Male Friends

[rjc149]

Without the power of makeup, they’d be the ones in simp mode.

Believe it or not, 75%+ of women are.

 

[rjc149]

where exactly is he wrong?

He's not wrong, technically. He's just -- over the top with this stuff. I'm beginning to find it humorous.

 

[AlphaDraconis]

A high value man can be friends with anyone he wants to because he doesn't give a fukk. You're assuming a male friend does man-servant things like this, but that's coming from a low-value perspective - maybe based on your experience or from some of of the binary posts around here.

@CoandaEffect is right IMO, it's about insecurity and inner game. Doesn't mean there is never sexual tension, or that they won't wind up fukking some day. But women can bring a lot of value to a man's life besides just sex - I know most of Sosuave doesn't believe that but that's been my experience.

As I mentioned in a previous post, you should consider yourself king of your own world, regardless of what anyone else thinks, or regardless of your genetics. By that, I mean respect and take care of yourself and your own happiness no matter what.

And let’s face it, women do have their categories they place men in. It’s either: the simp category aka friendzone where she places guys she considers genetically unworthy to fvck - (her butlers, chauffeurs, tampons, Mr Fix it’s, etc). Then there’s fvck boy category (good looking guys with no financial assets); then the guy they’d marry - the genetically superior man with money and status.

 

[rjc149]

you should consider yourself king of your own world, regardless of what anyone else thinks, or regardless of your genetics. By that, I mean respect and take care of yourself and your own happiness no matter what.

My man -- are you taking your own advice?

 

[AlphaDraconis]

My man -- are you taking your own advice?

Yes, I told you before that I am happy in my own world, and would only sacrifice that single life happiness for a woman who was really worth it. By that I mean a woman who doesn’t come along and try to destroy my happiness and peace of mind. If she doesn’t come along in this lifetime? Not the biggest deal, but it would have been nice to have started a family with the right woman. Again, no major loss. Whatever will be, will be.

 

[Lordeterra]

Time to do the sosuave special..................

and invite "Mei Ling" (the size 4 asian) into the equation.....

She will get rid of Back up boy, real quick.

Lol

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Late getting into this thread and have not read the 7 pages of replies but I will chime in based on your original post.

Back when I was blue-pilled and married, my wife left me for one of her male buddies who she then entered a multi-year LTR with. I never thought he was a threat because he was a 4 and she was an 8 or a 9. They barely ever hung out and she almost never talked about him. You just never know with women.

The girl I just dated for a year and recently broke up with had a lot of beta male orbiters. I didn't feel threatened by them because none of them were anywhere close to her in looks, but that may have been naïve on my part given what happened with my ex wife. I'll never know for sure if anything happened with her and any of those guys but I have reason to believe something did.

At the same time, you can't control women either. If a woman wants to cheat, she will cheat. However, I do think that drawing clear boundaries is important because it accomplishes several things. First and foremost is that it forces her to ACT and make a decision on what is more important, seeing her male friends 1:1 or being in a committed relationship with you. In my book, no person in a committed relationship should be spending time 1:1 with someone of the opposite sex. That is a boundary for me and it applies to me equally as it applies to a girl I'm in a relationship with. There are some women who won't accept that boundary, and will try to label me as insecure or controlling for it. That's ok. Those women can go date someone else instead of me. Second is that it reduces the chance that an emotional affair happens, which can then lead to a physical affair, and it reduces the chances of someone meddling in your relationship. If a woman WANTS to cheat, she will, but if your boundaries remove her from the types of situations that evolve into an affair or cheating, it does reduce the risk. And it's also very important that you are standing up for yourself - by setting these boundaries. Good women will respect your doing this.

If you aren't exclusive with a girl, then I wouldn't bring up male friends. I just take note at the stage in the dating process as to if she has any male friends and if so, how many, and how close they are and compare and contrast the same for her female friends. The more male friends she has and the fewer female friends she has, the bigger the red flag. I have learned not to enter exclusive relationships with women like that. But if she asks to be exclusive, and you really want to be, then that would be the time to bring up the guy friends and how you couldn't be in an exclusive relationship with a girl who spends time 1:1 with other men - it's just not what you are looking for.

Because you said you were concerned with how bringing up her guy friend(s) would go, and that she would react negatively to it, I will say that I have learned it is VERY important to form and communicate your own boundaries without thought as to whether a girl is going to like them or not. You can't worry whether or not she will like your boundary. You simply state your boundary and if she doesn't like it, you walk away and never look back.

