"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"

You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.

She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.

Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.

Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.

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My Situation

Kailex

Master Don Juan
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I came out of a LTR after 6 years, and realized, I've never really been in the dating game. Everytime I've been in a relationship, it was with a friend of a friend. So I've never had the pressures or dating at all... until NOW.

At age 29, I realize that not everything is so black and white. I didn't know this was a GAME... and so, here's my situation.

I met this girl that I REALLY like and that I'd definitely want to be with in the long term. I figure, I might as well paint the whole picture here, and I'd appreciate bluntness, even though this forum has been wonderful in pointing out the error of my ways.

Basically, I am new to the area where I currently reside, so, I set a date for our first date, but she picked the place, because... well, I don't know any places. The first date was excellent. We had a great 2 hours, only 2 drinks each. It started out with a handshake and it ended with a nice hug and a kiss on her cheek.

She texted me when she made it home, and said that she liked me.

Now, we had set tentative plans for New Year's, depending on how the first date went, so I jumped the gun a bit, and asked if we'd be having the second date, right after she texted me. She said that she believed we were going to and then we texted good nights.

Fast forward to Thursday evening, I get to her house and she texts that she can't see me, that she's hysterical. Too late, I was already there. She comes out and tells me that a co-worker of hers was just found dead at her apartment, so pretty much date is off. I gave her another hug, and a kiss on the cheek and let her know everything would be okay. I promptly left and she texted me for over an hour, apologizing for ruining New Year's for me. I told her that there was nothing to apologize for and that if she needed anything, that she could talk to me anytime.

I gave her her space on Friday and then decided to call her in the afternoon to see how she was doing. She was doing much better and said that she might want me to visit her in the PM. So, at 8, I arrive to her apartment and I got to meet her mother and all her pets. We watched a movie, and I held her close halfway through the movie, as I put my arm around her and she leaned onto me.

The whole movie I kept wondering when I could get a kiss in. Then, she says she needs to go to the bathroom. She goes and I decide, "THIS IS MY CHANCE". I stood outside the door and when she came out, I pulled her towards me and we kissed. I made sure NOT to stick around too much longer. As I left, we hugged and then another soft kiss on the lips.

We made tentative plans for today, for her to come over and watch a movie.



Now, up until Friday evening, everything was GRAVY in my mind, but then by chance, I looked up tips for the third date and SOMEHOW came across this website. OMG. It blew my mind. So many things I've been doing wrong, so many things I could do different, not only in the past, but currently.

So I've given you half of the situation, now comes the rest:

(1) Everytime we've set a date, it's been mostly her idea, her choosing, of what she wants to do. First date, she chose the spot. Second date, well, I dunno about that, she was still in emotional turmoil, so there wasn't much I could say there. Possible third date, it was HER idea to come over and watch a movie.

(2) Am I going at a good pace? I figured that no kissing on the first date would make me seem respectful, but I was NOT missing my chance on the second date, I didn't care if it was at her place or not. I'm not going to fall in the friend zone... AGAIN.

(3) Last night she went to a company party and I'm sure she'll be wrecked today. I am COMPLETELY sure that she will call me later on to tell me that she's too tired to drive over here. Now this is DEFINITELY where this forum has stepped in. Two days ago I would have said: Well, I can drive over there instead.

But NO, I know what I must say now. No matter what, if she cancels on me, even if she suggests seeing her by driving over, I must resist the temptation and tell her that I will reschedule with her later in the week.

I already learned that I have to stop texting as much as we do. There's anything between 10 to 30 texts a day between the two of us. And if I see her today, it'll be the third time in less than 7 days.

Another thing I noticed was that I am TOO available. Once or twice, she's asked me what I'm doing and I've responded: Whatever you want to do OR Well it depends on what you want to do.

Good lord, how could I have been so dense.

I've been coming off as dependent the whole time and I am truly NOT. I'm just glad I caught this website in time... after reading all of this, I stopped texting her entirely last night while she was having fun with her friends. And I'm not going to text/call her today at all until she makes the next move. I'm not bringing up anything about seeing each other today. I'll let her do that. And if she cancels, no big deal, we can reschedule any other time. If she really likes me, maybe she'll dig this "whatever you want" side of me and want to stick around.

