LR - 100

[Oatmeal31]

It's really just wanting to do better than I'd be doing if I took whoever came my way.

Question for you. What would you guess your success rate is through cold approach? I've often seen others say the best PUA's hit 10%

How selective are you in who you approach? Headphones on, in a group, rushing, etc.
I personally go up to any girl I find attractive and go up regardless. Usually almost always above average.

And last, do you do this solo for the most part?

 

[SW15]

What would you guess your success rate is through cold approach? I've often seen others say the best PUA's hit 10%

A 10% success rate on approaching strangers would be excellent. Mine is lower single digits and I have numerous years of field experience. I also use stronger frameworks like the London Daygame Model in my approaching. I have used some of Roosh's frameworks as well.

Tom Torero had some insight on this before in his death.

The Art of Daygame Seduction – Tom Torero - Alpha Male 2.0

Today’s article is written by my favorite daygame guy, Tom Torero. There is also a FREE audio component to this article, available for everyone. Tom will also be replying in the comments. Take it away, Tom!

alphamale20.com

What kind of realistic expectations should you have? Well, depending on your starting point, your mileage will vary. But a solid daygamer should be able to get a number from 25% of the girls he approaches. Out of those numbers, 25% should come out on dates. And from those dates, 25% should end up in his bed. If you think those statistics are depressing then look at your ratios for Tinder or dating sites.

Based on this, a daygamer would need to approach 75 women to get 19 phone numbers, 4-5 dates, and 1 new sexual partner. That's using a strong systematic approach like the London Daygame Model. I think a lot of daygamers need to approach more than 75 women to find a new sexual partner. In a better case scenario, it would realistically take most men a while to do the 75 day approaches to find a new sexual partner. Additionally, in going through this, one would probably want that sexual partner to last for some amount of time based on the effort it takes to approach 75 women in non-bar venues.

I think that most daygamers will need to do over 100 approaches (sometimes well over 100 approaches) to get a sexual partner and it will take a lot of time to do that.

When Torero wrote what he wrote, he didn't go down to the level of detail of an approach asking directly for sex vs. one that is a little bit more gradual. The London Daygame Model is based on open-stack-vibe-invest-close, so that's a more gradual method. A London Daygame style opener could be classified as direct or indirect.

How selective are you in who you approach?

More selective than many. @nicksaiz65 and you are big volume approachers. I don't generally approach women using earbuds/headphones, which reduces my outdoor gaming quantity of approaches.

And last, do you do this solo for the most part?

My approaching is mainly solo approaching. I do mostly stranger approaches at non-bar venues. Non-bar approaching is better suited for solo approachers.

I have done nightlife venue approaching solo before, though that's not something I prefer to do.

 

[BPH]

Question for you. What would you guess your success rate is through cold approach? I've often seen others say the best PUA's hit 10%

What do you define as a success? Getting a number? Getting a date? Getting laid? In any case, it's really hard to quantify...on any given night out I'll probably see somewhere between 3 and 5 girls that I find attractive enough to WANT to approach. Usually, at the very least, I'll end up with a phone number.

This girl was the 3rd or 4th I approached that one drunken night when I made the post bi***ing about running into the age issue so much. I got her number, which led to a date, which led to sex, which led to sex again as of last night. By that metric, I'd be sitting at a 25% success rate.

If you include the girls a few weeks prior (the one who invited me to the casino and went cold, and the one who didn't like my answer to the youngest I'd go when it came to women), I'd have a 50% success rate on getting numbers each of those nights, but a 0% success rate on getting a date or laid.

I really have no clue. If I HAD to guess, I'd say my number close rate is probably close to 15%, and of that number, I'd say maybe 1 in every 5 would result in a lay.

How selective are you in who you approach? Headphones on, in a group, rushing, etc.
I personally go up to any girl I find attractive and go up regardless. Usually almost always above average.

Very selective.

First I have to find her attractive, which sounds obvious, but what I'm saying is that I won't really lower my standards just because I want to get laid.

Second, I usually wait just a little bit to get some background info; oh, ok, those are her friends, the guys next to them aren't with her, she looks like she's having fun and isn't "playing mom" for the group, etc. I'll rarely go up to big groups, mixed groups, girls who are painfully sober and there with 1 or 2 friends - because I know what to expect from these interactions, and that they're usually a waste of time.

I will sometimes break my own rules with that, but only really if I believe I won't see her again (on vacation) or am on a time crunch (I'm about to leave or it looks like she's leaving).

And last, do you do this solo for the most part?

Always.

I have not had a single person improve my situation as a wingman beyond providing me a place to bring the girl, and that's only happened maybe twice in my life.

