Might have a sticky situation on the horizon(long)...mature and serious input welcome

[Wyldfire]

Double post...browser lagged.

 

[Sinistar]

Sinistar, although I think you make some valid points, I think if you simply rule out hords of people for 1 detail without taking a look at the complete picture, then I think that is closed minded & immature.

Point taken.

Regarding closed mindedness & immaturity. I suppose I come across as cold and ruthless which may partially be the result of writing not being my #1 passion. After experiencing some of this life (from my POV) I've come to learn that people with 1 big *detail* tend to have more big *details*. Does it make them a bad person - no - it just makes them a person. However, when we find ourselves searching for a reason/jusitification to overlook that *detail* I think it's a good time to stop and think (which Wyldfire is doing). And more often than not I've found that people (like Wyldfire described) resulted in negative experiences in my life. By negative I mean, endlessly helping, waiting, broken trust, lending money, etc. And I associate those times with being less mature because in reality, the best thing I could have done to help them was to not enable them in the first place. Live and learn.

I have also noticed that just about everyone with a big *detail* or two comes from some type of troubled past. Does that make them a bad person - nope - just another person. However, their underlying frame in which they reside usually carries a troubled value system with it.

I'll give two examples.

First, a woman I briefly dated several years ago. I'd give her a HB8.5 easy. Very nice to talk to. And over the course of a few dates I could sense something wasn't quite right. So I just let her keep talking. Soon enough I found out there were kids (from two separate fathers) living in her home. And she had been married 3 times with a 4th LTR just ending. And her father was and still is a lifelong alcoholic. In those few dates (combined with her actions) I could tell that LTR with her would just not be possible. Throwing out the fact she was a single mom wouldn't matter - she just did not have the right value system and principles to form lasting relationships. I knew I could have done everything in the book and it still would not be possible. I didn't lead her on, broke things off and moved on.

Next, a good friend of mine. A retired Army Ranger Officer. The son of an alcoholic father and brother to an alcoholic sibling. Early in his adult life he realized how his father's lifestyle had affected him and he took steps to understand it and be aware of when that value system was affecting his (ie Al-Anon, counseling, etc). Years later he is one of the most stable, reliable good friends I could ever imagine having. He realizes that he will for the rest of his life have to be aware of how alcoholism (of another) will affect the choices and decisions he makes. He has demonstrated through actions - not words - that his big *details* are under control and a non-issue in my book.

So perhaps I come across as close minded and immature - I'm okay with that.

However (from my POV) I believe I am more open minded, patient and mature than ever. I enjoy (after finally being unplugged) being able to quickly and clearly see the difference between example #1 and example #2 above. And then using that knowledge to move forward with my life instead of spinning my wheels or going backwards.

If you'd like to avoid hijacking Wyldfire's thread and want to discuss this more lets start another thread and we can kick this around next week.

 

[Wyldfire]

Sinistar...you mention a friend you view as very stable, reliable and that his *details* are really non-issues because of how he deals with them. That is the benefit a person gets from 12 step programs. I am a 14 year veteran of Al-Anon. My fiance (who was in prison and later died) is a favorite target of people who flame me. People here judge me negatively over my involvement with him...and make assumptions. He had over 4 years in AA (another 12 step program) when I met him and he was one of the most amazing human beings I ever met. His location was far from ideal, most certainly...and he made his share of mistakes in life...but anyone who has any kind of time invested in a 12 step program tends to be very emotionally stable and healthy.

Now, if DF had a couple of years in a 12 step program I would most probably feel pretty good about giving him a shot. Being clean is good, but I know it's NOT enough. I don't know if DF is in NA or not. If he is, he should not try to have any romantic relationships for at least a year into working the 12 steps. These are all things that I'm thinking about and this thread is here because I think it's extremely important for me to handle this situation very carefully. DF needs someone who understands the 12 steps to support him and provide guidance here and there. It's my responsibility to give back to the program that changed my life...it's part of the 12 step "code" and practice of "giving back". I care about DF because he is my daughter's father. It's in her best interest to offer support and help to him.

You are confusing that sense of responsibility to my child and my gratitude to the 12 steps and perceiving it as something other than what it is. You should not assume things because when you operate on assumptions you will almost certainly be very wrong in what you perceive.

 

[Wyldfire]

Wyldfire...