Sorry for the essay, I guess this is my way of asking... is it too late to turn this around for me? How do I go from what I was... to what I know I can become... I want to be the prize... not her be the prize for me.
 

"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"

You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.

Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.

Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.

Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.

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slaog

Master Don Juan
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Everything you say is correct.


1- Theres no problem with her choosing as long as you like it too. If you don't like it lt her know. Maybe if you'd like to go somewhere you could suggest that but at the moment its fine.


2- You were right to kiss her. Be sexual around her and you won't end up in the friendzone. :up:


3- If she cancels don't go over to her place. She'll respect you less if you keep running to her when she asks.
 

Kailex

Master Don Juan
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Yep, just got a message from her saying that she's still far away from home and didn't get much sleep, and asked if we could go out another night.

I simply responded with: Sure. We can plan something later on in the week.

Baby steps I guess.
Like I said, two days ago I would have responded with: Can I just go visit you instead?
Or I would have followed up with: Well how was it, did you have fun, blah blah...

No, she can tell me about her night the next time we go out.
I'm gonna make sure that we do something I want to do on a night I pick, and at least try to regain some assertiveness.

I just texted her this one thing, and that's it. If she wants to talk, she can call later tonight or whatever, but I'm going to keep myself busy and my phone away from where tempting/idling hands might want to text.


And thanks, you two, for the messages above. I appreciate it.

This website is a god-send.
 

Kailex

Master Don Juan
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How quickly I learn, and how quickly I forget at the same time... the teachings of the DJ Bible.

I'm now determined to make this "relationship" a learning experience for me. If it works out, fine... if not, NEXT with some learning on the side.

I went radio silent for the whole day after she text me and said she had a good time.

Fast forward to 11:00 PM and she texts asking me how I am doing. I responded that I was fine and we had a short text conversation.

Where did I screw up? I was busy doing something and she said something about not doing anything on Tuesday night, so I replied with: We should meet up on Tuesday night then.

What I missed was that she said that she might be a mess on Tuesday because the co-worker that passed away, won't be there... so she said: We'll see how I feel.

BLAH.

I tried to regain my positioning by telling her that I had forgotten that I am meeting up with my personal trainer at the gym anyway on Tuesday night (I just signed up this weekend) and that I'd have to reschedule for some other time.

Yeah...
That's when I decided that that was enough texting for the night and said Good night.

Wow, everything I gained over the weekend, I seemed to have lost my footing in just a few texts again.

The beauty of it is that now I can SEE where I am making the mistakes. If she decides that I am too dependent on what she does and decides to NEXT me, that's fine. But now I can see it coming from a mile away from the next girl if I go through this again.

I guess, more to come, as the week rolls by.
 

Kailex

Master Don Juan
Joined
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Just a few days on this website and even the way I talk is changing.

Went from oneitis with this girl to spinning plates.
She texted me to tell me how excited she is about her new apartment.

I said "Congratulations."

She texted something else...

And that was it. I didn't text back.

MAYBE I will call her tomorrow.
Instead, I tried week ONE of the bootcamp, and tried to establish EYE contact and saying HI to people.

Also, decided, I'd try to put some of the DJ techniques to test.
I texted a girl I had gone out with 4 weeks ago with a message saying: Hey, I'm gonna be around in your area tonight and thought maybe we'd have a drink or two tonight.

I knew she got out at 10 PM today, so she responds: I don't think I can today, but can we please plan for the weekend?

I responded: I'll let you know at the end of the week.




I'm trying to move past the "I'm only going to date just one". I want to try my options and see how it goes with different people. I don't want to bog myself down with just one person that could lead to eventual rejection. I'm in control of my life and my dating options. It's time to broaden my horizons.



I didn't text the girl, because I'm a man, I'm busy, I have things to do....... even if I don't.
 

"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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