Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Metrosexuality

JonJack

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And why should you be disgusted with feminine men when they have absolutely nothing to do with you? It's not like you have any responsibility over them whatsoever or that you want something from them. Despising overly masculine women, now that I understand.

And who are you to determine what's better for guys to spend their money on?

And for the record, I'm not a metrosexual. In fact, I don't even do any regular shopping for new clothes. What I'm trying to point out here is for a more pragmatic view of things. It's not about making everyone the same. It's not about making men to be more manly or making women to be more feminine. It's about accepting and understanding the differences. The world would be shyt hell dull if everyone were to behave in some consistent manner.
 

MetalFortress

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Why? Because I believe men should be MASCULINE, and women should be FEMININE, that's why.

Who am I to determine what's better for guys to spend money on? Well, for starters, someone who has gotten by and will continue to get by without spending 400 dollars a month on my hair and skin and clothing. I could be paying off a gently used Escalade, Corvette or BMW for that price, or putting it towards a sizeable chunk of a mortgage loan.

Don't give me your pragmatism speech either. Two masculine men can be almost completely opposite of each other in every other category, and the same is true with two feminine women. Not only would the world NOT be more dull, but you're a hypocrite for giving me that speech AFTER saying that you understand (and seemingly agree with) despising overly masculine women.
 

manuva

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I've been reading this forum for about a month I guess. I've read a lot of name calling about so-called metrosexuals, and how they apparently are the antithesis of being a real man. It has also been mentioned more than once that being a so-called metrosexual is more or less the same as being gay.

People seem to have been throwing these terms around quite loosely, and name-calling without pausing for thought as to the proper definition or quantifiable qualities that allow us to sub-categorise the male species.

I suppose, specifically, I want to throw this out to the people, such as SuperGigalo and other 'men' (as opposed to 'gay metrosexuals') and ask them what they have done to earn the title 'man'.

Personally, I like to dress well. In the shower, I exfoliate my skin. After showering, my skin often dries out, and I apply a moisturiser to my face.

I brush my teeth, I floss, and use a mouthwash (Listerine).

I can iron and starch my clothes to perfection, and my dress shoes are always sparkling shiny.

I can cook quite well. I hold doors open for women, I offer women and elderly citizens my seat on a busy train. When driving a woman somewhere, I will open her door before I walk to the other side of the car and open my own.


In your book, SuperGigolo, does this make me metrosexual?


I'd like to guess that it does.



I am, then, a 'metrosexual', while you, I assume from your metrosexual-bashing posts, are a 'man'.

I'm interested to hear what is it that you've done to qualify as a man.

You're 20 years old according to your profile. You look young, and you look innocent. In many of your posts you sound naive. Yet, you tell us you're a man.


Let me tell you about myself. I'm an Australian in my mid-twenties.

I grew up in the country, knowing the secret of hard work. Often, during summer, me and my mates would be hay-bailing from dawn to dusk.

I lived in a third-world country for two years in my early teens, where I studied martial arts.

In my late teenage years I was a state boxing champion, victor of many bouts. I also played football at a very high level, and a lot of rugby as well. These sports netted me many injuries; I have broken and dislocated countless bones and joints.

I have been a paratrooper, and, later, a member of Australia's Special Forces where I practised many other highly dangerous, adrenaline charged exercises, the likes of which I can safely assume you have not experienced nor will you ever.

I have been shot at.

I've participated in endurance activities designed to induce a state of collapse from exhaustion.

I have been deliberately exposed to some of the more gruesome, bloody and disgusting sides of life and death, in order that I become immune to it.

I was frequently placed in situations designed to terrify the animal instinct of survival contained within all of us, so that I better learned to overcome it.

Some of my mates have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from the training we did. Not the operations we went on, but the training alone. Other friends are in Iraq doing private security for $1500 US a day.

Many of the things I have listed above would, I can safely say, be considered 'manly' by most people. As my old platoon sergeant used to say, there are two types of people in this world; victims and killers. I can safely consider myself the latter.

I now work as a personal trainer. An expensive one. It's not as exciting as jumping out of planes and storming buildings, but its safer and a far more long term career. I don't get paid danger money, but it gives me a much greater chance of surviving long enough to do what I consider to be the most 'manly' thing of all; raise and provide for a family.

