff about being a man made me more unhappy before it made me happy. I did have the seed of feminist ideas in me, but my strongest drive was my individuality and my feel that I would choose what wass good and evil for myself. In fact, I just wasn't really very conscious about these issues. If I'd only been a bit less unsure, or a bit more successful, I could have never needed these ideas. I could have simply laughed and shook my head in disbelief at the people who make a big thing about this.

Edit.. I'll elaborate with an example. When I told my long-term love and friend, a sort-of-ex about these ideas: that "women want to have a bf who's like a knight in shining armour"... she was confused: she was like.. "yeah? so?" (except said in a delicate feminine way XDDD). She didn't even UNDERSTAND that there could be people who didn't know this. The sort of laughless feminists who want men and women to be sexually neutral just didn't enter into her reality. It took a while to explain to her properly why I actually had a problem. To be honest, it was partly learned. As I read forums like these, I picked up on the idea that sex and love was unnatural even when I read guys like pook who were struggling to show that all you needed was naturalness. I wish that when I'd tried to get a girlfriend and failed, and then looked for outside help, someone had said: "there's only ONE THING you need. To be great. Find that part of you inside who wants to save a helpless maiden while fighting off hordes of enemies. Embrace your pride and your desire for greatness, and become that man. Then you'll have a woman." It was precisely then, when I was unsure, that the feminist ideas started to make themselves heard in me, and I began a vicious cycle that spiralled down into loneliness and pain. So long as I depended on myself I was ok: but when I started needing a guide or a role model, an ideology or a rulebook, society had no-one good to give me; only cults and false philosophies. I tell a lie, this forum exists, as does Pook and Señor Fingers and all the rest, and I have some great friends out there, and society truly is good. Was it all inevitable? Well, no matter, the battle is over and it's won.

So when I said to myself, "BE A MAN!" it was out of fear and actually a feminine thing. It was me doing things to be accepted by others. So it had little good effect. I was already a man by instinct. So trying to change my instincts only hurt me. I became more emotionally withdrawn -- MEN DON'T CRY! Actually I didn't tend to cry anyway. If I did, it was for a good reason. It might have happened 2 or 3 times a year -- the same number of times Krassus goes to Burger King. (I just have a good memory for details -- sue me!!:crackup::crackup

But that's how the cookie crumbled, and now that my head has been the battleground for feminist and masculinist ideologies I now need to grow out of them. So this is my simplified definition of masculinity. It needs no addition as far as I'm concerned, and it's all the masculinist philosophy I intend to live by. I'll cry, write poetry, fall in love, and be weak as much as I like so long as I'm following this philosophy.

TO BE A MAN IS TO LIVE AS IF YOU DON'T CARE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK OF YOU.

Not, "don't care". That's impossible and undesireable (I tried as hard as I could, and froze my heart, feeling neither pleasure nor pain so long as I'd succeeded. If I'd succeeded 100%, I would have died: I nearly did, that's how good I am at getting what I want. Don't try).

So, live as if you don't care.

The rest is bull**** to me.

 

[Technical1]

You've got a lot of gusto and spirit Gubs, bravado and gumption and derring-doo. Hope to still see you around here in the YeArZ 2 CoMe...

 

[Interceptor]

TO BE A MAN IS TO LIVE AS IF YOU DON'T CARE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK OF YOU

WOW, what are a narrow minded view on manhood and masculinity.

Gubby, this is SO NOT it.

Gubby, what you are reacting to, like many young and inexpereinced men and women, are superficial traits, in which you believe there is nothing deeper.

The truth is to be a Man is to understand what people think of you, BUT realize that you have NO CONTROL over their Thoughts, and STILL deal with them anyway. It is about understanding just WHO is important to you, and who you DO care about, and take action FOR those people whom are in your heart. So you take steps in your decisions to be considerate and thoughtful to THOSE people who DO count in your life.
And simply let be others who DONT.
How can one NOT 'care' about what one's Wife thinks? Or one's Parents? Or one's own children?
Can you see the narrowness in this notion?


This is silly and immature. And arrogantly selfish, not ENLIGHTENED Self Interest. There is a difference.