I've had plenty of situations where I'd approach a group or two-set with a friend, hit things off with my girl, then have the interaction fizzle out because the friend didn't like my friend enough to give me alone time with the one I wanted. I once tried to wing with my cousin and approached 2 gorgeous blondes at Seacrets in Ocean City one year. I was really hitting it off with mine, and separated her from her friend and my cousin to go do drinks...the FIRST thing this idiot does is bring his girl back over to mine to tag along with whatever we were doing...needless to say, that interaction didn't last long.

I like going out with my friends, but I absolutely do not rely on them at all when it comes to approaching women. They are idiots. They are not sleeping with attractive women. And they are not sleeping with a lot of women.

I prefer to have my success or failure reliant on me, not them.

 

[Oatmeal31]

​

A 10% success rate on approaching strangers would be excellent. Mine is lower single digits and I have numerous years of field experience. I also use stronger frameworks like the London Daygame Model in my approaching. I have used some of Roosh's frameworks as well.

​

Tom Torero had some insight on this before in his death.

The Art of Daygame Seduction – Tom Torero - Alpha Male 2.0

Today’s article is written by my favorite daygame guy, Tom Torero. There is also a FREE audio component to this article, available for everyone. Tom will also be replying in the comments. Take it away, Tom!

alphamale20.com

Based on this, a daygamer would need to approach 75 women to get 19 phone numbers, 4-5 dates, and 1 new sexual partner. That's using a strong systematic approach like the London Daygame Model. I think a lot of daygamers need to approach more than 75 women to find a new sexual partner. In a better case scenario, it would realistically take most men a while to do the 75 day approaches to find a new sexual partner. Additionally, in going through this, one would probably want that sexual partner to last for some amount of time based on the effort it takes to approach 75 women in non-bar venues.

I think that most daygamers will need to do over 100 approaches (sometimes well over 100 approaches) to get a sexual partner and it will take a lot of time to do that.

When Torero wrote what he wrote, he didn't go down to the level of detail of an approach asking directly for sex vs. one that is a little bit more gradual. The London Daygame Model is based on open-stack-vibe-invest-close, so that's a more gradual method. A London Daygame style opener could be classified as direct or indirect.



More selective than many. @nicksaiz65 and you are big volume approachers. I don't generally approach women using earbuds/headphones, which reduces my outdoor gaming quantity of approaches.



My approaching is mainly solo approaching. I do mostly stranger approaches at non-bar venues. Non-bar approaching is better suited for solo approachers.

I have done nightlife venue approaching solo before, though that's not something I prefer to do.

What do you define as a success? Getting a number? Getting a date? Getting laid? In any case, it's really hard to quantify...on any given night out I'll probably see somewhere between 3 and 5 girls that I find attractive enough to WANT to approach. Usually, at the very least, I'll end up with a phone number.

This girl was the 3rd or 4th I approached that one drunken night when I made the post bi***ing about running into the age issue so much. I got her number, which led to a date, which led to sex, which led to sex again as of last night. By that metric, I'd be sitting at a 25% success rate.

If you include the girls a few weeks prior (the one who invited me to the casino and went cold, and the one who didn't like my answer to the youngest I'd go when it came to women), I'd have a 50% success rate on getting numbers each of those nights, but a 0% success rate on getting a date or laid.

I really have no clue. If I HAD to guess, I'd say my number close rate is probably close to 15%, and of that number, I'd say maybe 1 in every 5 would result in a lay.



Very selective.

First I have to find her attractive, which sounds obvious, but what I'm saying is that I won't really lower my standards just because I want to get laid.

Second, I usually wait just a little bit to get some background info; oh, ok, those are her friends, the guys next to them aren't with her, she looks like she's having fun and isn't "playing mom" for the group, etc. I'll rarely go up to big groups, mixed groups, girls who are painfully sober and there with 1 or 2 friends - because I know what to expect from these interactions, and that they're usually a waste of time.

I will sometimes break my own rules with that, but only really if I believe I won't see her again (on vacation) or am on a time crunch (I'm about to leave or it looks like she's leaving).



Always.

I have not had a single person improve my situation as a wingman beyond providing me a place to bring the girl, and that's only happened maybe twice in my life.

I've had plenty of situations where I'd approach a group or two-set with a friend, hit things off with my girl, then have the interaction fizzle out because the friend didn't like my friend enough to give me alone time with the one I wanted. I once tried to wing with my cousin and approached 2 gorgeous blondes at Seacrets in Ocean City one year. I was really hitting it off with mine, and separated her from her friend and my cousin to go do drinks...the FIRST thing this idiot does is bring his girl back over to mine to tag along with whatever we were doing...needless to say, that interaction didn't last long.

I like going out with my friends, but I absolutely do not rely on them at all when it comes to approaching women. They are idiots. They are not sleeping with attractive women. And they are not sleeping with a lot of women.

I prefer to have my success or failure reliant on me, not them.

