Never, ever, EVER!!!

[Colossus]

There are some things in life you should just never do, ever! And usually you learn these the hard way...

Never, ever, EVER:

-Ask a woman if she is pregnant

-Ask a woman how many guys she has slept with

-Tell your wife or girlfriend about sosuave!! What you know can and WILL be used against you, trust me. You wouldn't share a fine wine with someone who couldn't appreciate it, and this is no different.

-Talk to your woman like you would with your buds or comrades at sosuave!! Some things should NEVER be said around your woman. You can still state your opinion on a matter, but choose those words wisely. A hole you dug with a poor explanation of something, i.e. why you think feminism is rubbish, can be impossible to recover from.

-Assume she is on birth control. Ever!

-Tolerate ONE blatant act of disrespect. If you don't walk away or put the hammer down, your frame is SUNK.


Add your own if you got 'em.

 

[reset]

-Tolerate ONE blatant act of disrespect. If you don't walk away or put the hammer down, your frame is SUNK.

This is one I'm working on myself. In the past I was more than happy to be walked over in fear I'd lose the girl. Now it seems I go to the next extreme and just shut them out immediately.

I've been reading a lot about the best way to deal with disrespect. The main opinion seems to be "there's something wrong with you if you let disrespect bother you. Just laugh it off or ignore it."

I suppose something can be said for that. And while I pretty much put her on ignore, and don't bother with the verbal assaults anymore, I'm not sure how good my poker face is. I just find myself being really disappointed in the girl and this makes me not really want to be around her. Which means I "failed" the shyt test. Lol. Maybe I shouldn't be phazed, but you learn.

To add, never get into heavy subjects. Politics, religion.... there's a way to do it that is fun and flirtatious, but as soon as you've got what could be an idealogic argument brewing, the fun goes way.

Never ever ever make fun of a girl's appearance. I don't care if it's a neg or whatever, just don't do it. Women care A LOT about how they look and there's never an excuse for having to resort to that.

 

[Heretolearn]

never:

- Think one person/thing is the key to happiness. SOOO many great things in this world.

- try and be perfect.

- be what you *think* someone wants you to be to please them. Be yourself

 

[speed dawg]

NEVER:

1. Piss on an electric fence.
2. Fall asleep on the train tracks.
3. Wrestle with rattlesnakes.

....unless you are aix237. In that case do all of the above.

 

[Colossus]

I've been reading a lot about the best way to deal with disrespect. The main opinion seems to be "there's something wrong with you if you let disrespect bother you. Just laugh it off or ignore it."

This is Bullsh!t. There is nothing wrong with you if an act of disrespect bothers you a bit---youre a human being and you dont deserve it unless you disrespected that person first. It shouldnt eat away at you, but you are a Man and when a woman blatantly disrespects you, you have a duty to ACT. If you do nothing, then you cant be upset if it happens again.

...Which means I "failed" the shyt test. Lol. Maybe I shouldn't be phazed, but you learn.

You only "failed" the sh!t test if you are visibly rattled by it or you dont stand up for yourself and let her know it's unacceptable. How you deal with percieved or overt disrespect is really an art. You can easily undignify yourself by overreacting, but you can also lose any frame by NOT doing something, whether that be walking away or making it clear whatever she did is not ok.

To add, never get into heavy subjects. Politics, religion.... there's a way to do it that is fun and flirtatious, but as soon as you've got what could be an idealogic argument brewing, the fun goes way.

Sooo true. Ive recently had to re-learn this lesson. Women seem to use these topics as a test, whether they are cognizant of it or not.

When the conversation goes into ideological dissagreements it is a DEATH BLOW to the date. The date just went from fun to serious and it's often match point when this happens. You have to be vigilant and steer the topic away from heavy subjects like: politics, religion, opinions on feminism, gays, marriage, kids, etc. Almost EVERY woman I have dated in the last year or so has brought up one or more of these subjects in the first few dates. Keep it light and deflect it from making a serious turn. If you have qualified her through the first stages then you can start to discuss these things.

 

[reset]

You only "failed" the sh!t test if you are visibly rattled by it

This is what I'm getting at though... if you put your foot down you got rattled. Obviously you have to put your foot down, not doing so isn't an option. I'm just saying it's hard to do that with a smile on your face.

 

[jophil28]

This is what I'm getting at though... if you put your foot down you got rattled. Obviously you have to put your foot down, not doing so isn't an option. I'm just saying it's hard to do that with a smile on your face.

This is what I do instead of dredging through all the fine details of what she did, and why it was bad and so on...

I stare at her in silence for at least ten seconds and then say slowly, " I have high standards and clear expectations of women and their behavior."

Then I just shake my head from side to side , slowly turn and walk away.