This takes great Emotional Strength, not emptiness or vapidness.
What you see are men whom do not have emotional resources to DEAL with emotions, so they 'check out'.

These Men are UNRESPONSIVE, because they cannot handle emotional strings of attachment, dont you see?

So they 'check out' and DONT DEAL.

Because only a man with tremendous inner strength and a reserve of emotional resources can be strong, take charge, and protect and run a household, lead a wife and raise children, take care of his parents, and pay the bills , do his hobbies, and live his dreams.

Yes, he must still do what HE thinks is right. But he must also have the wisdom and perception to be able to make compromises when necessary. He can plan his life shrewdly , take care of his obligations, live his dreams, and STAY SELF DIRECTED.



Not care what others thiink?

NO.

It is :
Do not be Overly CONCERNED with those people whom truly have NO BEARING or REAL IMPACT on your LIFE. Especially those who wish you harm.
And even then, a good High Character man can still be strong enough to have COMPASSION for those whom feel the need to hurt him in some way.

So even then, it still has its limits, because Compassion is a virtue to be cultivated by the man of High Character

Because Confidence and Faith in ONESELF are the power and fuel which lets you Emotionally Detach from those who bring you no good to your life, and whom their opinion means nothing to you.


What I am referring to is EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT.
I think THIS is what you mean to get across.



But many guys make NO emotional attachment, because THEY CANT. They are unskilled at it, and many are afraid to.


Only a strong man can correctly GAUGE his Emotional ATTACHMENT, and ACT accordingly.

 

[Gubby]

Not care what others thiink?

NO.


Only a strong man can correctly GAUGE his Emotional ATTACHMENT, and ACT accordingly.

Fluffy.

I didn't say not care. I said act as if you don't care.

You go by too many rules. Humans are animals, we need only our instinct. Intellectualism is a form of conformity. Learning a skill is different. But for the most part you don't learn from books or forums, at least not directly. No matter how much you read sosuave you won't learn to get a girl until you do it, for instance. For me the best thing a philosophical idea usually is capable of doing is helping me remove the mental clutter of other ideas.

I created this guideline to provide clarity to myself and to dispense with the need for any other rule. If I need to solve problems in given situations, I will use the resources I have at hand as the situation arises. I don't need to learn a discerning MInD or whatever. I just need my head to be clear and my soul to be free.

 

[Interceptor]

LOL!

Kids say the darndest things!!!:crackup:

Go on now, little boy.
Go play with your dolls or whatever it is you do...

Oh, and if you dont want people to post on your thread, you may want to start your own forum.

 

[Gubby]

Whatever.

Just don't preach humbleness mate, it doesn't ring with you.

 

[Interceptor]

Buggy, I dont know what crawled up your ass, but why dont you learn some respect, boy?



You wanted respect didnt you?

Then be worthy of it, tough guy

 

[Gubby]

Did I?

I'm giving you criticism. Can't you take it well? I tell a lie, in part I was just annoyed at your preachy tone. I don't understand your ideas and I think it's because they're full of fluff.

I will respect people by their worth. You seem to agree with me on this point. Be worthy of it, mr. Guru.

Someone who gets riled up over a little criticism is showing weakness. If you were so wise I suspect you'd be more understanding.

Mental clarity is less ideas, not more.

 

[Interceptor]

buggy, youre getting defensive again...
and youre projecting on me again...



..stop it and follow your rules....

go on now, boy
you know what to do!!

Im on board!!!

 

[Gubby]

buggy, youre getting defensive again...
and youre projecting on me again...



..stop it and follow your rules....

go on now, boy
you know what to do!!

Im on board!!!

You win buggy You were right all along I'll go on now Better go project on someone else who isn't as wise

 

[Interceptor]

Interceptor and Gubby=BFF!

Go get'em, Gubbster!!!

 

[Technical1]

You go by too many rules. Humans are animals, we need only our instinct. Intellectualism is a form of conformity. .

First off, you lose marks all round for not respecting the old school. I used to be equally headstrong, you just dont know how to value an older man's words yet. You will learn after your plan to conquer the world blows up in your face! Just like me! Believe me, it will blow up tremendously and it will make you appreciative of tested wisdom. See the 40 next to Interceptors name? Cut that in half, and you have a rough estimate of how long his philosophy has been tested for. In other words, its good sh1t!