Getting laid or some kind of sexual action is success to me. And yeah, I feel that wingmen/friends can backfire unless they know to be cool and give space. I also 100% solo.

You don't approach big groups but don't you feel that a friend or two can help with that? So it doesn't end up as a 1v3+ scenario where one girl typically tries to ****block

 

[BPH]

You don't approach big groups but don't you feel that a friend or two can help with that? So it doesn't end up as a 1v3+ scenario where one girl typically tries to ****block

Generally, no.

A group of 2-3 is one thing, and I can usually handle that; compliment the one I want, introduce myself to the others, then go back to talking to the one I want and pretend the others don't exist unless they chime in.

But a BIG group is usually there for a reason. A birthday, a graduation, a formal affair - something. The point is that those girls came as a group and likely intend to leave as a group. They're not there to meet men - they're there to celebrate a thing with all their friends and to make an appearance for the "guest of honor" while making sure whoever that is gets home safe.

I find it much easier to isolate a girl I'm interested in from a small group, compared to hoping my buddy isn't an idiot and the friends like him enough to give me space. Most guys are idiots. I've had many more situations where a friend injected themselves into an interaction and made it worse when I didn't need them, compared to being able to count on one hand the number of times they've made it better.

 

[SW15]

A group of 2-3 is one thing, and I can usually handle that; compliment the one I want, introduce myself to the others, then go back to talking to the one I want and pretend the others don't exist unless they chime in.

I tend to prefer the groups of 2-3 for nightlife venue approaching. In daygame, I prefer if the woman is already alone and isolated.

But a BIG group is usually there for a reason. A birthday, a graduation, a formal affair - something. The point is that those girls came as a group and likely intend to leave as a group. They're not there to meet men - they're there to celebrate a thing with all their friends and to make an appearance for the "guest of honor" while making sure whoever that is gets home safe.

I find it much easier to isolate a girl I'm interested in from a small group, compared to hoping my buddy isn't an idiot and the friends like him enough to give me space. Most guys are idiots. I've had many more situations where a friend injected themselves into an interaction and made it worse when I didn't need them, compared to being able to count on one hand the number of times they've made it better.

Roosh had an idea that he would only approach groups of 3 or less. Since women rarely go out alone, that means Roosh was mainly dealing with women in groups of 2-3. Roosh promoted the idea that women were more approachable and serious about meeting men if the group size was only 2 or 3.

The most controversial large group in pickup circles is the large group of women that tend to go out for bachelorette parties. Some men think bachelorette party attendees are looking for sex with new men. Others think that bachelorette parties are more attention whorres than actual whorres. I tend to believe the 2nd idea that women at bachelorette parties are seeking attention more than new penis.

The other reasons you mentioned are less controversial. I think your idea there is based in solid reality. That's been my experience with the larger groups.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Generally, no.

A group of 2-3 is one thing, and I can usually handle that; compliment the one I want, introduce myself to the others, then go back to talking to the one I want and pretend the others don't exist unless they chime in.

But a BIG group is usually there for a reason. A birthday, a graduation, a formal affair - something. The point is that those girls came as a group and likely intend to leave as a group. They're not there to meet men - they're there to celebrate a thing with all their friends and to make an appearance for the "guest of honor" while making sure whoever that is gets home safe.

I find it much easier to isolate a girl I'm interested in from a small group, compared to hoping my buddy isn't an idiot and the friends like him enough to give me space. Most guys are idiots. I've had many more situations where a friend injected themselves into an interaction and made it worse when I didn't need them, compared to being able to count on one hand the number of times they've made it better.

It’d be dope if you could talk about group pulling dynamics again. I remember you saying you often went with the group.

 

[BPH]

It’d be dope if you could talk about group pulling dynamics again. I remember you saying you often went with the group.

What do you mean?

I would often go out with a group, but they were a non-factor when it came to my approaching. I'm not sure what you want me to elaborate on.

 

[nicksaiz65]

What do you mean?

I would often go out with a group, but they were a non-factor when it came to my approaching. I'm not sure what you want me to elaborate on.

As in, pulling girls who are in groups when you’re out solo.

 

[BPH]

As in, pulling girls who are in groups when you’re out solo.

Ah. Did you have specific questions about that, or did you want me to write up a post, or what were you looking to have fleshed out a bit?

 

[SW15]

As in, pulling girls who are in groups when you’re out solo.

I'll add my 2 cents on that.

When a man does solo nightlife venue approaching, it's best to focus on groups of 2-3. Groups of 2-3 are more serious about meeting men. The larger groups are not. While it is possible to pull from a larger group, it's far more difficult. I wouldn't recommend doing that, especially when you are solo.

There's been an idea in the past that a group of 2 will be more manageable for a solo male. That's generally not the case. For the most part, a man is going to connect better with one of the two women in the two set. When that happens, the other female is left to fend for herself. That creates an awkward dynamic and most females in a two set don't want to see that awkward dynamic happen. A group of 2 works better when you are with one other wing.

