Objectivism

[SrDedosRapidos]

I wonder if there are any fellow Objectivists or fans of Ayn Rand here.

Please keep the flaming to a minimum. If you're going to attack Objectivism or Rand, please only do so if you have a fundamental understanding of it.

 

[Serialized3]

if i were you, i'd ask myself if i understood "objectivism" beyond ayn rand

 

[SrDedosRapidos]

if i were you, i'd ask myself if i understood "objectivism" beyond ayn rand

What do you mean, exactly?

 

[Rogue]

The following of Ayn Rand created a bonafide cult. Rand denied a cult was created but her devoted inner circle of followers exhibited all the classical hallmark characteristics of a cult. She used her philosophy of rationality to justify a double-sided marital affair, raising skepticism how justifiably she implemented her own philosophy.

 

[Outsider]

Please give me a deeper understanding of Objectivism, or just the basics you pick.

 

[SrDedosRapidos]

The following of Ayn Rand created a bonafide cult. Rand denied a cult was created but her devoted inner circle of followers exhibited all the classical hallmark characteristics of a cult. She used her philosophy of rationality to justify a double-sided marital affair, raising skepticism how justifiably she implemented her own philosophy.

How Ayn Rand applied her philosophy is not reflective of the strength of that philosophy. There certainly are hypocrites in every crowd. Also, it is fine to openly criticize her, further hurting your claim Objectivism is a "cult".You are making some pretty lofty accusations based on little fact.

I honestly do not care to hear your response because I've heard it a million times and I'm not here to argue. I was merely curious if anyone else here followed an ethics of rational self interest. It would seem that at least a minority would because of all the egoism preached on these forums.

Please give me a deeper understanding of Objectivism, or just the basics you pick.

She summed her philosophy up in 4 points;

1. Metaphysics - Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.

2. Epistemology - Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses) is man’s only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.

3. Ethics - Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.

4. Politics - The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man’s rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.

Those are the absolute bare-bones basics.

 

[Plinco]

I wonder if there are any fellow Objectivists or fans of Ayn Rand here.

Please keep the flaming to a minimum. If you're going to attack Objectivism or Rand, please only do so if you have a fundamental understanding of it.

About 90% of the way!

 

[Rogue]

How Ayn Rand applied her philosophy is not reflective of the strength of that philosophy.

That is true but people are irrational and Rand illustrated how irrational people can be while trying to apply rationality. Is her philosophical tenet of absolute truth tenable?

It is fine to openly criticize her, further hurting your claim Objectivism is a "cult". You are making some pretty lofty accusations based on little fact.

http://www.2think.org/02_2_she.shtml

 

[SrDedosRapidos]

That is true but people are irrational and Rand illustrated how irrational people can be while trying to apply rationality. Is her philosophical tenet of absolute truth tenable?http://www.2think.org/02_2_she.shtml

Read: I said there are hypocrites everywhere. No one is going to adhere to their philosophy 100% and to it's fullest extent. Even I am not always rational. What does this mean? Nothing. It means that I have faulted and I suffer the consequences. That is it. This doesn't make Objectivism (or any other philosophy for that matter) the fault in the equation.

As far as that link goes the author sites 5 sources, only 2 of which are writings of Rand herself. Reading it further gives me the impression that the author has little first-hand knowledge of Objectivism and its adherents. It is entirely too easy to point the finger at a group of people and scream "cult!" when you don't know exactly what is going on. Even within Objecitvist circles, Nathaniel Branden is considered an idiot to be avoided.

 

[boomerick]

Check into her history which I found reveals kind of motivations for her therories.....

Middle class Russian family...

Family stripped of wealth and statis by the "collective" during the Communist revolution....etc.

I'd kind of carry a grudge for those I perceived as comming after mine had I been through that kind of crap.....

Reciently her views have been used to justify a lot of bad behaviour in high places....

I'd really roundly study the whole "Rand" deal before I bought in......

Any philosophy can have good points but also any philosopy can be twisted way past its intent......

Educate yourself ....then make your own conclustions......

Over and Out.

 

[Huffman]

I don't care about any complete "philosophy". It's like religion, and people blindly bash on each other about their "true" philosophy.

I did however read The Fountainhead, and it was really mindblowing. I especially liked the idea of selfishness as the ultimate goal. And pity being the worst insult. Nice storytelling too!

I started Atlas Shrugged, it was boring! Everything was so predictable, and the author repeats her point essentially for 500 pages over before we get something new. I should finish it some time, but I fall asleep on every other page.

 

[Rogue]

The flaw of Rand's Objectivism is as thus:

The cultic flaw in Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism is not in the use of reason, or in the emphasis on individuality, or in the belief that humans are self motivated, or in the conviction that capitalism is the ideal system. The fallacy in Objectivism is the belief that absolute knowledge and final Truths are attainable through reason, and therefore there can be absolute right and wrong knowledge, and absolute moral and immoral thought and action. For Objectivists, once a principle has been discovered through reason to be True, that is the end of the discussion. If you disagree with the principle, then your reasoning is flawed. If your reasoning is flawed it can be corrected, but if it is not, you remain flawed and do not belong in the group. Excommunication is the final step for such unreformed heretics.