I'm not going to sugar coat this. I read your first post. When I combine that post with your history (ex-husband + exfiance killed), I cannot help but think about how TRAILY TRASHY your life experience appears to be.

I commend you for going back to school. But, you are in no position to be giving advice in this forum.
Get hold of your life. You are going to be a grandma soon. Time to set example for your children.

Here we go again...

1) My ex husband was my only relationship screw up...and I recognized and fixed what was flawed within myself upon ending my marriage back in 1994. Some of the guys on here seem to have a great deal of hang ups over my past marriage...but I don't. I moved on.

2) My fiance was 4 years into a 12 step program when I met him. Yeah, he had made mistakes too...and like me, he recognized them and overcame them. He was an amazing person. Again...some of the guys on here also have hang ups over my fiance...but I don't. We had an amazing relationship and losing him sucked...but I moved on.

3) I'm NOT going to be a grandmother anytime soon. My son's girlfriend has a physical/medical problem that she takes medication for. She was never pregnant...the medication messed with her hormones and menstrual cycle causing a late period and false positive test. My son is almost 19 years old and an adult. I am not in control of his sexual activity, nor should I be. Would you blame your own mother if your girlfriend thought she was pregnant (but wasn't)? Would you hold her accountable for how you chose to handle the situation? Of course not...so why do you even bring this up?

4) I have set an excellent example for my children. I don't drink. I don't do drugs. I don't bring men in and out of their lives. I am honest. I work hard. I am a good person. I don't break the law. I don't allow anyone or anything around my children that would cause them harm. In the 13 years since I left my ex husband only ONE man lived in my home with my children and I and that was my fiance.

My life is just fine, thank you very much. In fact, I dare say that my life is far more stable and respectable than the vast majority of the people who post on this forum...and my advice is always scores better than the overwhelming majority of the other advice found on here.

 

[Phyzzle]

One more thing to say: you basically told this guy that you wouldn't have a romantic relationship because of the drugs.

If you came here for a guy's opinion: on the chance that he stays off drugs, and you give him a place to crash, he most likely will be expecting some sort of romantic relationship. That's just how guys think. I satisfied the logical conditions for a relationship, therefore, I get the relationship.

 

[Bad_Lil'Pixie]

Your rebuttal after rebuttal simply shows you've already made up your mind to take him in once he makes a play.

All the validation you are seeking will not help when your daughter and you are suffering the consequences that very well could arise.

It is just sad that you are going to drag your child into this "sticky situation".

 

[MacAvoy]

Honestly, I think Phyzzle and Lil'Pixie summarized the situation better than any one could have on 6 pages. I guarantee what they speak will be the truth.

 

[Wyldfire]

One more thing to say: you basically told this guy that you wouldn't have a romantic relationship because of the drugs.

If you came here for a guy's opinion: on the chance that he stays off drugs, and you give him a place to crash, he most likely will be expecting some sort of romantic relationship. That's just how guys think. I satisfied the logical conditions for a relationship, therefore, I get the relationship.

I'm not going to "give him a place to crash". He lives two states away and our daughter asked him to come visit. I told him a couple of months ago that he could stay here for a visit. I have a sleeper sofa that I told him he could use in order to spend time with our daughter.

I'm not going to allow him to just move into our home. I'm letting him crash on the couch to see his kid.

Anyhow...I'm pretty sure I've decided how to handle the situation of him asking to get together if it happens. I'm going to put my decision in a separate post after I respond to those who have posted.

 

[Wyldfire]

Your rebuttal after rebuttal simply shows you've already made up your mind to take him in once he makes a play.

All the validation you are seeking will not help when your daughter and you are suffering the consequences that very well could arise.

It is just sad that you are going to drag your child into this "sticky situation".

Not all of my posts have been "rebuttals". Again...you make an awful lot of assumptions...and each one of them have been quite wrong.

I'm not seeking validation...I've been thinking out loud while I process my thoughts, feelings and sort through it all to figure out what I believe will be the best course of action.

You seem to be of the mind that I should completely cut my daughter's father out of her life. You seem convinced that his involvement in her life would be harmful. For a chick that spends an awful lot of time on here patronizing the most radical, hateful and whacked guys on this forum (the anti-feminist set), you sure don't sound very "father-friendly"...but I digress.

