My name’s Jariel and I’m an AFC

[Jariel]

Don't you hate it when you write a detailed reply and the forum tells you that you've reached your post limit? GRRRR!!

So to summarise my missing post, I totally agree that I've been gaming women differently for relationships than for sex and casual dating, and it's the latter who are always most interested. In fact, I have lingering admirers and stalkers from casual dates/lays going back almost 2 years ago. So whatever I did there, I did it correctly.

There's been an enlightening development in the past days I want to share. I've been on a couple of dates with a girl I met at a Christmas party (mentioned in a previous post in this thread). She's hot, great company, we have loads in common, she's affectionate...but she's acting too keen. I started dating her on the rebound, after the chick from my original post, so my heart hasn't been into it fully and I've been fairly cool with her. Already, she seems crazy about me, really laying it on heavy. She texts me several times a day, wants to meet numerous times a week, keeps complimenting me, has told her family and friends all about me and she's all over me physically too. The ironic thing is, it's starting to scare me off.

I'm now able to see the error of my ways through her actions and how coming on so strong is offputting and decreases one's value. I'm also able to see how important it is for me to play it cool and take a casual approach to dating.

I'm now in a dilemma because I think this girl has such potential and seems like one of life's good people, but do I end it with her now, before she gets too deep and I hurt her too much, or do I take a chance? Unfortunately, I'm finding myself leaning towards the former decision. I realise that this must be a dilemma faced by many of the girls I really liked.

Taking this time to review my game has been really helpful and the advice and support given to me in this thread has been invaluable. Thanks guys, I really appreciate it!

 

[rhcp83]

I'm mixed on your dilemma. On one hand, you get loads of sex with hot women, almost like a celebrity. On the other hand, when you date women that want to date you back, it's like they're just awed by your looks like "Wow I have a really hot guy I'm dating!"

I'm kind of happy I'm just a decent looking, regular guy. Sure the involuntary abstinence can get irritating, but from the women I've dated, they liked "me" not my muscles or anything.

 

[Aaron B]

I'm now in a dilemma because I think this girl has such potential and seems like one of life's good people, but do I end it with her now, before she gets too deep and I hurt her too much, or do I take a chance? Unfortunately, I'm finding myself leaning towards the former decision. I realise that this must be a dilemma faced by many of the girls I really liked.

honestly bro, its just not that serious

why do you let your mind jump forward like that?

it is what it is, and it will be what it will be

 

[Jariel]

I'm mixed on your dilemma. On one hand, you get loads of sex with hot women, almost like a celebrity. On the other hand, when you date women that want to date you back, it's like they're just awed by your looks like "Wow I have a really hot guy I'm dating!"

I'm kind of happy I'm just a decent looking, regular guy. Sure the involuntary abstinence can get irritating, but from the women I've dated, they liked "me" not my muscles or anything.

To be honest I wouldn't consider myself exceptionally good looking or anything and there are plenty of women who aren't attracted to me, but I suppose I'm above average and do seem to do well with the ladies these days.

It is a positive problem I have I suppose as I find it easy to go out and have sex without resorting to warpigs or fat chicks. But it has reached the point where the novelty has worn off and it really feels like I'm just relieving myself. But I find when I'm with someone I am totally into, it gives it a whole new level and that's basically what I'm seeking.

 

[Aaron B]

how can you be so into someone you just met and don't know that well yet?

 

[Jariel]

how can you be so into someone you just met and don't know that well yet?

It depends on the quality of the dates and the rapport you develop. With some of these girls, we've talked and text a lot beforehand and built a connection, then have spent all day together during our first dates, doing lots of different things. Sometimes that can be a great thing, if by the end of it, you're still finding lots of stuff to talk about and you're feeling the chemistry growing. Other times it can be a detriment as it can feel like things have got too heavy too fast, or can feel like you've just had enough of each other and want to go separate ways.

 

[Jariel]

Wow, all day really? I live in new york, so can only speak about my location, but I would say that's pretty much unheard of here. I'll admit that it could very well be my limited experience.