Groups of 3 are the absolute best option for a solo nightlife venue approacher male. In this scenario, you will connect best with one of the 3 women. The other 2 women are left to socialize with each other and there isn't the same awkward dynamic.

I would recommend a focus on women in groups of 3 when going out to nightlife venues alone.

Picking off one female in a group of 4+ is problematic.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Ah. Did you have specific questions about that, or did you want me to write up a post, or what were you looking to have fleshed out a bit?

Yeah, if you had the time to write a post, that’d be dope. It’s a situation you’ll run into with basically every set when you go out solo.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I'll add my 2 cents on that.

When a man does solo nightlife venue approaching, it's best to focus on groups of 2-3. Groups of 2-3 are more serious about meeting men. The larger groups are not. While it is possible to pull from a larger group, it's far more difficult. I wouldn't recommend doing that, especially when you are solo.

There's been an idea in the past that a group of 2 will be more manageable for a solo male. That's generally not the case. For the most part, a man is going to connect better with one of the two women in the two set. When that happens, the other female is left to fend for herself. That creates an awkward dynamic and most females in a two set don't want to see that awkward dynamic happen. A group of 2 works better when you are with one other wing.

Groups of 3 are the absolute best option for a solo nightlife venue approacher male. In this scenario, you will connect best with one of the 3 women. The other 2 women are left to socialize with each other and there isn't the same awkward dynamic.

I would recommend a focus on women in groups of 3 when going out to nightlife venues alone.

Picking off one female in a group of 4+ is problematic.

This makes sense. It’s tempting to think that those huge bachelorette parties are out to meet someone but they often aren’t.

 

[BPH]

Yeah, if you had the time to write a post, that’d be dope. It’s a situation you’ll run into with basically every set when you go out solo.

What would you like answered?

 

[nicksaiz65]

What would you like answered?

I was basically just looking for an overview of the strategy again. Like, what are you thinking and what’s your plan from meeting the 3 set(or more I guess) out and getting the girl you want back home to sex?

I’ve heard of some people isolating the girl they want from the group after befriending them.

Or like… do I invite them all back when I’m trying to get the girl I want?

Im still working on locking my strategy in when I do these sessions. In the last pull I had, it just kinda flowed tbh.

 

[SW15]

It’s tempting to think that those huge bachelorette parties are out to meet someone but they often aren’t.

I think there's an idea instilled in men from blue pill mass media that bachelorette party women are seeking a night of debauchery with men. It's a less common outcome with the majority of bachelorette parties.

You are a pickup artist in the Broadway area of Nashville. Nashville is a major destination for bachelorette parties. You have plenty of exposure to bachelorette parties.

They are a waste of time.

do I invite them all back when I’m trying to get the girl I want?

No. Why would you think that? You make the invitation solely to the woman you want.

I’ve heard of some people isolating the girl they want from the group after befriending them.

You are looking to create isolation in any nightlife venue scenario and even some daygame ones. In daygame, women are more likely to already be isolated from friends (ex. grocery shopping alone) so creating isolation is less of a necessary skill for daygamers.

It is very unusual for a woman to show up to a nightlife venue alone. You are going to need to creation isolation to escalate into something. Ideally, you are seeking same night sex from the interaction but you might be able to accept making future plans together if you're able to create a meaningful conversation and can find some commonality that could warrant a future interaction.

Happy hours on weeknights are better uses of nightlife venues for arranging future first dates. Later in the night is meant for getting to same night sex.

Do not accept a phone number and do not ask for a phone without a specific social outing arranged for the future. This social outing is often called a first date.

The phone number is useless without the date.

 

[Oatmeal31]

What would you like answered?

How about c0ckblocking. Lotta the time, it happens. Do I have to defuse the ticking bomb before she gets jealous and interjects? I had a scenario the other day, where I went up to couple of girls on the street, focused on one, and the other friend felt the need to interject and say that she's seeing someone. Wtf? Who asked you? I told her that she can speak for herself, have a good day, and bounced.

That sh!t is annoying. I used to introduce myself to groups but I still ran into the same issue. So lately anytime I deal with c0ckblockers I tell them the girl I'm into can speak for herself, and just walk away.

What I plan on doing now is just ignoring c0ckblockers and continue the interaction if the girl I'm into is clearly into it. If not, peace

 

[BPH]

@nicksaiz65 @Oatmeal31 I'll try to write up a little something tomorrow.

 

[Aurora Demon]

How old are you and what age did you first have sex?

 

[BPH]

How old are you and what age did you first have sex?

I'm 31, as of April 27th, and I lost my virginity when I was 17, a few months before my 18th birthday. I can't remember exactly when - I think it was late January or February.