Michael Sartain: Approaching Strangers is Dead

[BaronOfHair]

...it is obvious Sartain and Rollo have become hustlers at this point.

Everyone on YT is an attention monger, trying to sell something, or both. It's incomprehensible to me that so many folks remain unaware of this fact of life in '25

 

[BillyPilgrim]

It's probably age dependent. I'm 50 and can easily pull girls from online dating apps between 45 and 52. When I meet these girls for dates, they are clearly more attractive than any girl at the bars I take them too. I would say online dating is the easiest way to meet girls above 40. Under that age, I don't have experience, but it is obvious Sartain and Rollo have become hustlers at this point.

They've got some hotties on Match (at least in my area of Phx, AZ)

 

[PlatoPacks23]

the biggest issue by far is being labeled odd or as some people have said, having an interaction posted or discussed online negatively. even from a year ago things seem to be dramatically different.

 

[Pandora]

Either you got spit game or you dont. It can still work but you have to be cold with it. Its a talent.

The it factor is some combo of being funny, charismatic and decent looking.

You can get laid with in person approaching but you just gotta approach like 40 girls. It depends on the city too.

I was in NYC last year and me and my boy ( he is cold with it) picked up two chicks. Almost smashed. To be fair though they were not hot. They were 6s at best.

 

[SW15]

It's probably age dependent. I'm 50 and can easily pull girls from online dating apps between 45 and 52. When I meet these girls for dates, they are clearly more attractive than any girl at the bars I take them too. I would say online dating is the easiest way to meet girls above 40. Under that age, I don't have experience

There is age dependency. Sartain made a passing comment in the video that he perceive women 35+ are more open to being met via random real life approaches and online dating websites/apps (mainly apps at least in the 35-44 set in 2025, as that is the older Millennial segment).

It's somewhat difficult to meet available women in their 30s/40s through real life methods so I can identify with the reasons why someone would try to meet women through tech methods in that age range.

They've got some hotties on Match (at least in my area of Phx, AZ)

Have you been on Match recently? It would be interesting to know if it has changed. I think it is a hub for old people based on what I know about it now.

Caleb Jones (aka Alpha Male 2.0, Blackdragon) has proposed an idea that that every online dating technology, whether it’s a website, an app, or a service, goes through five phases of effectiveness. This has been true to him going back to video dating profiles in the 1980s. I like this framework as a whole, even if I don't entirely agree with it. I think he does overstate some effectiveness in earlier phases with it.

How To Be Successful With Online Dating FOREVER - Alpha Male 2.0

Every online dating technology, whether it’s a website, an app, or a service, goes through five phases of effectiveness. When you understand these phases and you use them to your advantage, you will no longer be worried when a certain dating site, service, or app stops working or doesn’t work as...

alphamale20.com

Caleb pulled most of the ideas from that 2020 article from this 2015 article.

There Is No Hookup Culture - Alpha Male 2.0

Enable Dark Mode Enable Light Mode Get Free Email Updates! Join us for FREE to get instant email updates! -By Caleb Jones Several of you have emailed me this article which has been making the rounds lately, lamenting about the “hookup culture” caused by apps like Tinder. At the same time, I’ve...

web.archive.org

Match has been in Phase 5 (Niched) for a long time. Caleb claimed it was in Phase 5 in both 2015 and 2020.

In 2020, Caleb said the following about Match.....

Today, unfortunately, Match.com is niched. The best way I can think to describe it is “the place where divorced people over the age of thirty go to find their second spouse.” If you’re a divorced guy who’s 42 and your only goal is to find another wife, you’d go to Match.com. If you’re not in that category, it’s pretty much useless. I don’t even recommend it anymore.

In 2015, Caleb said the following about Match.....

Today, Match.com has entered its fifth phase. It's really only effective for over-30 beta males looking to get over-30 divorced women as serious girlfriends or wives. For that niche, it works very well. For everyone else, it’s pretty rough. I’m not saying that you can’t get laid on Match if you’re outside of this niche, but you’re going to have to work really hard at it.

Even if I were interested in online dating, I don't think I'd be interested in Match.

Sartain also claimed that online dating is ineffective for all but elite tier SMV men (90th-95th percentile +). If we combine Sartain's ideas with Caleb Jones' ideas, Sartain is coming to the conclusions that he is coming to because Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge are all in his Phase 4 (Difficult) and Phase 5 (Niched). In 2020, Caleb Jones said Tinder was in his Phase 4 and likely to hit Phase 5 within a few years (it has likely gotten there in 2025).