One of the best recent dates I had, I travelled on the train to meet her in the morning, we went for a drink and things seemed to click, so we went from there to a boating lake, for a walk around a nature park, visited a few historical sites, got ice cream and watched the sun go down, went to a so-called haunted house, then chilled out in a bar until it was time for my last train. I wasn't intending to stay any more than 3-4 hours, but she told me she didn't want the day to end and I felt exactly the same. She invited me to stay over at her place where we went back, had sex and spent the night cuddled up in bed. Despite being a first date, by the end of it I felt like I'd known her for ages.

Now, I couldn't do that with just any girl and trying to make it happen will probably backfire, but with her it just felt right and we went with the flow.

 

[Jariel]

did she pursue you for a long time after that? I'm guessing no, but if she did then she was a keeper.

Imo, You 'pushed' alright, but forgot to 'pull' - or rather got too caught up in the moment.

Well that was where the problem lay and the basis of this thread. If I'd left that morning and held back the texting and the affection for a while, things may have worked out, but I continued "pushing" after this date and laid it on too heavy. I told her how I'd had an amazing day, how much I felt we connected, how I felt like I'd known her for years and looked forward to seeing her again. I was basically just echoing things she'd already said during our date, but it's only in retrospect I see what a huge mistake I made. The same mistake I've made with many other women.

I did manage to regain her interest for a while by pulling back and she wanted to meet again, but by that time the dynamic had changed and I felt it better to leave it as a one off, especially considering the distance between us.

 

[floydb25]

Jariel: That's why I always copy what was written, just in case. You never know with technology these days...

What I find most interesting about this "game" is that, its not really the other person who's at fault - its ALWAYS on you, and how you approach the situation. You can act in completely different ways with the same person, and get different results each time. If you come on strong, and act like a chump - they lose interest. If you present a challenge, and man up - they pursue you harder. The same exact person. Even if you do these things at different times. The outcome lies entirely upon you, and how you make them feel. It doesn't matter what kind of person you are doing this with, either.

Likewise for how people treat you in general. If you let them walk all over you, and come off as an easy target - you're just asking to get used and abused. Yeah, you can say, all of these people are evil, and you're so nice; "woe is me"... but its all on you. You're allowing it to happen.

So, whenever there's a repeated cycle like this - the first place to look is inward. It's almost guaranteed that there's something YOU are doing to cause all of this to happen.

I learned this by becoming bad - as a natural reaction to getting burned. When I stopped doing all those nice guy things, and basically didn't care... Suddenly, short-term success was coming. Much like how you aren't putting your heart into this girl right now, and she wants you more. You're just naturally not caring as much, and probably being more confident and independent... And its working. You're not even doing it intentionally.

The key, of course, is to blend both of them together. I call it being a good person with jerk-like traits. Being bad has its short-term advantages, while being good makes you a long-term candidate. That's because bad people have many attractive traits about them - it comes naturally. They have no problems attracting the person, but can't keep them. They're too selfish, bitter, distrusting, emotionally unavailable, etc. The girl gets tired of it eventually. It stops becoming "fun" and "exciting". She typically hates your guts afterwards, and probably wishes you'd die.

The good person, meanwhile, can't even get far enough to last, because there is no attraction. You have to attract them before a relationship starts. So, the nice guy doesn't even start. You can always tell - because the girl usually knows that you are worth keeping around... She just doesn't feel anything for you. You're like the person she wants to marry, but never actually does.

When you mix them both together... Oh yeah. You have the short-term attraction, and long-term appeal. You definitely don't have to be a jerk to attract anyone.

Once you realize these things, you also stop becoming bitter. It's not really that all women are heartless *****es - its just the nature of attraction. Besides, we do the same things. You don't want all of those girls who are pining after you - just as the ones you are pining after don't want you. We only tend to focus on how we're feeling, and what we want. These people pining after you probably feel the same way you do. But, since you don't feel anything for them - you don't care.

 

[Jariel]

Floyd: Great post there mate and I'm totally with you on all points.

I've always been a very introspective person and some of my greatest breakthroughs have come from bad experiences. In the past, I put a lot of my failures down to the women and a lot of advice suggested it was their fault, they were slvts or the wrong type, but if it keeps happening to me, I think it's reasonable to question myself and take a look at what I'm doing wrong.

