Marriage and being faithful...

[BeExcellent]

So that club loss killed him. You gave him 10 yrs to figure his next move.

We were married 15 years. The fiasco with his business partner occurred in the second year. That year I also gave birth to my son. He was a full time father for 10 years and I was loyal and patient. The last several years of the marriage I told him straight up that I would eventually divorce him in time over his lack of drive or ambition. Despite our children & friendship & great sex life. Late in the marriage I helped him start his own business, and I put thousands of dollars into it as well as time & effort. I deferred to him in that endeavor, as it was his. But I knew the day it opened it would fail. He never bothered to establish the habits and discipline required to run a business and he ran in just as he had run our household, very poorly. It was a cool venue, and could have made it but he mismanaged it terribly. I never recovered what I put into it financially and that’s Ok.

We got divorced 6 years ago. My son works at his old venue, which has become successful for someone else.

My ex husband now works a regular job in a structured environment and makes very little. He is satisfied just getting by and has let himself go physically since we split. Never goes to the dentist, won’t get a hernia repaired, stuff like that.

Meanwhile Ive kept myself up and my trajectory has been very different.

 

[Lookatu]

Sounds like a power struggle, transactional, her wanting the max for the min, etc. Time to eject...
I think you've put up with it long enough. It's clear you're not happy and she doesn't give 2 $hits on how you feel.

 

[Lookatu]

Look, if your wife wants to work, that's your business, but if you become dependent upon her income, you're about to become the victim of a hostile takeover, whether you want to admit it or not. It's coming...sooner or later...brace yourselves.

I agree. Like you, I may be old fashioned but I think the guy should bring in some $ to the table and I'm against stay at home dads in most cases too. When you decide to marry and start a family, it should be something that you decide with the intent of you taking care of everyone. Maybe not fully financially but contributing and doing your best to provide, protect, nurture, advise, comfort to both your significant other and your kids. On the opposite end, I know guys that only bring home the bacon but absolutely are detached in interacting with their kids/SO from an emotional/interactive support side. It's all about balance.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

This is the essence of what most men seem to have forgotten about marriage, these days: for a man, marriage should be thought of as the adoption of his first child, a full-grown woman, for whom he has become permanently responsible, and who damn well better turn out to be quality of wife to him and mother to his children that motivated his decision to "adopt" her. Too many men, having been raised by unwed mothers, grow up with mommy issues, and confuse the husband(which literally means "manager")-wIfe(which just means "woman") relationship with the mother-son relationship, when it's really much closer to the father-daughter relationship.

The point is that men who marry to have someone to take care of them, instead of the opposite, are headed off the rails before they even get moving down the tracks. "But, ShePays," they say, "you say to let women pick up the check, and to not spend my money on women....so, why should I take care of a woman, and why shouldn't I let her take care of me?" It's pretty basic, really: you shouldn't spend your money on a woman you aren't married to, a woman who isn't mother of your children, a woman you're trying to extract sex from; most guys, as we see here, time after time, get bitter about blowing all their kids' future inheritance on bimbos. So, don't do it. If she wants to have sex with you, she'll be just as happy with dinner and a movie at your place, as some fancy dinner at a fancy restaurant, or expensive vacation. And, if she wants to do any of those other things, let her pay for them...unless you're just so loaded that it's all just a drop in the ocean to you. Otherwise, keep it in your pants(your wallet), until you've decided to make kids with this woman(AFTER the wedding).

Yeah, yeah, I'm so oldschool, "blue pill," whatever, shut the fuuck up. I don't give a shiit what a bunch of whiny punks think about anything, anyway.

Look, if your wife wants to work, that's your business, but if you become dependent upon her income, you're about to become the victim of a hostile takeover, whether you want to admit it or not. It's coming...sooner or later...brace yourselves.

excellent, so familiar the way you talk, enjoy and appreciate your posts here Shepays

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Sounds like a power struggle, transactional, her wanting the max for the min, etc. Time to eject...
I think you've put up with it long enough. It's clear you're not happy and she doesn't give 2 $hits on how you feel.

Pretty much this. Power struggles suck.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

I’m pretty sure every man inherently knows that it‘s his responsibility to take care of his wife financially....

Do some men actually say otherwise? The onus of being a provider is on the man lol it’s not even a discussion. Even feminism says this because of the double standards they place on society lmfao

 

[Lynx nkaf]

I’m pretty sure every man inherently knows that it‘s his responsibility to take care of his wife financially....

Do some men actually say otherwise? The onus of being a provider is on the man lol it’s not even a discussion. Even feminism says this because of the double standards they place on society lmfao

Yes, Double, some men do say this.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I’m pretty sure every man inherently knows that it‘s his responsibility to take care of his wife financially....

Do some men actually say otherwise? The onus of being a provider is on the man lol it’s not even a discussion. Even feminism says this because of the double standards they place on society lmfao

In an age where in many cultures the avg woman actually makes more it's a unrealistic expectation for the man to foot all of the bills.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

In an age where in many cultures the avg woman actually makes more it's a unrealistic expectation for the man to foot all of the bills.

this would be a good thread on its own. Looks like it needs discussion.
Debate
Pro: man as sole provider?
or
Against: man as sole provider?