I am NOT talking about some boyfriend...I am talking about my daughter's father. He's been her father for 7 years. For under 2 years he's made his life a bit of a mess, that is true. However, to be FAIR, a person must look at the ENTIRE picture. For 5 of those 7 years he was a very loving, involved, responsible and attentive father. When his life went to hell it was HIM who distanced himself from our daughter because he didn't want her to be affected by his sh*t. He missed her and loved her during that time...but it was more important to him that she be protected than it was for him to see her as he would have liked to do.

The second you implied the attitude that I should hurt my child and her father by keeping them apart was the second anything you post on this subject loses all credibility.

 

[Wyldfire]

Honestly, I think Phyzzle and Lil'Pixie summarized the situation better than any one could have on 6 pages. I guarantee what they speak will be the truth.

I wouldn't place any bets, MacAvoy.

 

[Wyldfire]

Okay...here is my decision on how to handle the situation I suspect I'm going to be faced with:

First, as a 12-step program veteran, I will offer to provide moral support and someone to talk to because that is not only my responsibility, it's also the right thing to do. Giving back to other 12 steppers is a virtue and that service is the reason these programs work.

Second, if he asks to get romantically involved or attempts to make that happen I will remind him of my position on drugs and tell him that he hasn't been in recovery long enough for me to consider that. I will explain to him that because we have such a good parenting relationship and get along so well it would be incredibly foolish for us to risk messing that up, and that him trying to have a serious relationship so early in his recovery will serve as a distraction from him doing the 12 step work that he needs to be doing. I will also tell him that if, after a year of being out of jail, clean and consistently working the 12 steps, he is still interested in getting together then we can talk about it then. If he brings it up again after a year and has not slipped at all and has gotten his life complete in order then I will seriously consider giving it a go. If he still has work to do I will tell him that we can talk about it again in another 6 months if he wants that.

If he proves that he wants to be a family badly enough to really sort through all his stuff and keep his nose clean then I will give him a chance...but I'll continue to postpone it until I can honestly say that I am really confident that he can handle the responsibility and won't fall apart again. IF it eventually comes to a point where he's really ready and is solid in his recovery and he wants to make a go of it then it won't be just moving in together and jumping into new roles...it will have to be dating first and going from there.

 

[Latinoman]

I honestly believe you have live life (when it comes to sexual relarionships) the same way trailer trashy type lives it.

You are in no position to give any advice. And by the way, I find it pathetic that you don't advice your son from getting trapped... But you come in here to give advice?

It is time to take charge of your life. And I ADVICE you start doing it by closing your legs and avoiding addicts, ex-convicts, and trash from entering you and worst...impregnating you.

Tough words...I know. But you are a single mother and have little kids. Time to get your life together!

Good luck.

 

[Wyldfire]

I honestly believe you have live life (when it comes to sexual relarionships) the same way trailer trashy type lives it.

Um...I am 41 years old and can count my sexual partners on ONE hand. I have only had ONE fling in those 41 years. That lasted a couple of weeks. I've NEVER had a ONS...not even one. I was a virgin until I was 18 years old and married the first man I had sex with. I have never cheated on anyone in my life. While my fiance was in prison I went over 4 years without sex because I loved him. Currently, I have abstained from sex for a little over 6 years because I don't do casual sex and I fell in love with my best friend who lived on the other side of the country from me. Yeah...I sure do have the sexual behavior of "trailer trash".

You are in no position to give any advice. And by the way, I find it pathetic that you don't advice your son from getting trapped... But you come in here to give advice?

My son is almost 19 years old. He and his girlfriend love each other. They thought she was pregnant (it turned out to be a false positive) and he wanted to raise his child. He is an ADULT. Not all guys hate the idea of being a father. Get over it, already. A guy is only "trapped" if he doesn't want the baby...my son DID want his baby while he thought there was one. It turned out she was not pregnant, though.

It is time to take charge of your life. And I ADVICE you start doing it by closing your legs and avoiding addicts, ex-convicts, and trash from entering you and worst...impregnating you.

First off...if you're going to call someone "trailer trash" then you damn well better stop making so many spelling and grammar errors because it's actually YOU who sounds like someone whose home has wheels.

The "closing your legs" comment is hilarious seeing as I have been celibate for over 6 years. Again...it is idiotic to make assumptions.