Hence the reason for this thread.

After reading the replies here, thinking it over, I really believe I've made another breakthrough. I think it's a combination of mistakes rather than one specific thing and I'm going to change accordingly.

The main error that jumps out at me now, that I didn't see before, is how differently I act towards girls I really like and to those I'm not that bothered about or those I just want to fvck and forget about. I believe I just need to act more indifferent with the girls I like, or at least stop laying on the affection so thick.

Once you realize these things, you also stop becoming bitter. It's not really that all women are heartless *****es - its just the nature of attraction. Besides, we do the same things. You don't want all of those girls who are pining after you - just as the ones you are pining after don't want you. We only tend to focus on how we're feeling, and what we want. These people pining after you probably feel the same way you do. But, since you don't feel anything for them - you don't care.

A perfect summary! I've been much cooler with this latest girl I'm dating and she's going crazy for me...just like 90% of the women I act cool with.

 

[Serg897]

The main error that jumps out at me now, that I didn't see before, is how differently I act towards girls I really like and to those I'm not that bothered about or those I just want to fvck and forget about. I believe I just need to act more indifferent with the girls I like, or at least stop laying on the affection so thick.

Im really glad you made this thread Jariel. Sometimes the best lessons are the most painful ones. The past several weeks my mind has been reeling over a rejection (girl just went cold after a month of great times/sex) and I cant stop thinking about her and visiting this forum.

If we really like the girl and she makes a great impression on us, the mistakes we make seem very subtle at the time, and stem from having a different mindset than we would otherwise. I'm starting to believe that the only way to succeed with a woman that you REALLY like over the long term is total self awareness and control, and that this can only be cultivated and applied from experiencing many many rejections from THESE types of women. This is the only way we learn. At least, this seems to be the case for me.

I'm 24 now. I've known about this website since I was 14. I know I've hooked up with far more women than the average man my age, yet I'm still making AFC mistakes. I might as well start a thread with the same title. I really don't know what gives, other than the fact that I'm human and still succumb to a woman's charm far too often.

At the very least, I'm not blowing up her phone now, texting her, or trying to set up more dates until she bites my head off.

 

[floydb25]

The most important thing to realize - for people in general - is that its not really you or the women per se. It's easy to blame women, say they're all shallow, all they want is sex, or even blaming yourself, thinking you're not good enough beyond sex or friendship. This is the best way to become insecure, bitter, angry, and develop low self-esteem, which will just make you fail even more. The worst thing you can do is view yourself as a failure, and assume you're going to keep failing because of these bad experiences. Its much better to take a step back and look at the facts.

The facts are, every woman is different. Every interaction is different. How you evolve and develop your game makes a difference. You can fail horribly with one, then succeed with the next. Some might not find you attractive at all, while others are crazy about you.

This is the trap a lot of people fall into. Then, they think they have to be jerks - only to complain when that doesnt work either - while still blaming women for everything. And vice versa.

With that said, women find you attractive. They wouldn't be dating or having sex with you if this wasn't the case. So, you're already one step ahead of the game right there. Most guys don't even get a chance. They also like who you are as a person. Being called nice or sweet isn't the kiss of death if they find you attractive. The only piece missing is being able to attract the person INTO a relationship. Once you get that, you'll be on your way.

However, you aren't going to be compatible with everyone, and not everyone is looking for the same things. Nothing to do with you. That's why you have to date a lot of different people, and see which ones pan out from there. You cant focus on one girl who you don't even know anything about, and try to enter into a relationship with them. That's why people get divorced...

 

[Alex DeLarge]

This is good stuff Jariel, i suffer from, at times, being animated and kind of over the top with my speech and behavior. Put simply, I get kind of nutty. I think I'm the male version of HPD (Histrionic personality disorder)

But when I'm concious about it and stay cool and calm I'm pretty damn suave because I'm very witty and my humor is clever.
Like you said, be mindful of your posture, voice tone, hand movements should be slow, and deep not shallow breath.

So, if I couple that with ceasing being too loving and infatuated with girls in the early stages I think I'll be alright.