THis is haughty and somewhat smug and it does the trick because she hears " You are not good enough. You do not measure up."
If you said this directly to a woman ( even a total screw up ) you would get nowhere, however IMPLYING it seems to trigger off a desire in them to make you believe that thay really are "worthy"..

 

[Colossus]

This is what I'm getting at though... if you put your foot down you got rattled. Obviously you have to put your foot down, not doing so isn't an option. I'm just saying it's hard to do that with a smile on your face.

Not necessarily. Putting your foot down doesnt have to be an overt act of "WTF?!?" In the early stages of dating, it is always best to just walk away. You have little invested in each other. Allowing yourself to get emotional is getting rattled. If you get angry or resentful, then it will show, and she will sense the shift in power.

Again, it really depends on what she did. Some things are only perceived disrespect, while others are blatant. Sometimes the best strategy is just to make a polite exit and never give her the satisfaction of an explanation. You keep your dignity and you can move on.

 

[reset]

You guys are making good points. I'm playing some devil's advocate here.

Even if you just say "this is how it is when you're with me", or simply walk away, she's got to think "wow I really pissed him off, look he won't even talk to me---I REALLY MUST HAVE GOTTEN TO HIM".

Thus she perceives a shift in power.

Damned if you do or don't.

 

[bigjohnson]

There are some things in life you should just never do, ever! And usually you learn these the hard way...

Never, ever, EVER:

-Ask a woman if she is pregnant

That one is sort of depending on context.

 

[SharpGame]

You guys are making good points. I'm playing some devil's advocate here.

Even if you just say "this is how it is when you're with me", or simply walk away, she's got to think "wow I really pissed him off, look he won't even talk to me---I REALLY MUST HAVE GOTTEN TO HIM".

Thus she perceives a shift in power.

Damned if you do or don't.

Depends on the power you put behind your words and actions. Too little and you are weak. Too much (yelling) and you are out of control which is, ironically, another sign of weakness. If your tone and actions reflect a perfect balance of power and confidence she will adjust to follow your lead.

I'm reminded of the dialog in 007 Casino Royale (before he went all AFC later in the movie). A great example of how to handle disrespect from women. At one point he doesn't even have to say anything. The part where she starts laughing as he's tying his tie, he just shoots a glare at her that shuts her up. Priceless.

 

[reset]

I hear you guys. Best term I can think of is "bemused annoyance." Like you're disappointed but not surprised.

And to the point about children being reprimanded, after they are done yelling and screaming and slamming their doors and saying "I hate you", they usually get back on track because they need to know their parents will approve of them again.

 

[Desdinova]

-Tell your wife or girlfriend about sosuave!! What you know can and WILL be used against you, trust me.

You too, huh?

It's not a pretty path to venture down. Women don't (and shouldn't) understand real men. These things are usually best left unknown to them because they have a tenancy to read into everything, and they usually get the wrong message from what they interpret. "You're a woman hater!" Try debunking a woman who has formed an opinion about you based on her interpretation of things you wrote online. It's close to impossible.

-Assume she is on birth control. Ever!

Agreed. NEVER leave the responsibility of birth control in the woman's hands. She WILL fvck it up, either accidentally or intentionally. The only person you can trust when it comes to birth control is YOURSELF.

 

[reset]

I agree guru. I suppose I was referring to "shyt tests" where the chick may do something that is stupid. You can either think "nope. No way." or accept that it's a part of the testing phase. Where I am now, I am more likely to just shut the girl out and be done with it. This of course makes the girl mad, and then she tries to see if you mean it.

There's nothing light and fun about it. I know I'm doing something wrong by being so quick to shut a girl out, but whatever.

Here's an example: flirting with other guys in front of me during the get to know you stage. I am SUPPOSED to laugh it off, but all I think is "jesus not again, I can't stand these fvcking games..." and then that's it for me.

They don't seem to understand that's not the best way to get my attention. But it seems that's all they know. And this guarantees that she'll keep doing that sort of thing until she gives up because I refuse to give positive reinforcement to something like that.

Now I'm rambling.

 

[reset]

Just wanted to add guru I seem to recall that it was you who had said we of course should expect women to treat us well, but at the same time, shouldn't expect it because no one ever showed them how to behave in the first place.

I'm having a difficult time distinguishing between girls who just haven't been "trained" and girls who are trouble.

 

[jophil28]

I'm having a difficult time distinguishing between girls who just haven't been "trained" and girls who are trouble.

Yeah. I went through that "phase" of trying to separate out the 'repeat offenders' and the loonies from the "girls who just do not know better but would do better if they were trained" . I believed that they could be informed ,educated or rehabilitated into acting like a decent g/f.
THat was the Capt-save-a ho in my thinking.

