My first date with my dream girl - but will there be a second?

[Electro67]

Hey, everyone... I'm new here, just found the forum yesterday and felt compelled to register after reading a few of the threads. Some of the things I've seen here are really helping me to get a handle on my current situation and I'm very thankful for that.

My story is a long one but all these details are relevant, so here goes:

I'm a middle-aged man, a bit overweight but not too bad-looking. I'm laid-back, friendly, have a good sense of humor and have done reasonably well with women over the years although in many cases THEY were the "aggressors", not me. I've never thought of myself as a player or anything but I've had some good luck here and there.

A few years ago I friended a woman on Facebook - neither of us can remember the exact circumstances - and we interacted on a fairly regular basis although most of the time, she didn't pay me any more attention than she gave the rest of her horde of male admirers. She's a few years older than me, VERY attractive, intelligent and has great taste in music (i.e., similar to mine). It wasn't long before I started to develop a big crush on her but I always did my best to not be obvious about it. We don't live very far apart and even made tentative plans to meet up two or three times but she canceled each time. The reasons she gave seemed legitimate so I didn't take it personally, but after a while I kinda gave up on meeting her.

Then, a couple of months after she broke up with the guy she had been seeing - a rather dumpy-looking but no doubt funny and charismatic fella who had managed to impress her with his status as a minor celebrity - something extraordinary happened. She started showing a lot of interest in me - "liking" and commenting on most of my posts and photos, posting stuff on my wall, etc. Naturally I was pleased with this but when she messaged me one day and said I should come down and visit, I was floored! I knew I shouldn't appear overeager but I also didn't wanna play games and miss my chance to strike while the iron was hot, so I sent a short but positive reply and the date was made for that weekend.

The next three-and-a-half days were spent in more excitement and anticipation than I've felt since I was a teenager, but I managed to play it cool on Facebook and let her initiate all conversation. She wrote again a couple of days later with restaurant suggestions, we agreed on a specific place and a time and the plan was set. My only private message to her after that was a one-liner on the morning of: "See you soon!"

I showed up pretty much on time (just a few minutes late due to traffic) and there she was, looking even more gorgeous than in her pictures. I don't know how I managed to do it, but even though I was a bit nervous the whole time (she's the girl I've been dreaming about for a couple of years, after all) I managed to not make an ass of myself for the whole time we were together, seven hours or so. Sure, I may have made a couple of minor faux pas along the way, and I think I might have missed a cue to give her a real kiss when I dropped her off at her home, but I left that night feeling that the date had gone pretty well.

Then I got home and made mistake #1: I messaged her right away to tell her that I had a great time and would like to see her again. She wrote back quickly and said yes, I had a good time too and yes, we should get together again and check out a different restaurant. I went to bed that night feeling all was right with the world.

The next day, I knew something was wrong. She was on Facebook but not interacting with me at all, no comments or anything. A couple of days later I sent a very brief message (one or two sentences) in reference to something we had joked about during our time together and her response was short and standoffish. You get the picture: it seemed as if the interest she had shown in me prior to our meeting had totally evaporated, despite that fact that our date was definitely not a disaster. I was starting to think that maybe she really hadn't been too impressed with me and had only hung out with me as long as she did because she knew I had to drive a couple of hours each way to be there.

After feeling really ****ty and down on myself for a couple of days, I plugged some phrase like "aloof after first date" into Google and found one of the threads on this forum. It's been quite an eye-opener to say the least. Although I can't undo whatever damage I may have done from seeming too eager immediately after our date, I have been virtually ignoring her since yesterday and... whattaya know? She started "liking" some of my posts again. I'm going to keep this up for a while and see if it results in contact from her. After a couple of weeks, I suppose I'll just gird my loins and drop a hint about a second date. I don't think I have much to lose at this point, do I?

So there ya have it. Your thoughts and comments are much appreciated.

 

[Electro67]

Oh, by the way, I see a lot of unfamiliar terminology being used on this forum. Is there a glossary so I can get up to speed? Thanks!

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Hey guy, welcome to the forum! Okay, my first suggestion: click on the link in my signature and start listening to my podcasts - they are FREE, and will help you analyze a LOT of the things you're doing WRONG with women.