 

[indiff]

Because you said you were concerned with how bringing up her guy friend(s) would go, and that she would react negatively to it, I will say that I have learned it is VERY important to form and communicate your own boundaries without thought as to whether a girl is going to like them or not. You can't worry whether or not she will like your boundary. You simply state your boundary and if she doesn't like it, you walk away and never look back.

One of my mistakes and regrets that I’ve made recently was to go into an exclusive relationship with arms wide open and not bring up anything regarding boundaries.

The only reason why I felt I messed up was by reading stories similar to OP’s. I have the same exact problem where she goes for drinks with her male friends 1:1. She’s perfect in every other aspect(cooks, passionate in bed...) but this is not something I would accept. Comply or goodbye.

Right now, I’m lining up some candidates, creating distance between us and only replying sporadically to her texts. I disagree with some of the advice about communicating with her that you fill uncomfortable with her spending time with male friends. She absolutely knows what she’s doing. They are all adept at manipulation and way better than us men.

The main lesson from all this is always have a talk about boundaries and if she balks at any of your requirements, you will pretty much know what’s in store for you in future.

That being said, I’m interested in gathering thoughts regarding how to have the ‘boundaries’ conversation midway in an exclusive relationship without appearing insecure(if one of the boundaries is her seeing her male friends) and setting myself up to be gaslighted.

 

[B80]

One of my mistakes and regrets that I’ve made recently was to go into an exclusive relationship with arms wide open and not bring up anything regarding boundaries.

The only reason why I felt I messed up was by reading stories similar to OP’s. I have the same exact problem where she goes for drinks with her male friends 1:1. She’s perfect in every other aspect(cooks, passionate in bed...) but this is not something I would accept. Comply or goodbye.

Right now, I’m lining up some candidates, creating distance between us and only replying sporadically to her texts. I disagree with some of the advice about communicating with her that you fill uncomfortable with her spending time with male friends. She absolutely knows what she’s doing. They are all adept at manipulation and way better than us men.

The main lesson from all this is always have a talk about boundaries and if she balks at any of your requirements, you will pretty much know what’s in store for you in future.

That being said, I’m interested in gathering thoughts regarding how to have the ‘boundaries’ conversation midway in an exclusive relationship without appearing insecure(if one of the boundaries is her seeing her male friends) and setting myself up to be gaslighted.

Yeah I'm sure they know what they're doing, but isn't the point of this to bring it to the fore to let them know that you don't like it/find it acceptable/doesn't sit well in an exclusive relationship. If they get funny or try gaslighting, that's a red flag that they should be dumped or relegated to plate status? If they respect you/trueky have high interest they will validate rather than throw it back in your face as being paranoid, insecure, controlling etc?

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I disagree with some of the advice about communicating with her that you fill uncomfortable with her spending time with male friends. She absolutely knows what she’s doing. They are all adept at manipulation and way better than us men.

I still haven't made up my mind on this - I go back and forth between exactly what you said above, and wondering if some women truly don't know any better. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter - the point is that you don't tell her you are uncomfortable by it and simply leave it at that - you tell her you are uncomfortable by it and don't want to be an exclusive relationship with someone who spends time 1:1 with other men, and that you understand if she doesn't want to give that up, but that she can't have you too. It's me, or them.

That being said, I’m interested in gathering thoughts regarding how to have the ‘boundaries’ conversation midway in an exclusive relationship without appearing insecure(if one of the boundaries is her seeing her male friends) and setting myself up to be gaslighted.

Again, don't worry about appearing insecure and don't worry about being gas-lit. You are nearly guaranteed to have her respond to your boundary setting (especially a late initiative of a boundary setting) with gas-lighting and her labeling you as insecure and unreasonable. But first and foremost, if YOU don't like her seeing other guys 1:1, then it doesn't matter what anyone else on the planet feels about that boundary - it is your boundary and if it is important enough to you that you'd end a relationship over it (and all boundaries should result in breaking up if she refused them or breaks them) , there is no such thing as an invalid boundary. Are there some people who would feel that boundary is unacceptable? Sure. All that means is that you aren't compatible with those people. It doesn't mean your boundary is unacceptable. This is probably the single most important thing I have learned in the last four years. Because women LOVE testing boundaries and they love trying to tell you that your boundaries are unreasonable, controlling, unfair, insecure, whatever. So the single most important thing I have learned is to think carefully about your boundaries ahead of time, and then be 10000000% convinced and unwavering in them - truly be willing to walk away from the relationship to enforce them. It makes things so easy because there can be no argument, no debate. You simply say, listen, I'm not comfortable with you seeing other guys 1:1 while you are in an exclusive relationship with me. I myself will not see other women 1:1 while I am with you, so I am adhering to the same rules. I will listen to your response, and I will answer questions, but I will not defend my boundaries nor are they negotiable. If you don't like it, then you can find a guy who is more compatible with you and who allows you to go out 1:1 with other men, but that's just not me and it never will be.