 

[SW15]

Either you got spit game or you dont. It can still work but you have to be cold with it. Its a talent.

The it factor is some combo of being funny, charismatic and decent looking.

You can get laid with in person approaching but you just gotta approach like 40 girls. It depends on the city too.

I was in NYC last year and me and my boy ( he is cold with it) picked up two chicks. Almost smashed. To be fair though they were not hot. They were 6s at best.

I think there's some city dependency with it that would need further exploration.

A lot of the Sun Belt cities that receive a lot of adult transplants (Dallas, Phoenix, Houston, Denver, etc) are cities where online dating is strong. Adult transplants tend to have weaker social circles. Approaching is possible in pockets in Dallas and Phoenix (cities where I have experience) but online dating has supplanted a lot of approaching in the Sun Belt cities. Each city is somewhat different, but that's the general trend.

The techy, more woke Western USA cities (San Francisco, Seattle, Portland) are also online dating centered. Social skills are more stunted in these cities. San Francisco's dating scene is mainly educated, careerist women and STEM worker autist/borderline autist types trying to mate. Anyone can imagine that wouldn't be a pleasant experience.

Getting laid in person requires a lot of volume. @nicksaiz65 does this as he'll do 30-50 approach nights when he goes out to bars in a certain Sun Belt city.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I haven't seen that particular video but I've seen him talk about this subject. I do agree that it's dead, though moreso nightlife. I still think daygame is extremely viable and effective when it's done incidentally.

Also, he may be trying to push his course but that doesn't mean he's wrong. Pre selection is so powerful that cold approach becomes almost irrelevant. It seems like a far better use of your time to build pre selection than cold approaching.

 

[SW15]

I still think daygame is extremely viable and effective when it's done incidentally.

How do you propose to do daygame incidentally?

Daygame is a tough endeavor, because the majority of women between ages 18-49 aren't seeking new penis at the moment they are approached in a non-bar setting. That is a major disincentive for doing daygame.

It's inefficient and high effort. It does take a lot of approaches to get something out of it.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

I'm going of my experience. I have done
Daygame approaches i.e. malls, day parties, food festivals, etc
Nightgame approaches i.e. bars, clubs, etc
Social circle approaches i.e. friend groups, house parties, frat parties (in my 30s, yes I was getting into frat parties in my 30s and some folks here have seen the receipts)
Online dating

I'm going of my experience the term quality is subjective, not objective here is no universal metric that deems someone quality or not it's based on what you value as an individual so, yes in my experience and with my metric Social circle, I have found better quality women than the others

That's fine, but you're missing the point.

You claimed that your social circle garnered more quality women, as if there's something intrisically about social circles that spawns quality women.

If you approached those same women at a grocery store, would her quality be of any less?

So, if you meet her at the grocery store, she is of less quality than if she was in your social circle...meanwhile, it's the same fuking woman!!



Man, some of the stuff you guys say defies logic.
...

And what you said about women labeling men creepy and the data supporting it..

Show me data of a single infield report of a man approaching at least 50 women, and at least 20% of the women labeling him creepy and or ostracize him publicly.

As a man that's approached hundreds of women, I can tell you; that's bullshiit.

What your doing is nothing short of fear mongering, and confirmation biasness.

It is not the way to teach men.

We are to teach these fellas to be bold, brave, and confident.

Not to be scared, puzzy cats.

 

[SW15]

Show me data of a single infield report of a man approaching at least 50 women, and at least 20% of the women labeling him creepy and or ostracize him publicly.

The Sub-5 approacher in this video approached 100 women and got harsh blowouts (either labeled creepy or public ostracization) on 42% of approaches. 38% of his approaches had simple rejections.

It's possible.

Most guys who are labeled creepy aren't doing enough volume of approaches. Socially awkward men typically won't approach more than a few women per month.

You claimed that your social circle garnered more quality women, as if there's something intrisically about social circles that spawns quality women.

If you approached those same women at a grocery store, would her quality be of any less?

So, if you meet her at the grocery store, she is of less quality than if she was in your social circle...meanwhile, it's the same fuking woman!!

The same woman has the same qualities. I agree with your general point there.