Secondly, STOP MESSAGING HER ON FACEBOOK. My mantra is that texting/messaging a chick KILLS relationships. Even if you use it to get the date, you should be saving the majority of your conversations for the actual DATE. She's not trying to build a relationship by talking to you online - she wants to do it in person.

Thirdly, stop waiting for HER to make all these moves. She set up the first date and gave you a shot, then told you she had a good time. At this point, the ball is in YOUR court. YOU need to be the one to make some plans (thus showing her you're actually working to impress her); YOU need to be the one to CALL her (not message her like most AFCs would - that's "Average Frustrated Chump" btw, check the dictionary of terms on this site for other vocab); and YOU need to be the one to ask her out again.

Now, when you ask her out, she'll say one of three things:

1. YES! (That means "Yes)
2. I can't make it that day, but how about this other day instead? (That's called a "counter-offer," and it means "Yes")
3. Oh, I'd love to, but I'm busy that night... (Doesn't make a counter-offer = NO. Women rarely say the actual word "NO," so not counter-offering is their way of doing it passive-aggressively.)

And these are just the basics, but you get the idea. In short: ask her out again via a PHONE CALL and gauge her response. Hope this helps!

 

[JaegerPilot217]

Hey, everyone... I'm new here, just found the forum yesterday and felt compelled to register after reading a few of the threads. Some of the things I've seen here are really helping me to get a handle on my current situation and I'm very thankful for that.

My story is a long one but all these details are relevant, so here goes:

I'm a middle-aged man, a bit overweight but not too bad-looking. I'm laid-back, friendly, have a good sense of humor and have done reasonably well with women over the years although in many cases THEY were the "aggressors", not me. I've never thought of myself as a player or anything but I've had some good luck here and there.

A few years ago I friended a woman on Facebook - neither of us can remember the exact circumstances - and we interacted on a fairly regular basis although most of the time, she didn't pay me any more attention than she gave the rest of her horde of male admirers. She's a few years older than me, VERY attractive, intelligent and has great taste in music (i.e., similar to mine). It wasn't long before I started to develop a big crush on her but I always did my best to not be obvious about it. We don't live very far apart and even made tentative plans to meet up two or three times but she canceled each time. The reasons she gave seemed legitimate so I didn't take it personally, but after a while I kinda gave up on meeting her.

Then, a couple of months after she broke up with the guy she had been seeing - a rather dumpy-looking but no doubt funny and charismatic fella who had managed to impress her with his status as a minor celebrity - something extraordinary happened. She started showing a lot of interest in me - "liking" and commenting on most of my posts and photos, posting stuff on my wall, etc. Naturally I was pleased with this but when she messaged me one day and said I should come down and visit, I was floored! I knew I shouldn't appear overeager but I also didn't wanna play games and miss my chance to strike while the iron was hot, so I sent a short but positive reply and the date was made for that weekend.

The next three-and-a-half days were spent in more excitement and anticipation than I've felt since I was a teenager, but I managed to play it cool on Facebook and let her initiate all conversation. She wrote again a couple of days later with restaurant suggestions, we agreed on a specific place and a time and the plan was set. My only private message to her after that was a one-liner on the morning of: "See you soon!"

I showed up pretty much on time (just a few minutes late due to traffic) and there she was, looking even more gorgeous than in her pictures. I don't know how I managed to do it, but even though I was a bit nervous the whole time (she's the girl I've been dreaming about for a couple of years, after all) I managed to not make an ass of myself for the whole time we were together, seven hours or so. Sure, I may have made a couple of minor faux pas along the way, and I think I might have missed a cue to give her a real kiss when I dropped her off at her home, but I left that night feeling that the date had gone pretty well.

Then I got home and made mistake #1: I messaged her right away to tell her that I had a great time and would like to see her again. She wrote back quickly and said yes, I had a good time too and yes, we should get together again and check out a different restaurant. I went to bed that night feeling all was right with the world.

The next day, I knew something was wrong. She was on Facebook but not interacting with me at all, no comments or anything. A couple of days later I sent a very brief message (one or two sentences) in reference to something we had joked about during our time together and her response was short and standoffish. You get the picture: it seemed as if the interest she had shown in me prior to our meeting had totally evaporated, despite that fact that our date was definitely not a disaster. I was starting to think that maybe she really hadn't been too impressed with me and had only hung out with me as long as she did because she knew I had to drive a couple of hours each way to be there.