I am not married, nor do I have kids, but I hope some day I will. The ultimate duty of a 'man' is that they provide for these.

Back to my earlier question, what is it about these non-metrosexuals that makes them so manly?

I've had 2 or 3 facials in my time - does that, despite my past, make me un-manly?

On the other hand, you've probably led a fairly protected life - your parents probably pay/paid your tuition fees. You've probably never been in any real danger beyond the odd punch-up here and there. Have you ever confronted and beaten an innate fear? Have you ever fought to defend a friend, loved one or country? You don't seem to have married and provided for a family. I doubt you've even gone hungry a day in your life.

Yet, despite lacking these oft-considered 'manly' traits, you emphatically consider yourself a man because you don't use fake tanning or own a pink shirt.

I am not attracted to other men. I have never been curious, or had a 'fling' or any kind of romantic or sexual contact with a man. But I've had a facial. Therefor, for some obscure reason, I can be considered a metro, and thus homosexual.

In times bygone, the measure of a man was his courage in battle, his skill as a hunter, his ability to keep others safe and to provide food and shelter for his partner and children that they may in turn grow up to become providers.

Certainly, circumstances have changed since those times, yet if you ask most people what makes a man, much of what they list will reflect these bygone values, as does my list.

You, however, have probably accomplished very little, if any, of these values. However, you haven't dyed your hair blonde or had a facial, and because of this you seem to think you've undertaken a rite of passage and thus can now consider yourself a man.

My question to you is, how?

What have you done to demonstrate that you are no longer a victim, but have become a hardened (hypothetical) killer?
 

JonJack

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I believe I am barking up the wrong tree here. I can see that this discussion is not going to lead anywhere.

When I said I understood despising masculine women, I meant I understand why YOU could despise masculine women. I personally don't despise them. To understand and acknowledge something does not equate to practicing or believing it.
 

belividere

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manuva,
how dare you? A man who has stepped up and accomplished despite hard times, a man who has obviously given up his own freedom to defend his country and the honor of his people, a man who doesn't judge or take judgements based on petty prejudices based on what clothes are worn, what cologne is sprayed, what kind of car is driven. How dare you step up and question the manhood of those on an internet forum that question the sexuality of those wearing pink shirts. You've obviously been pulled into the manly sect of the pink shirt wearing take no prisoners sect of the homosexual agenda.:rolleyes:

I'm happy to say that I tend to side with your idea of what it is to be a man more so than 99% of the "manly" posters on this thread so far.
 

kiLLaBee

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I got one firend who is totaly metrosexual, he is peacocking hard core, but he gets laid like rockstar girls pick him up.

On the other hand i got friend who doesnt put much effort into his looks and he too gets laid like rockstar.

Point to this do what ever make you happy man, those who judge you are only sad loosers who dont do anything dont acomplish anything.

There is one old saying

Week people always need somebody to hate.....

Btw did you know in 17 sentury in time of Casanova it was normal for males to wear make up and fake hair, socaity changes and trust me man or alfa you imagine isnt that at all.
 

00Kevin

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noone has ever said you can't get laid if you act like a metro. That is not in question.

Even justin timerlake can get laid, but do you think that he is a man? No I wouldn't consider him one.

It is all about how much respect youhave for yourself.

If you want to act and dress like a girl does then you are only lowing yourself to their level. Don't you know why women dress and act the way they do? It is to attract men by making themselves look like sexual objects.

Why would a man who has any degree of self respect make himself look like a feminine sexual object?

If you are a metro then you believe that a man should subjugate himself for women. A man should never do such a thing because it causes confusion in the natural social order of our species. That is why there are so many men who are opposed to this.

When a woman acts feminine she is subjugating herself for men. Women do this naturally as this is the natural order of humanity. Men however don't subjugate themselves and they don’t have too.
 

00Kevin

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Originally posted by manuva

Personally, I like to dress well. In the shower, I exfoliate my skin. After showering, my skin often dries out, and I apply a moisturiser to my face.

I brush my teeth, I floss, and use a mouthwash (Listerine).

I can iron and starch my clothes to perfection, and my dress shoes are always sparkling shiny.

