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Men are your competition, not your friends.

LucianoM

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Im talking about guys you meet in the party and pick up scene. They are nothing more than competitors, dont ever think they're your friends. Sure you might meet a cool wing here and there, and he may genuinely want to see you succeed but once you start doing better than him you'll see him flip on you. Happens every time. You need to learn how to ride solo and pull girls on your own. You need to learn how to entertain multiple girls on your own. A lion doesnt rule his pride with his "friends", its just him and his girls. You need to be the same way. I deleted every mf'r from my phone because guys are faker than females and theyre completely useless to me. Just focus on you and your girls and thats it!
 

Zimbabwe

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Most guys in the pick up scene will not hesitate to throw you under the bus for some poosey, crabs in a bucket mentality. That being said I did meet One German guy who basically taught me everything he knew about pickup before he left Australia. I still use what i learnt from him about game even now.

This might get some hate here but I honestly agree with you that hanging out with Plates/Girlfriends is better than male friends.
 

buddhafukko

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Furthermore, friends are your competition. The closest of friends are destoyed by women as a matter of course. The best approach is to compartmentalize your relationships. Basically business.
 

Francis

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Couldn't agree with this more and one of the harshest lessons I had to learn. It's also one of the first things I brought up on here.

Even among social circles and especially cliques there's a lot of backstabbing and one-upping. People pretending to be each other's friends when they're secretly competing and sabotaging each other. Any time there's a hierarchy everyone's trying to be king of the mountain. You could minding your own business, excelling at work, and a bunch of no-skilled clowns will try to tear you down because it makes them feel bad to see others doing better than them. Even if you don't give a **** or view things the same way.

I heard about how females are gossipy, immature, two-faced, etc, but in my experience grown men do the same ****! Some people get insanely jealous and go around spreading lies and trying to destroy reputations to even the playing field. Or attacking other people relentlessly. The more people who are "beneath" you, the easier it is for them to find allies to go against you.
 

Barrister

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Im talking about guys you meet in the party and pick up scene. They are nothing more than competitors, dont ever think they're your friends. Sure you might meet a cool wing here and there, and he may genuinely want to see you succeed but once you start doing better than him you'll see him flip on you. Happens every time. You need to learn how to ride solo and pull girls on your own. You need to learn how to entertain multiple girls on your own. A lion doesnt rule his pride with his "friends", its just him and his girls. You need to be the same way. I deleted every mf'r from my phone because guys are faker than females and theyre completely useless to me. Just focus on you and your girls and thats it!
Not just guys you meet. I have a buddy that whenever we all go out to meet women he constantly tries to interject into conversations when he sees you are building rapport to essentially kokblock the other guy. He usually makes some super awkward comment about us while we are in conversation with a new woman (he has brought up my daughter to new women before - trying to get them to be turned off by the fact I have a kid). The guy is a good friend in many ways -- but I never go meet women with him anymore and haven't in a long time. I could say it hasn't affected our relationship but it has. I think it is a violation of trust in certain ways.

I will say I think MOST guys generally will not interfere while you are approaching women. But they are definitely out there.
 

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Most guys in the pick up scene will not hesitate to throw you under the bus for some poosey, crabs in a bucket mentality. That being said I did meet One German guy who basically taught me everything he knew about pickup before he left Australia. I still use what i learnt from him about game even now.

This might get some hate here but I honestly agree with you that hanging out with Plates/Girlfriends is better than male friends.
Exact same here. Maybe it was the same German guy?


 

Francis

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Not just guys you meet. I have a buddy that whenever we all go out to meet women he constantly tries to interject into conversations when he sees you are building rapport to essentially kokblock the other guy. He usually makes some super awkward comment about us while we are in conversation with a new woman (he has brought up my daughter to new women before - trying to get them to be turned off by the fact I have a kid). The guy is a good friend in many ways -- but I never go meet women with him anymore and haven't in a long time. I could say it hasn't affected our relationship but it has. I think it is a violation of trust in certain ways.