After feeling really ****ty and down on myself for a couple of days, I plugged some phrase like "aloof after first date" into Google and found one of the threads on this forum. It's been quite an eye-opener to say the least. Although I can't undo whatever damage I may have done from seeming too eager immediately after our date, I have been virtually ignoring her since yesterday and... whattaya know? She started "liking" some of my posts again. I'm going to keep this up for a while and see if it results in contact from her. After a couple of weeks, I suppose I'll just gird my loins and drop a hint about a second date. I don't think I have much to lose at this point, do I?

So there ya have it. Your thoughts and comments are much appreciated.

were any of these women that were the aggressors good looking in your opinion?

 

[Electro67]

STOP MESSAGING HER ON FACEBOOK.

Check. Fortunately, I realized that was a mistake after only a couple of short messages and backed off. I don't think I did much (if any) damage there outside of the big mistake of sending that "had a great date, wanna see you again" message as soon as I got home.

Thirdly, stop waiting for HER to make all these moves. She set up the first date and gave you a shot, then told you she had a good time. At this point, the ball is in YOUR court.

That makes a lot of sense, but her current aloofness tells me that now is not the time to do it. I don't know if she's playing a game (trying to maintain the upper hand) or if she's genuinely not into me, but perhaps ignoring her and going about my business for a more few days will help to resolve that question. Am I wrong?

Now, when you ask her out, she'll say one of three things:

1. YES! (That means "Yes)
2. I can't make it that day, but how about this other day instead? (That's called a "counter-offer," and it means "Yes")
3. Oh, I'd love to, but I'm busy that night... (Doesn't make a counter-offer = NO. Women rarely say the actual word "NO," so not counter-offering is their way of doing it passive-aggressively.)

Based on my 30 years of experience (on and off) in dating, I find this quite accurate.

And these are just the basics, but you get the idea. In short: ask her out again via a PHONE CALL and gauge her response. Hope this helps!

My gut tells me that calling her on the phone would make her feel put on the spot and she might not react well to it. But for a younger woman who is more readily influenced by playful banter, I suppose that would work very well. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Electro67]

were any of these women that were the aggressors good looking in your opinion?

Some were very good-looking.
Some were pretty decent.
Some were average.
All of them took the initiative and I LOVE that

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Think about the logic of what you're saying:

"My gut tells me that calling her on the phone would make her feel put on the spot and she might not react well to it..."

So, by this logic, you're saying that texting/messaging her would work better... which you've done, and gotten no response to. Furthermore, you're assuming that calling a girl puts her on the spot to give you an answer about a date... which is what you're wanting from her currently via message but not getting... and you're of the mind frame that putting her on the spot might result in a negative reaction from her... which would be... what, exactly? Having to give you a "yes" or "no" answer to your date proposal?

The number 1 complaint I've heard during my last few years of dating is that all guys want to do is message them, and that they'd prefer a phone call. In which case, the only time a girl would react negatively to you calling her... would be if she had no interest in going out with you in the first place. Because a girl that DID want to go out with you would interrupt you with a "YES" midway through you asking her out.

And by the way, you're not calling her to have "banter" with her, or flirt with her, or talk to her for x-amount of minutes in hopes of getting her interested enough in you to say "yes" to a date. You're calling her specifically to ask for the DATE - that's IT. All that other stuff can be saved for when you see her in person, which won't happen if you don't CALL her and ask for the date.

Dating 101, my friend - these are just the basics...

 

[JaegerPilot217]

Some were very good-looking.
Some were pretty decent.
Some were average.
All of them took the initiative and I LOVE that

awesome, love that, glad to hear it!!!, was this back in your teens and 20's?

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

Attention *****. Her recommending restaurants for a first date is a huge red flag. That means you're getting used for a free meal. You're Mr. Backup Plan. You're the guy she messages when she has no better options.

 

[Electro67]

awesome, love that, glad to hear it!!!, was this back in your teens and 20's?

Mostly in my 30s and especially my 40s, to be honest. I got very little action in my teens and twenties and I was thinner and better-looking then. Go figure.

 

[Electro67]

Attention *****. Her recommending restaurants for a first date is a huge red flag. That means you're getting used for a free meal. You're Mr. Backup Plan. You're the guy she messages when she has no better options.