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Yes, Double, some men do say this.

Mostly incels and weak, angry, and/or emasculate men.

In an age where in many cultures the avg woman actually makes more it's a unrealistic expectation for the man to foot all of the bills.

Well yeah, especially nowadays. But the man should still take on more of the financial responsibilities than her.

Also, this is just for a good loving wife. By no means am I saying that the women of today deserve to be cared for like this, much less married as a whole lmao most don’t even deserve love & intimacy in general and they know it haha why else so many have low self-esteem and feel so alone? lol

Obviously those days are long gone. With your average woman in your typical gendered interactions, in most cases you take care of yourself and only yourself. But in regards to what your role as a man should be just in life, this is your responsibility. Again, no woman deserves this nowadays, but it’s important for men to know this anyway simply because we need to get more in touch with our masculine selves.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

thanks.
women don't even want the average woman as an alternative.
I liked how you spun out several ideas and instigators here.

 

[2Rocky]

What I learned from the book was the kind of power dynamic that was at play and that I could only ever be responsible for my part of the marriage. I banged my head against the wall for years trying to encourage, advise, cajole, nag, complain, cheerlead, pay for counseling, encourage some more, task master, etc. He wouldn’t budge & never budged. So I had to chose whether or not I wanted to stick with a partner who showed no interest in a partnership or in improving himself and growing. The book helped me take ownership of my stuff and release responsibility for his stuff.

Sounds familiar...

 

[2Rocky]

The book is a meaty read. It is about marriages that reach a crisis, as all marriages do. It is about how and why those relationships reach a crisis point and about the normalcy of it and how our sexuality is affected by things we might think are unrelated.

I cannot say whether The Way of the Superior Man deals with the entanglements that occur in marriage...but the OP seems to be in such a crucible in his. Passionate Marriage deals head on with exactly these matters. I keep a copy on my bedside table and I found it useful as my own marriage was unraveling. I believe the OP might greatly benefit from the insights in the book based on what he has shared. It certainly won’t hurt and might help.

Now. If his spouse refuses to make the journey with him to resolve this very real issue? That is the decision point where he must decide to stay status quo, cheat with its inherent risks, or divorce. None of those three choices are as optimal as resolving the issue within the marriage...

Would you call this book appropriate for a couple to both read before the crisis point as a preventative measure? Or is it kind of a secret weapon to guide the relationship in a positive direction?

 

[BeExcellent]

Would you call this book appropriate for a couple to both read before the crisis point as a preventative measure? Or is it kind of a secret weapon to guide the relationship in a positive direction?

Yes.

It gets into sexuality, and how sexuality reflects much more than what turns us on as lovers. Real intimacy is daunting. Often the hang ups people have about themselves become evident in bed. Sexual intimacy is about much more than sex itself. It can be uncomfortable for people to really expose themselves to a lover. The book goes into the power dynamics of sex as well, the difference between doing, being done, fvcking, and lovemaking for example, and how different ways of interacting during sexual union reveals things about the individuals involved.

My recent ex, as an example, had a habit when we first were getting sexual, of zoning out, and seeking validation from his partner’s climax. He would become almost mechanical in sex, holding himself back by refusing to allow himself to connect and feel...and at the same time desperate for the validation of his partner vis a vis her orgasm.

This is disjointed and robs connection between lovers. Ergo if a woman could use him as a live dil-do then all was well. If a woman actually required him to be tuned into his partner and connected? This he struggled with. I require connection. He found this difficult and emotionally risky. He was good at live masturbation using a partner (which is just the sex act without intimacy) and actual intimacy terrified him.

Getting laid? Easy. Getting emotionally close? Rarely gonna happen.

We got there (connection & intimacy) over time...but it revealed places in each of us that required growth and maturation.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

Yes.

It gets into sexuality, and how sexuality reflects much more than what turns us on as lovers. Real intimacy is daunting. Often the hang ups people have about themselves become evident in bed. Sexual intimacy is about much more than sex itself. It can be uncomfortable for people to really expose themselves to a lover. The book goes into the power dynamics of sex as well, the difference between doing, being done, fvcking, and lovemaking for example, and how different ways of interacting during sexual union reveals things about the individuals involved.

My recent ex, as an example, had a habit when we first were getting sexual, of zoning out, and seeking validation from his partner’s climax. He would become almost mechanical in sex, holding himself back by refusing to allow himself to connect and feel...and at the same time desperate for the validation of his partner vis a vis her orgasm.

This is disjointed and robs connection between lovers. Ergo if a woman could use him as a live dil-do then all was well. If a woman actually required him to be tuned into his partner and connected? This he struggled with. I require connection. He found this difficult and emotionally risky. He was good at live masturbation using a partner (which is just the sex act without intimacy) and actual intimacy terrified him.