Whats so sadly ironic about this tangent you're on, Gubs, is that you paint a portrait of yourself wrestling over the definition of "Man" while advocating primalism and anti-intellectualism in an exaggerated form. You're actually much farther away from realizing the primalism you advocate– i.e. getting in touch with your manly mojo– than Interceptor for example. So you whip him for some misalignment of your respective concepts.

What the fvck is this thread even about? Whether a true man cares about what other people think or not? Hello, I thought you were a genius Gubs, philosophy of language, relativity of concepts, artificial nature of categorical distinctions? Any of this ring any bells? The biological man in his physical form is the reality, how he *tended* to behave throughout history is the philosophy we shoot for, and how he is conditioned today is the counterpoint to us or status quo. You are so very much at the mercy of your concepts and dont even see it, dear Gubbiffer!

I'm afraid that even in the case of a gifted person like yourself, 18 years just doesn't give one enough life experience to appreciate the true worth of these forums. Look at the other 17 and 18 and 19 year old guys. They dont really get it. They dont know what a goldmine this place is. They ask if they can kino while wearing suntan lotion, and other absurd questions. And thats how silly all this post will look from the remove of a few years and more experience, you rebuffing and verbally tangoing with a goldmine of information whose wisdom other men archive on their computers.

You're still my bro, don't take it too harshly! We all go through it! Thats why they say "teenagers know everything"!!

 

[Technical1]

By the way, are there any young nubile Anglo-saxon expat femmes I can get my mack on with when I come visit you in "Spane"? I have to reconnect to my roots... with vigorous thrusting!

 

[reset]

If you are reading this site and contemplating what you read, really thinking about it.... how could that NOT come out in the "real world". It does to me. I'll find myself in certain situations and in the back of my mind I'll see a little light blue box with sans-serif text on it, (my forum default) and although I can't remember all the words ones that I remember will kind of come to the front in my mind's eye, and I will make a link between the situation at hand and what I've read/discussed here.

What I'm saying is I really contemplate what I read here--on a deep level--and I've found that I'm actually able to recall it, in the moment, on the "outside".

Of course when I was 18 I thought everyone was full of crap and I had it all figured out. Just about every person who matures a little will remember this feeling, of knowing it all. Just a part of growing up.

 

[Interceptor]

You might want to read this part:

And even then, a good High Character man can still be strong enough to have COMPASSION for those whom feel the need to hurt him in some way.

Thanks, guys. Both of you.

We're all in this together.

I am here to help you open your mind, help you learn and grow and sometimes it isn't by me playing nicey nicey.
(you didnt think so , did you?)
Did you get that?

Sometimes there needs to be some sort of catalyst to breakthrough a pattern...
and it isnt about affirming and being 'yes' man.

Rules are there so that the Enlightened and Masculine man can be in touch with his primal animal masculinity and the intellectual side, and control the emotional side of his temperment.

Do you see the reason for balance and Harmony?

The Yin and Yang?

This is Harmony in the Superior and Enlightened man's mind.

The DISCERNING MIND skill NEEDS to be develeoped to be able to see through not only OTHER'S Bullsh*t, bur OUR OWN.


Sometimes we have to fail, and fall down to realize where we have to get up and go...


This is nature.

Everyone still needs to continue reassesing their Values and Beliefs. Because Life for a Man, is constant Self Refinement.
Not a concrete, static, and crystallized conclusion.


Heres something else to think about....

The Wise man seeks to Educate.

The insecure man seeks to Indoctrinate.

Which one will get defensive about his beliefs if challenged?

 

[sam3083]

Both you guys (Technical and Interceptor) claim to be far more knowledgable and experienced then Gubby, but what makes that so? Is it simply the additional days spent living, or is it through application and reapplication of various principles like the one discussed by Gubby at the beginning of this thread, during those extra days of your life?

Personally I have been wrong about pretty much everything in my life in someway at some point. With this in mind I find myself asking myself "If I was so wrong in the past, how can I be sure Im right now?".

So, how did you arrive at these conclusions Interceptor? Surely in your short 39 years (relative to the time man has contemplated philosophy) you must still be making mistakes. Or prehaps you standing on the shoulders of giants has enabled you to see further and become rather enlightened.