The fact that you are midway through a relationship technically makes no difference other than she will likely try to add in the whole "Well you never mentioned this before - what's changed - that's not fair...." bit as one of many arguments she makes in trying to push back on your boundary setting. Yes it is certainly better to set the boundary early-on but sometimes things change, you make certain observations, etc. Sometimes you don't even know something is an issue until mid-relationship because you don't uncover it until then, or didn't realize the extent of it.

 

[derby1]

you : were not compatible.
her: What?
You: I wouldnt date a woman who doesnt share the same values as me about the opposite sex. it would be FWB only.
Her: FOFOF!!!& .............**6y6868...insert swear word

you: "See were not compatible"

 

[Jor-El]

This topic has raised some great posts and answers

 

[rjc149]

I disagree with some of the advice about communicating with her that you fill uncomfortable with her spending time with male friends. She absolutely knows what she’s doing. They are all adept at manipulation and way better than us men.

This is also a way to look at her behavior. If she knows what she's doing, then she's seeing if she can get away with it. She's seeing if OP will say something and put his foot down. You can see it as a test of his strength.

He can not respond and pretend it doesn't bother him. She'll keep doing it to test him and see how far she can take it. His resentment builds and builds. Relationship doomed. Spin more plates.

He can start hanging out with other ladies one-on-one, turn this into a tit-for-tat. She'll keep doing it. Relationship doomed. Spin more plates.

Or he can call it out.

She keeps doing it, or thinks he's weak and insecure, and starts the distancing and ejecting process --> relationship over. Next. Spin more plates.

She listens to him, validates his concerns, explains her concerns about losing her friends, tries to reach some understanding or common ground etc. He's expressed a grievance, she's willing to communicate about it like a partner --> relationship has a chance.

The way I see it, if he wants this relationship to have a chance and she's not just a "plate" then he needs to say something, and say it NOW. If this causes him to lose her, send the b!tch back to the streets where she belongs. Good riddance. Find a better partner.

 

[AlphaDraconis]

One of my mistakes and regrets that I’ve made recently was to go into an exclusive relationship with arms wide open and not bring up anything regarding boundaries.

The only reason why I felt I messed up was by reading stories similar to OP’s. I have the same exact problem where she goes for drinks with her male friends 1:1. She’s perfect in every other aspect(cooks, passionate in bed...) but this is not something I would accept. Comply or goodbye.

Right now, I’m lining up some candidates, creating distance between us and only replying sporadically to her texts. I disagree with some of the advice about communicating with her that you fill uncomfortable with her spending time with male friends. She absolutely knows what she’s doing. They are all adept at manipulation and way better than us men.

The main lesson from all this is always have a talk about boundaries and if she balks at any of your requirements, you will pretty much know what’s in store for you in future.

That being said, I’m interested in gathering thoughts regarding how to have the ‘boundaries’ conversation midway in an exclusive relationship without appearing insecure(if one of the boundaries is her seeing her male friends) and setting myself up to be gaslighted.

Yep, that’s why I think there’s only two options here - see the situation for what it is, pull rip cord without saying a word, or the Mei Ling option

Late getting into this thread and have not read the 7 pages of replies but I will chime in based on your original post.

Back when I was blue-pilled and married, my wife left me for one of her male buddies who she then entered a multi-year LTR with. I never thought he was a threat because he was a 4 and she was an 8 or a 9. They barely ever hung out and she almost never talked about him. You just never know with women.

The girl I just dated for a year and recently broke up with had a lot of beta male orbiters. I didn't feel threatened by them because none of them were anywhere close to her in looks, but that may have been naïve on my part given what happened with my ex wife. I'll never know for sure if anything happened with her and any of those guys but I have reason to believe something did.

At the same time, you can't control women either. If a woman wants to cheat, she will cheat. However, I do think that drawing clear boundaries is important because it accomplishes several things. First and foremost is that it forces her to ACT and make a decision on what is more important, seeing her male friends 1:1 or being in a committed relationship with you. In my book, no person in a committed relationship should be spending time 1:1 with someone of the opposite sex. That is a boundary for me and it applies to me equally as it applies to a girl I'm in a relationship with. There are some women who won't accept that boundary, and will try to label me as insecure or controlling for it. That's ok. Those women can go date someone else instead of me. Second is that it reduces the chance that an emotional affair happens, which can then lead to a physical affair, and it reduces the chances of someone meddling in your relationship. If a woman WANTS to cheat, she will, but if your boundaries remove her from the types of situations that evolve into an affair or cheating, it does reduce the risk. And it's also very important that you are standing up for yourself - by setting these boundaries. Good women will respect your doing this.