Well in the end analysis, I realised that it does not matter WHY they are acting badly. What matters is that their behavoir is NOT to my liking NOW and I just learned to let them go.

A woman is not a project.

 

[reset]

Damn it seems like they all do this though.

Jophil I've been reading a lot of your posts recently on this topic, about the best way to make a stand. You even said not to expect the behavior change immediately, that you'd have to be firm a few times until the positive reinforcement is all she's concerned with. Your opinion seems to be that you are willing to lay down the law and then see the results of that. Even your sig suggests that this is just the way it is. They will test you and you must remain strong.

I suppose what I'm talking about is laying the foundation, the ground rules, at the onset.

 

[RedPill]

never ever EVER

1) Get married.
2) Have kids.

. . .at least not until you become a successful bajillionaire and it won't create any sort of real strain or limitation on your time & energy. I mean really, what's the point? Hot chicks are a dime a dozen and the world has more than enough people to get by. I'd like to think we're beyond the whole 'my genes are important' era of humanity. Besides, it's women who are on the clock to reproduce in their 20s & 30s, not us.

 

[jophil28]

Damn it seems like they all do this though.

Jophil I've been reading a lot of your posts recently on this topic, about the best way to make a stand. You even said not to expect the behavior change immediately, that you'd have to be firm a few times until the positive reinforcement is all she's concerned with. Your opinion seems to be that you are willing to lay down the law and then see the results of that. Even your sig suggests that this is just the way it is. They will test you and you must remain strong.

I suppose what I'm talking about is laying the foundation, the ground rules, at the onset.

Yes, two points here...
a) I have never met a female who believed that her own behavior towards men needed changing .
This is her belief at work, "I am a perfect human being -I am woman " It follows that someone who is so deluded will not see the need to change her ways or cooperate in the change process in any way. You will get OPPOSITION if you try to force this process OVERTLY. This gives us an explanation of women's fierce reluctance to "listen to reason" when you are trying to "logically " explain to her how her behavior is adversely affecting your relationship with her. In her mind YOUR are the one who is always wrong IN ADVANCE , and by default, and so YOu are the one who is obligated to change .
THis is why "open communication" in the style which has been promoted by the relationship "experts " rarely works in disputes. IT was crap advice offered by idiots with a diploma and little real experience.
"Talk it out" advice plays right into the centuries old game that women love and do so well. ..they love just TALKING, but not DOING.

b) If you follow the advice on this forum which frequently suggests that you "walk away" or, as I put it, "silently withdraw your affection and attention" you are in fact implementing Behavior Management 101..." Punish bad behavior and reward the good" . Good ole fashioned child rearing.

Withdrawing your attention is withholding something which she values highly ( and she needs to come to believe that she only gets it back when she fixes her act.)
HOwever, it often requires several "sessions" to send the message that you are serious AND to chip away and dismantle the poor behavior in her to which you object. Patience and endurance is key here.
AS backup, you also need to hold the mindset which will direct you to bail permanently should this process fail totally.
Some women are too mentally ill or too invested in their behavior in spite of the evidence that their "ways" are dysfunctional and nonproductive in the extreme. And some are not worth saving..

 

[reset]

Thanks jophil. I agree, talking about anything, trying to "work it out", is a dead end scenario. That is not the route I choose to take anymore.

In fact what you had said about "silently withdraw your affection and attention" is what seemed to resonate for me, and I have kept that in mind in a recent situation. What seems to happen is once you remove that attention, even subtly, the chick immediately starts freaking out. So, her primary way to see if you mean it, can be to flirt with guys around you.

It's like they bring out the big guns immediately. And while this is happening, in your mind you're thinking "yeah, just as I figured. She's having a meltdown." And she appears to be thinking "oh my god, I'm going to do whatever I can to get a reaction out of this guy.... I can't believe he's serious about withdrawing his attention. In fact, now I'm going to make him seek out MY attention."

Then of course, this gives you even MORE fuel to not want to give her attention. And here is where there seems to be a power struggle brewing. Seems this is very common in the beginning, at first it's nice and fluffy, but if you're not the typical AFC who wears his heart on his sleeve, it's almost like she can't believe there would be a guy who wouldn't come running after her when she starts getting dramatic.

I don't know man. I've learned so much since being here. Women chase after me.... but inevitably there's a power struggle. Maybe I'm showing some neediness to be bringing this power struggle out.

All I know is, if a woman shows me something I don't like, I tend to shut her out, withdraw, no explanations, just an apparent disappointment from me... then she starts freaking out, and making things worse for herself in the process. There has to be some light at the end of that tunnel. It's supposed to be fun... somehow for me it goes straight to "who's in charge here" lol. I'll learn.