Getting laid? Easy. Getting emotionally close? Rarely gonna happen.

We got there (connection & intimacy) over time...but it revealed places in each of us that required growth and maturation.

did it take longer than a year? to reach that state?

 

[BeExcellent]

did it take longer than a year? to reach that state?

Yes. And even then at times he would pull back emotionally. Sex for the sake of sex is great sometimes...he had trouble moving between modalities if you will.

I’ve never had a lover it was tougher to connect with...but once we were connected the sex improved over time...got deeper, more meaningful etc. And that’s not to be confused with chemistry. The chemistry has always been electric between us. Emotional connection is much deeper than chemistry.

Since we have split he has gone back to his playboy habits (unsurprising) where he can get his sexual needs met without emotional investment. But this makes him feel worse about himself once he’s had his “fix”.

Right now his father is dying and his father is an ass hole to him even as he is trying to be a good son & help with things daily. So his emotions are all over the place while he maintains a stiff upper lip. Intimacy in a relationship merely adds more stress right now because he struggles to handle intimacy under good life conditions. He’s unlikely to ever be a good partner unless/until he resolves issues that he carries with him wherever he goes. No one other than he can grow through that. And his relationships are going to suffer forever as a result.

Not my battle. Not my problem, much as I love him. We are individuals, and we can only ever manage ourselves.

 

[scarface701]

Answers cure confusion.

So, your wife hasn't let herself go, and is sexy, but you're not attracted to her, because she doesn't dress sexy, and won't go on dates with you? And, here, I thought part of the problem was all the time you spent together... Okay, why do you need your wife to dress sexy? Is it just in bed? Does she come to bed in granny panties, a mudd mask, and curlers? You want her to wear miniskirts, fishnet stockings, and spiked heels...in public, or sexy lingerie in private?

When you say "she refuses to dress sexy," do you mean she dresses like a librarian, a prudish banker, a gym teacher, or a homeless person? What going on? If she hasn't let herself go, and she's still sexy, has she changed the way she dresses, and acts in bed, or have YOUR tastes changed?

As far as going on dates, you mean she won't get gussied up to go out, or she won't even go out to dinner with you, at all? Babysitter issues? What's going on?

Yes... it’s hard to sum marital problems up in a post... but I’ll try. It’s a combination of things. Grumpy attitude. Extremely strict with certain rules... and sexually she doesn’t try to be attractive. In other words... she could care less if I find her attractive. That’s what’s missing.

Since I last posted we got into an argument and I called her out on all this. Basically she was asking me to do a bunch of little things for her... which I do all the time, but I never get anything in return but a door slammed in my face.

So the other night I called her out on it. It lead to an argument and I was housesitting at the time so I left and stayed there. She continued to text me saying she knows she’s been distant and grumpy.

After talking for a while I finally said...”if you want me to sum up the problem it’s that I know exactly what you like... whether it’s food, sex or whatever. I can make you you’re favorite food for dinner and I know exactly what you like in bed and can make you orgasm in minutes. However, although you may know what food I like, you have know idea what I like in bed bc you’ve never cared to get to know”. I think that struck home.


I will say...since I said that to her she has changed a bit. She recognizes it and She is trying. How long it will last is TBD.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Yes... it’s hard to sum marital problems up in a post... but I’ll try. It’s a combination of things. Grumpy attitude. Extremely strict with certain rules... and sexually she doesn’t try to be attractive. In other words... she could care less if I find her attractive. That’s what’s missing.

Since I last posted we got into an argument and I called her out on all this. Basically she was asking me to do a bunch of little things for her... which I do all the time, but I never get anything in return but a door slammed in my face.

How great...

So the other night I called her out on it. It lead to an argument and I was housesitting at the time so I left and stayed there. She continued to text me saying she knows she’s been distant and grumpy.

After talking for a while I finally said...”if you want me to sum up the problem it’s that I know exactly what you like... whether it’s food, sex or whatever. I can make you you’re favorite food for dinner and I know exactly what you like in bed and can make you orgasm in minutes. However, although you may know what food I like, you have know idea what I like in bed bc you’ve never cared to get to know”. I think that struck home.


I will say...since I said that to her she has changed a bit. She recognizes it and She is trying. How long it will last is TBD.

Who knows. What's really fvcked up, is you spent all these years with her doing the bedroom HER way and she has NO IDEA what you really like in the bed.... And you know what, you are not the only man who can say that! There was a grouping of females, who had been preached to make it all about them, that if they are going out of their way pleasing us, that it's man being "controlling" or her "being weak",. So I had heard about other men who yes, sex does happen, but it's wife always on top pounding away and doing how SHE likes and he never gets any input or to make a change.

 

[BeExcellent]

Good. Perhaps you’re starting to break through. I commend you for having the guts to be straight up and to stand your ground as a man. Proud of you. I know you are proud of yourself.

Cheers

 

[ubercat]

I don't get the problem. If the relationship is good but you just want a different slice of pie once in a while without any emotions isn't that what business trips and hookers are for?