If you aren't exclusive with a girl, then I wouldn't bring up male friends. I just take note at the stage in the dating process as to if she has any male friends and if so, how many, and how close they are and compare and contrast the same for her female friends. The more male friends she has and the fewer female friends she has, the bigger the red flag. I have learned not to enter exclusive relationships with women like that. But if she asks to be exclusive, and you really want to be, then that would be the time to bring up the guy friends and how you couldn't be in an exclusive relationship with a girl who spends time 1:1 with other men - it's just not what you are looking for.

Because you said you were concerned with how bringing up her guy friend(s) would go, and that she would react negatively to it, I will say that I have learned it is VERY important to form and communicate your own boundaries without thought as to whether a girl is going to like them or not. You can't worry whether or not she will like your boundary. You simply state your boundary and if she doesn't like it, you walk away and never look back.

Yes, sometimes some deeply insecure women will get with a very low SMV guy because they’re terrified of being cheated on + being on their own.

My first love looked like a blue eyed Britney Spears. I was a good looking guy back then, but, as pretty as she was, she was unbelievably possessive. I didn’t really understand boundaries or the root of her insecurities at the time, so it would culminate into explosive arguments. No matter what, it didn’t stop her possessiveness, until one day I get home from work to a Dear John.

To cut a long story short, I find out that she monkey branched with her boss. This utterly knocked me for six because he was around 350 lbs of flab, glasses, ugly, and so camp, everyone thought he was gay.

When I sat down, and tried to make sense of the situation, I realised that her insecurities made her cling to this guy because he was a safe option who, she felt, no other woman would ever find attractive, therefore this eased her abandonment fears.

However, in such relationships, the more attractive one can never feel true sexual attraction for the other, rather they’re just clinging to them because they’re terrified of being abandoned. Also, the ugly one is always in beggar mode, which gives the attractive party a sense of empowerment.

This girl, however, forgot to take into account that this guy had money, so could attract gold diggers. Some years later, she monkey branched on him for a clone, albeit a poor clone. Why? Because being morbidly obese, bald, effeminate, and poor would 100% eliminate competition from any females.

Moral of the story: stay the fvck away from very possessive women. Although it seems flattering at first, you eventually realise that their clinginess stems from abandonment fears. When they realise they can’t manipulate you into being in their sight 24/7, they’ll start searching for your replacement (someone they can control), then poof! You’re gone like you didn’t exist.

 

[rjc149]

The bottom line is advice telling you to not bring it up, let it slide, pretend it's not a big deal -- this reeks of confrontation avoidance. You're avoiding confrontation because you're scared it will turn her off, because you're scared of losing her. It's a fear-based mindset.

Don't be scared of losing her. Call her out. What happens next is for the best.

 

[B80]

The bottom line is advice telling you to not bring it up, let it slide, pretend it's not a big deal -- this reeks of confrontation avoidance. You're avoiding confrontation because you're scared it will turn her off, because you're scared of losing her. It's a fear-based mindset.

Don't be scared of losing her. Call her out. What happens next is for the best.

yeah I'll be doing it for sure. text or in person more effective for this kind of conversation - won't be seeing her until Thursday.

 

[rjc149]

yeah I'll be doing it for sure. text or in person more effective for this kind of conversation - won't be seeing her until Thursday.

Definitely a face to face conversation. You need to see her facial expressions, physical reaction, etc. She needs to see yours too.

 

[B80]

Definitely a face to face conversation. You need to see her facial expressions, physical reaction, etc. She needs to see yours too.

a mate said text first, but I felt face to face better 1) see her reaction 2) more respectable doing more serious chats direct rather than from the safety of hiding behind a screen.

 

[AlphaDraconis]

It would be better if he had Mei Ling, that way, he wouldn’t even need to raise the issue, instead it would be her.

Her: ‘Who the fvck is that ***** watching movies with you? Are you fvccking her!!! You dirty, cheating pig! All men are the same. It’s overrr!

OP: ‘But darling, you have a close male friend too. I don’t say nothing about that’

Her: ‘B-b-but...’

 

[rjc149]

It would be better if he had Mei Ling, that way, he wouldn’t even need to raise the issue, instead it would be her.

Her: ‘Who the fvck is that ***** watching movies with you? Are you fvccking her!!! You dirty, cheating pig! All men are the same. It’s overrr!

OP: ‘But darling, you have a close male friend too. I don’t say nothing about that’

Her: ‘B-b-but...’

Come on now buddy.