I will say I think MOST guys generally will not interfere while you are approaching women. But they are definitely out there.
Definitely sounds familiar, although not quite as bad. I used to have "friends" that wanted to follow me around everywhere just to sabotage every effort of success, while prancing around as if they had my best interests at heart and were giving good advice (because heaven forbid anyone saw them as the liars & cowards they were). A lot of people involved in a pick-up type lifestyle are super insecure and need to control everything. A lot of narcissists. Other people aren't so good at concealing their **** intentions and will attack you and claim you're not good enough, in an effort to place you beneath them. Took a while to realize what was really going on.

I found that it's generally not a good idea to hang around with unsuccessful people when you are trying to or able to achieve decent success. They might be cool when you're on the same level, then things quickly turn ugly once you gain a lot of traction and they don't. A lot of the types of people I just mentioned are pretenders who claim to be God's gift with all the answers but have nothing going for them and tear down everyone else to elevate themselves. Some people are just trash and best avoided altogether. Either way it's not a good idea to share all your goals & achievements with everyone and invite them into all your affairs. Or your weaknesses.
 
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Velasco

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Men WITH narcissistic personality disorder are your competition not your friends. Its hard to separate yourself from them because they are very charming. Therefore you will give them seemingly unlimited chances for their fvckups. The more chances you give them, the more it becomes harder to self detach yourself from them. As much as you tell yourself, "yea I gotta stop hanging out with x"

At the beginning. It's genuine. They really want to just be friends. Later they get to see certain privileges (law of reciprocation) they get from keeping close to you, is when you begin to see the traits associated with NPD individuals (turns into a transactional friendship).

Source: I'm one of them.

Edit: Also out of boredom, sometimes they'll sabatoge the relationship on purpose.
 
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Francis

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Men WITH narcissistic personality disorder are your competition not your friends. Its hard to separate yourself from them because they are very charming. Therefore you will give them seemingly unlimited chances for their fvckups. The more chances you give them, the more it becomes harder to self detach yourself from them. As much as you tell yourself, "yea I gotta stop hanging out with x"

At the beginning. It's genuine. They really want to just be friends. Later they get to see certain privileges (law of reciprocation) they get from keeping close to you, is when you begin to see the traits associated with NPD individuals (turns into a transactional friendship).

Source: I'm one of them.

Edit: Also out of boredom, sometimes they'll sabatoge the relationship on purpose.
So you are aware and able to self-reflect? But yeah, I know for a fact that the worst ones were NPD. They got their rocks off doing that **** and there was a pattern. Used to be a huge magnet for them, until I realized what was going on and told them all to F off. Exposed them all over social media too and pointed out THEIR flaws, they completely disappeared after that.
 
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oc16

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I agree with this.

There are some male friends that are cool and fun to hang out with

However, as soon as an attractive woman comes on the scene (let's say at a bar) their demeanor changes. They become competitive and envious if the woman is giving you more attention than them. They will even throw some subtle insults at you or make a joke at your expense if you are both talking to the same woman.

These are awkward situations and that's why prefer to flirt with women when I am by myself.
 

characternote

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I think in general it's true, but there are exceptions. Get good at deciding who you want to be friends with, or at least go out with.

I slowly edged a number of friends out of my life back when I was cold approaching a tonne. Most of my friends, who are otherwise chill guys, would almost actively ruin sets for me and try to pickup my scraps etc. Throw some barbed comments my way in the hopes the girl would be impressed by him trying to show me up etc lol (never ever worked in their favour, but did make a number of sets way harder!)