When she initiated the date, she didn't say anything about having a meal; she just wanted to meet up. I'm the one who suggested a meal and she was being helpful, I think (and showing initiative) by suggesting a couple of places. Remember, I was coming from a couple of hours away and she knows her town much better than I do.

 

[Electro67]

Anyway, I think I got this thread off to a bad start by focusing on the post-date communication and kinda glossing over the date itself. After spending a couple of hours reading chapters in the DJ Bible (which has left me feeling quite energized and renewed, by the way), I realize now that most of the problem was with the date, not the follow-up.

What I did right:
1. Showed up well-groomed, well-dressed and with a clean car.
2. Arrived on time (actually 3-4 minutes late), not early. She was there waiting for me, not the other way around.
2. Kept an easygoing, relaxed manner through the date and didn't act like I was trying to impress her.
3. Did not suck up to her and agree with everything she said. Was not afraid to engage in a little good-natured teasing.
4. Maintained eye contact and kept the conversation flowing. Rambling on boring subjects was kept to a minimum although I did slip into it a couple of times. (Bear in mind, this was a 7-hour date).

What I did wrong:
1. Opened the door for her every time she got into my car (the date involved a few different stops). I was trying to be a gentleman but it think it annoyed her a little after the first couple of times.
2. Acted like a pal instead of a potential lover, did not act flirty at all or attempt physical contact outside of the friendly hug when we first met. I touched her arm/shoulder lightly once as we were crossing the street but that was about it.
3. Tried to fill lulls in the conversation. I probably would have been better off just gazing into her eyes and smiling when there was a pause. Nonverbal communication is important, too.
4. Allowed the conversation to stay on the topic of her ex for too long.
5. Brought her a gift, a box of chocolates. Yeah, I know - big rookie mistake. But in my defense, I gave it to her at the very end of the date.
6. There were several times when she may have been dropping hints for future dates but I didn't pick up on them at the time. I was in a little bit of a fog the whole time, to be honest, probably because I still couldn't believe that I was actually on a date with this woman whom I'd been dreaming about so long.
7. Was slow to pick up on some of her humorous remarks (brain in fog, see above).
8. Just took two little kisses when she leaned in to say goodnight, did not not try to draw her toward me and make it into a real kiss.

So, now I'm thinking that she may have been pretty disappointed in the date and (despite our first cordial exchange afterward) this might be the cause of her acting distant toward me now. I appreciate the advice given above but my gut tells me that it's best to give it a little time before I really start talking to her again. Let the disappointment fade, let her see me being my usual charming self (on Facebook, at least) and let her remember why she was interested in me in the first place. And oddly enough, I really do think that'll happen sooner if I appear to be paying little or no attention to her.

 

[JaegerPilot217]

Mostly in my 30s and especially my 40s, to be honest. I got very little action in my teens and twenties and I was thinner and better-looking then. Go figure.

These women that took the initiative, were they younger than you? Like 20 something women?

 

[Electro67]

These women that took the initiative, were they younger than you? Like 20 something women?

It varies: some younger, some older, some around my age. I really don't discern a pattern except that since I've always been reluctant to be aggressive, the women who DID get with me over the years were the ones who were willing to take the initiative.

Today I'm feeling an almost overwhelming need to send my Facebook girl a "clear the air" message... but I'm not gonna do it! Standing firm.

 

[sylvester the cat]

Referring to this lady as your 'dream girl' isn't going to do you any favours. You are pedastalizing her which is a form of worship. And you know that worshipping anything other than the one true GOD is going to bring you nothing but trouble:

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

 

[JaegerPilot217]

It varies: some younger, some older, some around my age. I really don't discern a pattern except that since I've always been reluctant to be aggressive, the women who DID get with me over the years were the ones who were willing to take the initiative.

Today I'm feeling an almost overwhelming need to send my Facebook girl a "clear the air" message... but I'm not gonna do it! Standing firm.

well glad to hear there are some assertive women out there, glad it's not literally always on us but that doesn't mean i'm gonna hold my breath for that

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Just going over the "What I did wrong" section of your post...

What I did wrong:
1. Opened the door for her every time she got into my car (the date involved a few different stops). I was trying to be a gentleman but it think it annoyed her a little after the first couple of times.

This is not really an issue - I've been doing this maneuver forever, and girls tend to appreciate it yet be shocked by it at the same time. Regardless, it's not a misstep.