This probably stands for Gubby as well, but why should I do what you say, or even believe you? Discounting the fact that your old (jokes).

 

[Technical1]

Both you guys (Technical and Interceptor) claim to be far more knowledgable and experienced then Gubby, but what makes that so? Is it simply the additional days spent living, or is it through application and reapplication of various principles like the one discussed by Gubby at the beginning of this thread, during those extra days of your life?

Application and reapplication of various principles? The stuff Gubby wrote in his post isnt even a principle, its a conceptual net hes caught in while he struggles to construct models of a reality that he hasnt sufficiently experienced. Hes so cerebral that he cant grasp the absurdity of himself chopping out 5 tortuous paragraphs saying basically: "JUST LIVE GUYS! JUST LIVE YOUR LIVES!!!". Just fvck off Gubby and live your own, mate! Gubby's so self-aware of the power of his intellect and how articulate his writing is that he has bewitched himself and remains trapped in an internet reality of self-portrayal minus the real life experience that would entitle him to such opinions and posturing. I mean check out his deviant art account, its whack.

I mean if intellectualism is such a rub, and being a man is so simple, whats this complex overwrought garbage in the original post? Being a man is this, being a man is that. Look being a man isnt even what Pook said it was, its a level deeper even than that. Its something you dont think about and cant articulate- being a man is like peeing, its natural. We're conditioned to not do something thats natural. Hence we use new intellectualism to combat the old intellectualism to return us to our primal state, yet... enlightened! Because of our intellectualism were enlightened.

Pook was off on the Great Man interpretation of history and took great liberties in his interpretation of manhood in order to further this understanding, but I agree with his general premise.

What Interceptor lived through, Gubby is trying to think through. This is what all young people believe: that if you tease and tizzle your ideas enough you can secretely "outrun" everyone else and acquire the distillate of years of experience minus the experience. Usuallly its because they have intellectually outrun their peers (Gubby has), and think they can just keep running, outrunning everyone else too. Well, actually, no I dont think that works.

This probably stands for Gubby as well, but why should I do what you say, or even believe you? Discounting the fact that your old (jokes).

When I discovered this site, I had hit bottom. I was ready for anything, as long as it promised a way out. I adopted their frames, thinking and reality without reserve because I had nothing to lose. It has proved enormously beneficial for me. I'd even run the risk of adopting their errors, as I still have enough time to find out for myself what works and what doesnt.

 

[Interceptor]

Sam, I have been a student of various disciplines of thought,teachings, and of body knowledege.
I have an analytical mind as well, but I am certainly NOT caught up in philosophicalor over intellectualization masturbation.
I can read something that makes sense to me, conect it to an experience I have had, then make an observation, not a conclusion.


I do not see where I made ANY 'claim' about m superior knowledge. This is perhaps your projection me, Sam.


I can see a principle and relate it to something else, something rlevant to myself and to us.

Like any person that offers wisdom, not of it is meant to indoctrinate.

However, Sam, considering your self doubt, and lack of trust, THIS is why you get defensive about your values and beliefs, and why should you pay attention to those that I am advocating.

The less one knows oneself, the lesst trust they will have in themselves and others. The less one knows one's Values the less they will adopt another's and be defensive about their own
This is why you see such huge amounts of problems here at SS about Identity Crises.


And gusee where the Identity Crises comes from?

Men who grow up not havign any Code to live by, becasue they Lack Values and Principle.essentially RULES to live by.


When you dont know what exactly to do in almost any given situation, you are atthe mercy of primal emotional centers of the braqin and neurology that stored fearful patterns in our body.

How to overcome them>

With the rational mind, that has learnd to RESPOND, NOT React.

There responses are what?

Rules that you have experienced as beneficial toyou and have adopted in your life.

Guy; "I think it is important to brush my teeth every day."


Why?

Guy: "Because of hygiene, health, and good appearnace."


Why do you do that?

Guy: "Well, because it is beneficial to me".

But it is a rule,man.
And you say NO RULES.
What gives?

Guy: "I-I-I- I dont know..I guess. Yeah it is a rule I live by."