Female accessibility can be affected by the manner in which she is approached. There are women who will give a man more extended consideration if he's initially put into her presence through common acquaintances or a common hobby group vs. a cold approach or app swipe.

 

[Mike32ct]

The Sub-5 approacher in this video approached 100 women and got harsh blowouts (either labeled creepy or public ostracization) on 42% of approaches. 38% of his approaches had simple rejections.

It's possible.

Most guys who are labeled creepy aren't doing enough volume of approaches. Socially awkward men typically won't approach more than a few women per month.



The same woman has the same qualities. I agree with your general point there.

Female accessibility can be affected by the manner in which she is approached. There are women who will give a man more extended consideration if he's initially put into her presence through common acquaintances or a common hobby group vs. a cold approach or app swipe.

I think it’s much worse if a sub-5 (or otherwise unattractive) guy physically walks up to a woman.

At a bar, for example, he would be better to just turn his head and try to engage women right next to him. If they ignore him or the conversation quickly dies out, just let it go.

The only downside is the number of “approaches” is much less. But that goes with the territory. He should not be doing mass approaches at any venues anyway.

Do you agree?

 

[SW15]

I think it’s much worse if a sub-5 (or otherwise unattractive) guy physically walks up to a woman.

It is.

The worst approachers are the ones who come up from behind. If you're running street or mall game (including urban walking paths where I tend to do street game in my city), you don't want to do the typical azz clown type move where you run them down, turn your body around, and face them. Females have caught on to that and it is considered cringe now. Here are examples of that, both done by an admittedly novice approacher.

In street or indoor retail venue approaching, it's always better to walk up to a woman while facing her. Walking up to a woman in a bar or non-bar venue is going to present challenges, both for Sub 5s and Normies (using categorization terms that Wheat Waffles uses).

The only downside is the number of “approaches” is much less. But that goes with the territory. He should not be doing mass approaches at any venues anyway.

Mass approaching is better for men with at least average tier looks, but even that's not the best idea.

Mass approaching is going to lead to a lot of rejection, especially in non-bar approaching where the majority of women between ages 18-49 aren't seeking new penis at the moment they are approached.

When I approach in non-bar settings, I tend to see how the conversation is going before offering a date. A lot of my conversations fizzle out naturally before a date is offered. They aren't actual rejections but are more soft no's. I sense that most of my soft no's come from women in existing relationships, but I can't be sure about that since they never disclose their boyfriend (or even husband) status to me. I rarely encounter women with husbands since I tend to approach mainly in urban neighborhoods that have mainly non-married residents. In some venues, I will try to get a glance at a woman's hands before making the approach. I don't want to waste my time talking to married women, even unhappily married women.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

The Sub-5 approacher in this video approached 100 women and got harsh blowouts (either labeled creepy or public ostracization) on 42% of approaches. 38% of his approaches had simple rejections.

It's possible.

Most guys who are labeled creepy aren't doing enough volume of approaches. Socially awkward men typically won't approach more than a few women per month.



The same woman has the same qualities. I agree with your general point there.

Female accessibility can be affected by the manner in which she is approached. There are women who will give a man more extended consideration if he's initially put into her presence through common acquaintances or a common hobby group vs. a cold approach or app swipe.

Response coming soon.

 

[BaronOfHair]

It is.

The worst approachers are the ones who come up from behind

Yeah, coming in from the side, like so

0:35 is a demonstration of true proficiency

 

[DonJefe19]

The conversations around day gaming in this thread is too much in the minutia. Yeah, I get it that it's a skill and there are some mechanics to it. However, we seem to think there's a meta to day gaming and we have to add objective measurements to it just so we feel like we're progressing. It seems we're mistaking overthinking for dissection.

I think it should be simple: If you're scared of rejection and you have anxiety, then "approach" women until you're not scared anymore. If you ain't scared anymore then find your tribe and mingle.

 

[BaronOfHair]

The conversations around day gaming in this thread is too much in the minutia. Yeah, I get it that it's a skill and there are some mechanics to it. However, we seem to think there's a meta to day gaming and we have to add objective measurements to it just so we feel like we're progressing. It seems we're mistaking overthinking for dissection.

I think it should be simple: If you're scared of rejection and you have anxiety, then "approach" women until you're not scared anymore. If you ain't scared anymore then find your tribe and mingle.