2. Acted like a pal instead of a potential lover, did not act flirty at all or attempt physical contact outside of the friendly hug when we first met. I touched her arm/shoulder lightly once as we were crossing the street but that was about it.

For a first date, you don't need to be all lovey-dovey - flirting here or there is cool, but I tend to only initiate the touch portions of things if SHE has initiated touch first. That way I know she's comfortable with it. If you get to the end of the date and she hasn't tried to touch your arm/shoulder or accidentally bump against you, she's most likely not into you.

3. Tried to fill lulls in the conversation. I probably would have been better off just gazing into her eyes and smiling when there was a pause. Nonverbal communication is important, too.

I had this same problem back in the day - it basically stems from trying to think about "safe" topics to talk with her about. Girls are usually open to all kinds of conversation, and they can also revel in the silent moments as well. The whole "gazing" thing may have ended up being too intense for a first date, though, unless she was doing the same to you.

4. Allowed the conversation to stay on the topic of her ex for too long.

Correction: allowed the conversation to involve talking about her ex at all. Exes are a NO NO on first dates (and second dates, and third dates, and...) If she starts bringing it up, you can always politely or jokingly say "Whoa, whoa, whoa! No need to hear about the ex on the first date!" I don't allow those convos to happen anymore - they're not helpful for the situation.

5. Brought her a gift, a box of chocolates. Yeah, I know - big rookie mistake. But in my defense, I gave it to her at the very end of the date.

Yeah, no gifts until she's the girlfriend, which would ideally be at around the 3rd month. And don't think she'll hate you for it - most girls are, surprisingly, a bit perturbed when guys start getting them gifts early on. It makes it seem like they're trying to barter for their affection - a woman should be having her feelings grow for you via the time you're spending with her on a date (where you're already spending money). If she's asking you to get gifts for her that early on, she's only dating you for the gifts.

6. There were several times when she may have been dropping hints for future dates but I didn't pick up on them at the time. I was in a little bit of a fog the whole time, to be honest, probably because I still couldn't believe that I was actually on a date with this woman whom I'd been dreaming about so long.

No biggie - you needn't be agreeing to future dates this early on anyway. It takes away the challenge for her and makes you too predictable. It also makes you seem like you have no other options at the moment - yes, it seems like this would be a good thing, but when you start dating a woman she needs to get an idea that other women may be desiring you or taking up your time. So, you actually did a GOOD thing by being so blind to what she was saying.

7. Was slow to pick up on some of her humorous remarks (brain in fog, see above).

Eh, it's whatever. Sometimes it just happens.

8. Just took two little kisses when she leaned in to say goodnight, did not not try to draw her toward me and make it into a real kiss.

Were these kisses on the cheek? On the lips? At any rate, it was a first date, so it's not always a requirement to go for the kiss - heck, I have found that it makes them wonder if you found them attractive, thus causing them to slightly doubt themselves. Then, when I'd take 'em on the second date, they'd be wanting to prove to themselves that I found them attractive.. which would result in me getting a more passionate kiss than I would have on that first date anyway!

Hope this helps... again!

 

[Electro67]

Thanks, good stuff! Looking over your critique of my critique, I suppose I didn't do quite so bad after all, although I definitely detected some discomfort on her part when I gave her the chocolates and I regretted it almost immediately.

She didn't initiate any physical contact outside of the friendly hug when we first met and the two short kisses on the lips when we parted. I was thinking the second kiss may have been her giving me a chance to make a move, but who knows?

Despite my earlier comments about playing a no-contact or minimal-contact game with her to see if she becomes intrigued by me again, I'm feeling more and more now that I wanna go direct and throw down the gauntlet. If I'm gonna fail with this woman, I'd rather go out in a manly blaze of glory that slink away like a sullen child while some bolder dude sweeps her away.

Come to that, she just posted a photo on Facebook and it looks like she's out at the same restaurant tonight, presumably on another date. Arrrgh, I can't stand it!

But if all of this is for naught, if I really screwed up my chance with this woman, at least it gave me a wake-up call to shake off the creeping midlife melancholy and insecurity and start believing in my own worth again.

 

[JaegerPilot217]

David Wygant can help a lot on this

 

[Mike32ct]

In my experience, sending the post-date "I had a great time" text NEVER works. I lost every female I tried it on.

I dropped that like a bad habit lol.