Yes it is a Code, you care about your health, your body,and your wellbeing.

So in order to preserve that..you simply follow a rule, a Code.
It makes your life easier and more Well Managed.

This is called Self Nurturing. And when you apply this concept to other areas of life it is called SELF MENTORING.

How do these to tie together?
Self Nurturing is the Yin side or Femenine side of Man.
Self Mentoring is the Yang side or Masculine side of Man.

Together there is Balance , continous there is Harmony.



Anything I offer is in the hope for you to look into and adopt as YOU see fit. So that you can learnhow to be INDEPENDENT of anyone, and rely on yourself for survival and well being.


So whatever you adopt in your life which you KNOW is beneficial to you , you adopt and integrate these principles of a GOOD LIFE and Good Living.


These are your Codes to live by, ans a mature masculine man, who lives Shrewdly.

He does the right thing, becasue he has seen others in his life who did not, and they suffered,. so out of shrewdness he now adopts these rules and codes in himself to avoid NEEDLESS SUFFERING and banging his head against the wall.

Why go in circles for Identity?
I dont understand this. There is Great Wisdom out there. I am mereley trying to get my personal expereinces with that Wisdom out here in the forums, and it is for those who have a discerning mind and can tell that I am not bulssh*tting here.



Men searching for an Identity, something to believe in.

"Oh Yeah Why should I believe YOU?"

Well, I say, you dont have to. Do what you want.
But at no time to do you see obvious personal attacks on other people who write a differeng opinion or observation than mine.
What you will see is a challenege to the beleif that they offer forward as a Fact. Not a personal attack on the writer.

Especially when it is from someone which is still strggling with identity, and lacks real world experience as an adult man.





Remember, anything I write is not about dictating to you, or indoctrinating you.
This is why there is sometimes this defensiveness. There is confusion for those who lack experience inlife, and carry too much self doubt.

Because these young men dont know the difference betwen education and indoctrination.

They question everything, which is good...but with disdain and mistrust, which is bad.



For only people who do NOT have 100 percent belief in themselves get overly defensive and fight off any other presentation of another viewpoint.


Look, guys. I live in a whole other world other than here at SS. What you see is a small fraction of myself. I do live in the outside world.
And I want you to do the same. In that way, you can see if what I am writing about really does makes sense. Because you can look back on an experience you had and make the connection and go "Oh yeah..that's what he meant."


Summary,

fact is, no one is forcing anyone to read anything I write, or integrate any advice that I give.

There's no gun to anyone 's head. So step back and take a deep look at your motivations here.


(I welcome discussion, but I will rarely do this and try to justify myself again....)







This is why one needs to look deep within ourselves at our motivation to challenge and question any wisdom shared here.
And apply that whoch resonates with us.
And the rest? Just let it go,man.


Follow your own path. But learn not to be unkind to those who are on a different path.....for he is still your Brother.

Dont learn this the hard way.
Take that as a personal experience form the old man, guys.

Dont do the same mistakes I did.

 

[MrNotebook]

Thanx Gubby....you just put me on to another GREAT forum...maximkit...I LLLIIIIKE it!!!

 

[sam3083]

I do really appreciate both of you taking the time to answer some of my questions.
Also, I figure that we are both rather similar, and that synergistically we can accomplish more as a collective then alone (even though your much more travelled and wise then I am). Even if with yours and others help I can amass your knowledge in a slightly lesser time frame, and condense it once again for another generation.

As far as Gubby's 'prinicple' goes, I've moved beyond that and any 'blissfully ignorant' existence.

One thing I will touch on again is models of god. I, like many others (although they may be hesitant to admit it) look for some kind of leader, god, etc to follow and mould myself in their image.
Obviously, since no one is even nearly perfect, this has been rather disasterous (to say the least, lol). Instead I select my models on singular attributes (for example the communication skills of my English teacher - who happens to be one of the best at her profession in the country) picking and choosing as I please. Also, I'm forever on the look out for new and better models, and always cut away old models when they become apallingly obsolete (something I struggle with though, lol).

Through this I hope to create my own platonic conception of myself. Do this while embracing friends and family, while also developing complete independence from them all.



With this in mind. Am I on the right track?