I can cook quite well. I hold doors open for women, I offer women and elderly citizens my seat on a busy train. When driving a woman somewhere, I will open her door before I walk to the other side of the car and open my own.

What have you done to demonstrate that you are no longer a victim, but have become a hardened (hypothetical) killer?

Please don't be one of those people who think that manly men are dirty caveman killers.

A man is clean cut and takes care of himself in a masculine way.

I have a serious issue with anyone who thinks that a manly man is somone who doesn't know how to be clean and dress well.

There is a difference between a respectful gentleman and a new age metro punk.

Metors have no respect in corporations or in positions of power. Step into a corporate boardroom of a large corporation and take a look around. You won't see any pretty boys making all the rules. They can't be trusted with millions of dollars.


A guy who is a dirty pig is not a man and either is a man acts like a girl.
 

00Kevin

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here are just a few of my ideals.

real men don't gossip.
real men don't get makeovers
real men are men of action and not words
real men don't subjugate themself to women
real men are powerfull
real men value wisdom over intelligence
real men are not dirty
real men are not pigs
Real men are not killers.
Real men are not thieves
Real men are not liars
Real men do not cheet on their women
Real men don't judge their manhood on how many times they get laid.
Real men know how to uphold an oath
Real men give their word and keep it
real men are respectfull gentlemen
real men are have respect for women who are not hores
real men have willpower
real men are not subject to what women say they want
real men enforce the terms of their relationships
real men are not influenced by the media and have a mind of thier own
Real men will die for what they believe in and love.
Real men are not afraid of falling down or being rejected.
Real men have their life an their death in order.
Real men focus on providing and protecting their women and children
Real men realize that they will always be learning what it means to be a man for the rest of their lives.
Real men learn from their mistakes and pick themselves up.
Real men realize that they can always be a better man.
 

whistler

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Originally posted by 00Kevin
here are just a few of my ideals.

real men don't gossip.
real men don't get makeovers
real men are men of action and not words
real men don't subjugate themself to women
real men are powerfull
real men value wisdom over intelligence
real men are not dirty
real men are not pigs
Real men are not killers.
Real men are not thieves
Real men are not liars
Real men do not cheet on their women
Real men don't judge their manhood on how many times they get laid.
Real men know how to uphold an oath
Real men give their word and keep it
real men are respectfull gentlemen
real men are have respect for women who are not hores
real men have willpower
real men are not subject to what women say they want
real men enforce the terms of their relationships
real men are not influenced by the media and have a mind of thier own
Real men will die for what they believe in and love.
Real men are not afraid of falling down or being rejected.
Real men have their life an their death in order.
Real men focus on providing and protecting their women and children
Real men realize that they will always be learning what it means to be a man for the rest of their lives.
Real men learn from their mistakes and pick themselves up.
Real men realize that they can always be a better man.
Sounds good. Sounds like my grandfather.

Actually, I fit all of those criteria; and suspect you and most of the guys on this forum do to.

I'll add one:

Real men don't act like women.
 

00Kevin

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ah yes how could I forget that one.


At least our grandfathers had an ideal to strive for. Such ideals are absent today.

It is also the reason why in the past the word of the president (Republican or democrate) was respected and why it isn't today.
 

TedJustAdmitIt

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Originally posted by 00Kevin
It is also the reason why in the past the word of the president (Republican or democrate) was respected and why it isn't today.
I believe the reason the president(or any other politician for that matter)isn't listened to today is because it's widely accepted that he doesn't know his arse from his elbow.:D
 

medaille

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00Kevin,

At least our grandfathers had an ideal to strive for. Such ideals are absent today.
Here is a post from a blog I read abot Anti-heroes. I tend to think of this trend as a sort of proof of our society becoming less empowered as individuals and more dependent on consumption to fulfill the ideal. It ties in well with the metrosexual trend in that it promotes an ideal that can only be achieved through consumption and not through personal growth. While I don't think that metrosexuality is wrong or feminizing, it is an example of the wide spread pressures facing everyone, men and women alike.

This may or may not be common knowledge to you guys.