But my main wingman (who ironally could steal the girl from any guy here due to completely lucking out on the genetic lottery) was the opposite. He'd help me get laid a tonne. He'd sacrafice his own lays at times. He just didn't care about getting laid. On the few occasions he almost stole girls from me, it was no fault of his own. Girls I was in set with would literally throw themselves at him on occasion and he done nothing at all to encrouage them lol. I wrote an FR about one of the funniest times this happened where he ended up trying to baragain with the girl, basically sayign 'OK, i'll bang you, but you've got to bang my friend too'

I also found an amazing American Wingman in Budapest who was a freaking living legend! Some marine dude. He was the best wingman i've ever had. Talked me up, helped me with pulling, fixed obstacles for me etc.
 

Clee Torres

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Couldn't agree with this more and one of the harshest lessons I had to learn. It's also one of the first things I brought up on here.

Even among social circles and especially cliques there's a lot of backstabbing and one-upping. People pretending to be each other's friends when they're secretly competing and sabotaging each other. Any time there's a hierarchy everyone's trying to be king of the mountain. You could minding your own business, excelling at work, and a bunch of no-skilled clowns will try to tear you down because it makes them feel bad to see others doing better than them. Even if you don't give a **** or view things the same way.

I heard about how females are gossipy, immature, two-faced, etc, but in my experience grown men do the same ****! Some people get insanely jealous and go around spreading lies and trying to destroy reputations to even the playing field. Or attacking other people relentlessly. The more people who are "beneath" you, the easier it is for them to find allies to go against you.
This has happened to me quite a bit, unfortunately. I find that because I'm a relatively attractive dude, guys envy the sh1t out of me. Particularly a group of guys I considered friends. these suckas were never...ever happy for me. Took me a long time to finally realize that.

These guys would assassinate my character behind my back and purposely try to disqualify me in front of women because they didn't like the success I'd have. They'd label me a "player, womanizer." Before I'd even make it to whatever event we were meeting together at, the women they brought along appeared disgusted by me without us even being introduced to each other.

I was never like this. I'm a great wingman & friend and have no problems creating a connection between a potential prospect and another friend. But, unfortunately, these guys were the type to just hog all that **** to themselves. I guess this is a perfect illustration of scarcity mindset vs. abundance.

Fortunately for me, this completely backfired on them one time, when all the **** they spoke about me only made the woman that much more interested. I showed up at the bar we were all meeting at, and she was all over me. She was actually the first older woman I slept with. After sleeping with her, she told me everything they said about me. This hurt because these were guys I considered friends.

I've been doing so much soul-searching and reflection on my life these past few years, and I can no longer tolerate this bull**** from anyone, let alone dudes. I finally recognized I had low self-esteem and needed to fix that, so I began distancing myself from that nonsense. As men, we need to be much more supportive, especially if we graduate to a friendship.

Probably because I'm prior military but I'm all about TEAM. If I eat, I want my team to eat too. If I win, I want my guys to win too.

What sucks the most about the above experiences is that these were supposedly my "boys." I grew up with these guys. I don't "hate" them, but if friendship were a job, they're all fired.

Anyway, safe to say, I left those guys behind to wallow in their own misery. I wholeheartedly agree with the OP - you eventually need to do this **** ON YOUR OWN.
 

Barrister

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i think in general it's true, but there are exceptions. Get good at deciding who you want to be friends with. I slowly edged a number of friends out of my life back when I was cold approaching a tonne. Most of my friends, who are otherwise chill guys, would almost actively ruin sets for me and try to pickup my scraps etc. Throw some barbed comments my way in the hopes the girl would be impressed by him trying to show me up etc lol (never ever worked in their favour, but did make a number of sets way harder!)

But my main wingman (who ironally could steal the girl from any guy here due to completely lucking out on the genetic lottery) was the opposite. He'd help me get laid a tonne. He'd sacrafice his own lays at times. He just didn't care about getting laid. On the few occasions he almost stole girls from me, it was no fault of his own. Girls I was in set with would literally throw themselves at him on occasion and he done nothing at all to encrouage them lol. I wrote an FR about one of the funniest times this happened where he ended up trying to baragain with the girl, basically sayign 'OK, i'll bang you, but you've got to bang my friend too'

I also found an amazing American Wingman in Budapest who was a freaking living legend! Some marine dude. He was the best wingman i've ever had
Sometimes them actively attempting to run an interference blows up in their face. I have actually had a POSITIVE effect on the woman towards me a couple of times my aforementioned buddy attempted interference. Usually there is no effect, however. Just makes him seem really odd and insecure.
 