Damn, I totally have this problem too lol. One of my friends actually compared me to McMurphy, Jack Nicholson's character in the film/book One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

I've done crazy stuff with girls on first dates, such as breaking into an abandoned building and making out on the roof/receiving a BJ.. I've even said to a girl at a bar(my last girlfriend; 2 week relationship) "Hey walk with me" and we wound up making out on a train bridge.

I feel like some of the stuff I do with girls (like these examples) are stuff no other guy can (or it's very uncommon) offer, plus it's very reflective of my outgoing adventurous spirit. I've had sky high interest in girls for 1 week to the point where they can't even bear not being around me to absolute coldness the following week.

Maybe we're in the same boat Jariel. I do this kind of stuff, then the girl winds up moving on to some boring AFC guy. (I've stayed friends with a few girls I talked to, and even conversed with them about masculinity and femininity.. Then I see their new boring boyfriends, I don't get it.)

 

[st_99]

, then the girl winds up moving on to some boring AFC guy. Then I see their new boring boyfriends, I don't get it.)

Hey man, you're preaching to the choir. Sometimes I simply cannot believe what some of these girls are choosing over me. I mean, i'm simply stunned. That may sound a little concieted but sh*t, its the truth.

 

[floydb25]

Alex: its because people generalize based on their own failures with the opposite sex. They come up with irrational conclusions, and then act on them - only to find that everything they thought was wrong.

For instance, a lot of people think that you cannot be nice or boring, so they become flamboyant douche bags instead. Or, they try to focus solely on sex. It's all nonsense. And it shows when all these girls date nice guys - instead of the crazy bad boy they thought they wanted. I can't count how many girls were attracted to the nice guy.

What I think happens is that, most guys focus on a specific type of woman. The type that THEY are attracted to. So, they build their entire game around that, thinking its how all women are. Like the bad girl who loves drama and craziness. Do that same stuff with a good girl, and you'll be out of there. Nothing lasts with the bad girl anyway, so you're just wasting time in the first place.

This seems hard for some people to grasp. Nothing you do with certain types of women is going to work. You can be nice, mean, or a damn alien, and you still won't get anywhere with them. It's just the way they are.

You'll find that a lot of these posts - really everywhere you look - relates to the hot, shallow women. That's where all of the so-called nice guys finish last, and try to be bad instead. Being bad doesn't work, either. You're still not going to last. She's still going to be crazy, and sleep around, and treat you like dirt, and lose interest quickly...

You need substance to keep someone around, but you need to attract them to get to that point. It's not as difficult or complicated as many people make it out to be. It's not like this is some grand jigsaw puzzle to solve, here.

 

[TopGun2000]

Hey man, you're preaching to the choir. Sometimes I simply cannot believe what some of these girls are choosing over me. I mean, i'm simply stunned. That may sound a little concieted but sh*t, its the truth.

those girls are usually very insecure or control freaks...

 

[st_99]

those girls are usually very insecure or control freaks...

I'll buy that. I bet this last b!tch I was messing around with was exactly that. Because quite frankly, no way does the guy she is with right now even compare in the least bit to me.

 

[Jariel]

I've just gone back and read some of my threads and field reports from earlier this year. 2 of them really stood out because it showed how differently I gamed women for sex than those I want for a relationship.

Anyone who's having the same issues as me might be able to pick something up from this:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=188623

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=188036

I was a total jerk to one of these girls, although surprisingly we're still on good terms (although not fvcking any more). I don't think many decent women would put up with that, but there is certainly a middle ground somewhere.

 

[Aaron B]

use your logic

when you are first "gaming" a woman, you don't yet know enough about her to determine if she's relationship material for you

you are applying logic correctly by treating women differently based on a distinction that you don't yet have enough information to accurately make

you owe it to the girl you eventually end up in a LTR with to treat her exactly like you treat all the other girls. she wants to earn you over time and be chosen over other girls. you make her feel special by treating her like she's not special.

 

[JonJaper]

I've noticed AFC reversions tend to happen when a quality woman comes along, even with experienced DJs like the OP.

Rollo Tomassi says it best:

"Beware of making a Quality woman your substitute for a ONEitis idealization."

Never forget the main principles that you learnt as a n00b. Don't put a quality woman / potential LTR woman on a pedestal.