-----------------------------------

THE END OF HEROES

Many people lament that "there are no heroes anymore", but that criticism is somewhat unfair. In our age of speed-of-light change and fifteen minutes of fame, we forget that heroes emerge over time, and few people become heroes in their own lifetimes. If we want to look for heroes, we need to look back a generation or two, something that is very unfashionable these days when knowledge of the lessons of history, even by our 'leaders', is pretty abysmal.

The word 'hero' dates back to ancient Greece, and refers to a person of exceptional or exemplary ancestry (noble ancestry was once revered more than it is today), character, talents, discoveries, inventions or achievements. We now expect heroes to have overcome adversity, but that was not originally a requirement. Heroes are, in essence, role models, the protagonists of our lore ("knowledge or learning passed down through generations"). Heroes were essential characters in early oral story-telling culture. We learned from their stories, and aspired to follow their examples.

Many of our early heroes became myths: Their exploits became so widely known and accepted that their veracity ceased to be important. It was the learnings from their story that counted. More recently, our passion for science has reduced our appetite for mythological characters (indeed, we pride ourselves on 'exploding' myths rather than learning from them), though they remain, tellingly, an important part of our teaching of children.

The democratization of language and culture quickly gave rise, in medieval times, to the concept of a 'folk hero', a hero of the people, someone unprivileged by birth or natural talent that the average person could better relate to than the godlike heroes of ancient times. The next step was the creation of anti-heroes, protagonists of stories (still popular today) who lacked the special qualities of heroes but were somehow still sympathetic, usually because they struggled, successfully or not, in ways and with problems that the people could relate to. In fact, when we are not exploding myths, we are often found to be creating anti-stories that debunk stories about heroes and successes that we deeply suspect because we see them as propaganda (and stories are excellent vehicles for propaganda).

So our modern stories tend to be anti-stories about anti-heroes, deeply cynical, yet comforting and still inspiring -- most people can relate better to a rough-edged, trash-talking Erin Brockovich than to a saintly Mother Theresa. These are stories for times of modest expectations and pessimism. We no longer have an appetite for 'true' heroes in the classical mold -- the astronauts who landed on the moon, the team that eradicated smallpox, the group that mapped the human genome -- because we no longer believe true heroism is possible for the average, helpless, cog-in-the-machine human. If we cannot aspire to heroism ourselves, what is the point of recognizing it in others? What lesson can there possibly be in this except that we are beyond hope and redemption?

Our modern, hollow substitute for the hero is the 'star': someone who has become extraordinarily rich, famous or powerful. So deep is our cynicism that what we enjoy most is seeing these stars -- who we generally believe achieved what they did not through heroism but through sheer dumb luck, connections, inherited wealth or power, or manipulation and exploitation of the weaknesses of the 'star' systems -- suffer tragedy and misfortune. It is our way of reassuring ourselves that the system is not rigged against us, that there is still hope for each of us, unprivileged, to become, if not heroes, then at least anti-heroes. These great falls -- from the pinnacles of sport adulation, artistic celebrity or business success extraordinaire -- also give us an excuse not to aspire to be more than we are, or solace when we try and fail.

We may get a perverse joy from seeing giants fall, but to see an anti-hero fail is deeply troubling. "This is a guy who struggled just like me, and managed by sheer perseverance or street smarts or ingenuity to beat The Man every once in awhile, and now look at him." This, I think, is why the finale of Roseanne, the ultimate anti-hero, raised such howls of protest. How dare they allow this woman who courageously and cleverly gave the world the finger each week to end up pathetic and tragic, all her triumphs suddenly exposed as self-delusions?

The outrage over anti-hero stories ending in defeat is based in the religious myth of salvation. If you're bad, inept, weak, or just plain mediocre but you struggle on, you're supposed to be rewarded, saved, redeemed, forgiven. If you made it to anti-hero and then you just die in an accident, give up, go off the wagon for good, take your own life, what hope is there for the rest of us?

We don't look for heroes any more because we cannot hope to follow their example. It's learned helplessness again. We want anti-heroes we can laugh at, and make us feel by comparison competent, superior. And then we want them to struggle and succeed, kind of. Because if they can make it, then imagine what we could do. No, nothing that heroic, but better than him.

http://blogs.salon.com/0002007/2005/05/13.html
 
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