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Francis

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Disagree. Women choose us, not vice versa. Nothing we “do” can pull her away from her intended target. She may like the guy next to you and there is nothing you can do about it.
That's not the same thing. This is about men turning on you after you become successful, ie the women are choosing you and not them. Either way you shouldn't have to deal with haters and fake friends who tear you down any time you become a "threat" or about to succeed. No time for that and it does get to you after a while.
 

stringpuller

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Im talking about guys you meet in the party and pick up scene. They are nothing more than competitors, dont ever think they're your friends. Sure you might meet a cool wing here and there, and he may genuinely want to see you succeed but once you start doing better than him you'll see him flip on you. Happens every time. You need to learn how to ride solo and pull girls on your own. You need to learn how to entertain multiple girls on your own. A lion doesnt rule his pride with his "friends", its just him and his girls. You need to be the same way. I deleted every mf'r from my phone because guys are faker than females and theyre completely useless to me. Just focus on you and your girls and thats it!
Use them to your benefit the Machavilian way.
Have you read the 48 laws of power. Hide your intentions. Your closest friend holds enough social energy to become your most hated enemy.
 

Velasco

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That's not the same thing
Its kind of related. Because it relates to the kind of person. Not one particular thing they may or not do (turning on you when you become successful). There's this Netflix show called "white lotus" where there's two girls who are best friends with each other. One of the girls takes interest in this guy at the resort they staying at. But hides the fact that there is something going on between them, by sneaking around because she knows her friend has a history of, once she becomes aware her friend is interested in someone, she'll want him for herself. Dunno why but I took 3 fvckbuddies from my old wingmen. And it was exciting knowing I was cucking someone. I think he knew because he often talked about that episode in black mirror where the main character's friend in an episode is banging his wife.

On a less toxic level, my other wing simply being taller and better looking than him would often steal the sexual attention of dtf girls that he was interested in. It was frustrating for me in that I hated this "dibs" thing he did. Where unless he got flat out rejected, I wasnt allowed to go after her otherwise he'd get pissed. Engaging in his own toxic behavior lol.

Edit: I did think about it from a cost benefit perspective once. The privilege I got was a place to bang her at. So I'd let him bang this girl that was all over me (and the only reason they were willing to come back to his place) while I got stuck with the less attractive friend.
 
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stringpuller

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That's not the same thing. This is about men turning on you after you become successful, ie the women are choosing you and not them. Either way you shouldn't have to deal with haters and fake friends who tear you down any time you become a "threat" or about to succeed. No time for that and it does get to you after a while.
Not only is it not the same its not game.
Game is flipping the script on target and you the man is the selector. This bs of women being the sole agency of selection is bunk.
They may have the green light to her vag but the there are no golden pussiezz.
A guy who has standards and boundries has choice.
Guys who think it is always female selection show their cards too soon in the game. No chase. No mystery.
To say a guy has no choice in it is saying there is no game and is 100% visual. Desd endsville for that guy.

I do however see from the perspective of this being easy to fall into. Because without your own standards to go by other then the pretty face and smile it will be easy for this guy to think he has no choice.
This same guy will fall for the idea of leagues.
 
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oc16

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That's not the same thing. This is about men turning on you after you become successful, ie the women are choosing you and not them. Either way you shouldn't have to deal with haters and fake friends who tear you down any time you become a "threat" or about to succeed. No time for that and it does get to you after a while.
Well Said brother.

The two guys that I've had issues with aren't even single. One has a long term girlfriend that he cheats on all the time and the other is married.
 
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