Tough words...I know. But you are a single mother and have little kids. Time to get your life together!

Good luck.

I am a single mother...but MOST of my children are not little. My 3 kids from my 10 year marriage are 21, almost 19 and almost 17. I have ONE young child who is 7 years old and it is HER father who this thread is in reference to.

I have my life together, thank you...and before you ADVISE me on anything you need to brush up on your reading comprehension, spelling and grammar.

 

[DJDamage]

All I have to say is that women don't listen to logic, they only listen to what they feel inside and will follow it if it means it will achieve them happiness. It is why women do crazy bat sh1t that doesn't make sense but it does to them because they don't care about right or wrong black or white but only if there is a great potential of reward in the end and that is their own happiness. There is no convincing a woman once she made up her mind and this thread should have been closed after the first page.

There is a reason why captain-save-ho AFC will never ever be able to convince his "girl-friend" to drop her abusive drug dealing ex con boyfriend because SHE LOVES HIM! and that will triumph anything.

 

[Wyldfire]

Thank you to those of you who offerred CONSTRUCTIVE input. I appreciate those who actually took the time to read the thread and base their comments on the facts and responses. To those who made assumptions, didn't bother to read the thread, interjected totally useless flame-baiting posts and allowed their own past and emotional baggage to influence their comments...you shouldn't be handing out advice on specific situations because you are incapable of being objective.

Ironically...I have decided to deal with DF in the exact same manner that I did with my best friend who developed a much worse drug problem 4 years into our friendship. My best friend and I loved each other very much and we both wanted to be together...but I refused because I won't have drugs in my life. I told him that if he got clean and stayed clean for a year and got his sh*t together that I would be with him. His addiction had gotten far worse than DF's and he ended up dying last August. If I'm strong enough to resist the temptation to be with someone I really did want to be with because of drugs then I won't have any problems at all saying no under the same terms with someone I don't have anywhere near as strong feelings for.

 

[Bad_Lil'Pixie]

Thank you to those of you who offerred CONSTRUCTIVE input.

Meaning, 'those that offerend me validation' for skipping down YET ANOTHER foolish and unhealthy road.


*sigh* silly silly girl.

If you want to believe that after being clean for about 6 months after a couple of year drug spree AND once he's out of prison that this man will make a great lover and dad, you go right ahead. By you taking him in he won't have to go back and live in mommy's house or hunt for employment, you will be his hero and it will make you feel so good inside for helping him. Forget about self-respect, forget about the emotional health of your child, forget the risk of more drugs being brought in the house, don't worry about his sexual health while he was with a known drug user for those years, none of that matters, who cares, it will be fun and you'll get laid. Woo Hoo! Go for it.

silly, silly girl.

 

[MacAvoy]

Wyld, you've turned into a women making excuses & defending yourself... that should tell you something

 

[grinder]

Your rebuttal after rebuttal simply shows you've already made up your mind to take him in once he makes a play.

All the validation you are seeking will not help when your daughter and you are suffering the consequences that very well could arise.

It is just sad that you are going to drag your child into this "sticky situation".

Remember I told you once: “A man convinced against his will remains of the same opinion still….”

You do what most do, including myself occasionally: you have a pretty good idea what you are going to do anyway and you throw it out their just to see if anyone has some strong and clear argument for or against the position you have already taken.

This is wise, as we know from the psych field, having an objective view of one’s life and decisions is almost impossible from the INSIDE looking out.

You have gotten some strong and clear arguments that, unfortunately, do not jibe with your current self-view.

Don’t fight them or tear them down, just roll them around in your head a bit. That’s all.



Alright, enough with the heavy crap.

Anybody else think of Danko Jones' "Sticky Situation" when you read this thread.

Checkitout. Go Toronto!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPmF42ZI5h4

 

[Paradox]

Nevertheless, your whole life has been spent around low-rent scumbags. That's a great example, I'm sure.

If you taught your kids to be better judges of character than you are, to forget about trying to "fix" or "help" people, because people rarely, rarely ever change (much), this would help about 1000 times more than what you are doing right now.

Easiest way to avoid "stikcy situations" in life is avoid scumbag-type people. You can't even argue against this logic. The only reason to stick around scum-types is the forlorn hope that you can actually do much of anything to help them.

I feel that this thread has probably reached it's end.

Closed.