As someone else said, if you continue to think of this stuff as "game", as opposed to one component of being a man... Well, you'll keep playing games, rather than really getting your needs and desires met

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

.

First off, thanks for providing the video.

The Sub-5 approacher in this video approached 100 women and got harsh blowouts (either labeled creepy or public ostracization) on 42% of approaches. 38% of his approaches had simple rejections.

It's possible.

Most guys who are labeled creepy aren't doing enough volume of approaches. Socially awkward men typically won't approach more than a few women per month.

I saw the video in its entirety..but I don't think it represents what the beef was about.

Nor do I think the video is accurate, as it was comparing apples and oranges..which is fallacious, and I'll explain why.

@Solomon had made the point that this new generational wave of women is more likely to view a guy who approaches them as creepy, and/or leaving the man open for public ostracization.

Now, the first video of the Sub-5 guy's harsh rejection would seem to prove Solomon's point (that women will label you creepy).

But wait a minute, the first video of the Chad's light rejection would seem to prove MY point (that most rejections will be light-hearted and/or polite).

So, the two videos cancels each other out.

This would be the same as if I showed you a video of Steph Curry missing ten 3 pointers in a row...but then I showed you a vid of him making ten in a row.

Based on the two opposing videos, you aren't able to determine if he is a good shooter or not.

More information is needed.

In order for the video (that you provided) to hold weight...the sub-5 guy would have to approach the same woman that the Chad guy approached, and vice versa.

We don't know if the woman that gave the sub-5 guy the harsh rejection, would have given the Chad the same treatment.

We also don't know if the women who gave the Chad the kind rejection, would have given sub-5 the same treatment.
.......

Now, as a guy that approaches hundreds of women (and counting) I can tell you, from personal experience...90% of all my rejections have been polite (I am tempted to say 95%, but I'll leave it at 90%.)

Women have noted my boldness, and have even been complimentary towards me, even while rejecting my advances.

Do I think it is something about me that allows women to be complimentary towards me?

No. It ain't about me.

It is something about the women...women aren't some monsters from outer space who are ready to berate or chastise you for approaching them.

Sure, in a world of over 4 billion women, it can happen...but these are anomaly situations, and you will only know how rare these women are, only if you get out there and see for yourself.

*****

On that note, Ive been thinking of doing this anyway, but I am constantly inspired by @Plinco 's cold approach journal...and I'm going to do some infield, hidden cam, cold approaching...and have a little fun with it, by having you guys guess which ones rejected me and which ones reciprocated.

I've been thinking of doing this for a while, and it's about to go down.

Just need to research for the right camera and the proper cam placement.

Show you turkeys how to do this.

 

[SW15]

as a guy that approaches hundreds of women (and counting) I can tell you, from personal experience...90% of all my rejections have been polite (I am tempted to say 95%, but I'll leave it at 90%.)

My politeness upon rejection rate has been similar to yours.

Most of my rejections are actually soft no's. That's where the conversation fizzles out quickly, usually within 30-60 seconds before I offer an invitation to a future social outing.

In order for the video (that you provided) to hold weight...the sub-5 guy would have to approach the same woman that the Chad guy approached, and vice versa.

We don't know if the woman that gave the sub-5 guy the harsh rejection, would have given the Chad the same treatment.

We also don't know if the women who gave the Chad the kind rejection, would have given sub-5 the same treatment.

This is a good point but unlikely to happen.

That Sub-5 and that guy around an 8 were approaching women at different times in different geographies.

The Sub-5 was mainly doing retail game inside malls and at Target. I think the 8 went to similar venues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think there's less of a culture of approaching in recent years based on what I'm observing in my own time in the field, from others, and from the internet.

Approaching at bars is getting less common.

Non-bar approaching has always been more of a niche activity than bar approaching. I think this has fallen off somewhat, but most of the decline in approaching is related to the decline in bar approaching.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

.On that note, Ive been thinking of doing this anyway, but I am constantly inspired by @Plinco 's cold approach journal...and I'm going to do some infield, hidden cam, cold approaching...and have a little fun with it, by having you guys guess which ones rejected me and which ones reciprocated.

I've been thinking of doing this for a while, and it's about to go down.

Just need to research for the right camera and the proper cam placement.

Show you turkeys how to do this.

WALMART TITTIES!!! ( . )( . )

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

WALMART TITTIES!!! ( . )( . )

Indeed, mostly..but not limited to.