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Lover/Provider Dichotomy is Over: Three Tier System Now

Pan87

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I agree with everything you said except the last sentence. Learning game is good, but the fundamental solution is becoming your own success and jacking up your T levels. You'll become the person who elicits emotions in a lot of these women.
Game is that. Game is a combination of learning how to communicate effectively (basically Sales), loving yourself, finding your own purpose in life, and enjoying women on your own terms (and not on her terms).
 

BadBoy89

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There are quite a few bro's I've met who've got their act together: good job, good health, standard or even well above average good looking guys. In theory, these guys should fit easily into the "lover" or "alpha" category.
Good job good health and good looking nothing to do with lover. It’s provider.

Seen a lot of ugly fat guys with no hair with hot young women. Not that a man shouldn’t look good, but one has nothing to do with the other.

What's odd is that they're getting a lukewarm reception from the ladies. They're certainly not getting rejected outright or treated like pariahs, but the women are showing at best moderate interest and it's clear that many of these guys are getting friendzoned.
Again one has nothing to do with the other.

A man is turned on by sexy stripper type with tight clothes and high heels and young face. Yet he won’t bring her home to mom.
A man is not turned on by a frumpy overweight girl who has a PhD. He will bring her home to mom.

Women are the same thing.

She will have a one nighter with an unemployed bloke.
Won’t be the same guy she will bring home to mom.
 

Pan87

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Women are the same thing.
Men and Women aren't the same tho...

How men and women approach the sexual marketplace is completely different.

Women are not anywhere near as motivated by casual sex and "sport fvcks" as men are. That should be painfully obvious by now to guys who are dealing with lots of women.

Women are motivated to have sex when she's attracted to a guy, and that happens with the guy communicates with her in a certain way i.e. Game.

Women will sometimes just have casual sex with random guys, often when they are intoxicated or on the rebound (or both). But the effects of this are predictable. Women almost always feel slvtty and dirty and not good about themselves after they have these types of experiences. And this is on a fundamental biological level. Casual sex damages women, and all women know it.

It's why women hate being called "slvt" - it hurts them on a deep biological and primal level. On a primal level - each new penis a woman takes lowers her value and makes her a second/third/fourth-hand product.
 

mrskinnypantz

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The landscape moves with you. You're going to the gym? Great. You're earning more money? Great. So are many, many others guys. So many guys are into self improvement now. There are no shortages of these men available in 2021. This won't help you with women much because there's too much abundance for women now.
Tru , if you’re tall , rich and handsome.
you’re just competing with other tall rich handsome guys
 

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Pan87

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If she comes across a tall rich handsome dude with game you’re done tho
Depends who gamed her first. If tall, rich, handsome guy gets there 2nd, and the average dude has already gotten her attracted with Game....

Then the rich, tall, handsome guy is done.

I've been there many times myself. I have been passed up for uglier guys with game who simply got there before me.

This is how powerful Game is. You hook a girl in and she is literally hooked. Other guys become invisible and even annoying to her.
 

mrskinnypantz

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Depends who gamed her first. If tall, rich, handsome guy gets there 2nd, and the average dude has already gotten her attracted with Game....

Then the rich, tall, handsome guy is done.

I've been there many times myself. I have been passed up for uglier guys with game who simply got there before me.

This is how powerful Game is. You hook a girl in and she is literally hooked. Other guys become invisible and even annoying to her.
I’ve seen women get annoyed by runner ups
 

RickTheToad

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When it comes to figuring out Men and Women, the sexual marketplace, and how people are coupling and pairing in 2021 - I can't think of anything better than sinking some time into analyzing this important topic. If I didn't spend time thinking about this stuff then I'd probably only have a lifetime notch count of 5 and I might even be married now. What a tragedy that would've been.

Pretty much everything we do in life, as men, is for pvssy. There's no escaping it. Men need to grasp what this all means, and how to manage our desire for pvssy so that it doesn't ruin our lives.
Pus is great, but it's not the be all end all dude. There are more important things in life than just pus.
 

LARaiders85

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The last several times I've been out, I'm seeing something interesting.

There are quite a few bro's I've met who've got their act together: good job, good health, standard or even well above average good looking guys. In theory, these guys should fit easily into the "lover" or "alpha" category.

What's odd is that they're getting a lukewarm reception from the ladies. They're certainly not getting rejected outright or treated like pariahs, but the women are showing at best moderate interest and it's clear that many of these guys are getting friendzoned.

Obviously, guys who are not fit and not good looking are still getting the cold shoulder, and the 'reception' borders on overt hostility.

Meanwhile, there are guys who are monopolizing all of the attention of the women and when these guys show up, the guys just a step below are being completely abandoned.

This signals to me that there is a 3 tier system now:

1. top dogs with monopoly access

2. run of the mill good looking guys good looking women will settle for, but not be thrilled to be with. In the past, women might be very happy to be with guys in this tier, but no longer.

3. guys who struggle because of their looks and have to spend significantly more time to find a girlfriend or settle for average/below average looking girls.

I won't say this is alarming but some predicted that after a year to year and a half of limited socializing and dating options, women in theory should be LESS selective and more eager to date in general, but I'm seeing women become even MORE selective.

I wrote about reverse hypergamy as well, and I think this happens when 'top dogs' aren't available in the local area so women are forced into relationships with providers.
Largely true. Well-rounded isn't highly valued anymore.
 

metalwater

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Men and Women aren't the same tho...

How men and women approach the sexual marketplace is completely different.

Women are not anywhere near as motivated by casual sex and "sport fvcks" as men are. That should be painfully obvious by now to guys who are dealing with lots of women.

Women are motivated to have sex when she's attracted to a guy, and that happens with the guy communicates with her in a certain way i.e. Game.

Women will sometimes just have casual sex with random guys, often when they are intoxicated or on the rebound (or both). But the effects of this are predictable. Women almost always feel slvtty and dirty and not good about themselves after they have these types of experiences. And this is on a fundamental biological level. Casual sex damages women, and all women know it.

It's why women hate being called "slvt" - it hurts them on a deep biological and primal level. On a primal level - each new penis a woman takes lowers her value and makes her a second/third/fourth-hand product.
thats how a man thinks she thinks. she thinks how she thinks.

when you have an ace, you play it when you want to win. I mean she...
 

stringpuller

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Meanwhile, there are guys who are monopolizing all of the attention of the women and when these guys show up
In this theory who are these men. If not like the men you described who have done well for themselves.
 

BeExcellent

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Advice from the old lady:

It’s kind of silly all this comparing and categorizing of men. And it’s always done (the comparisons) by people who come from a place of lack. They feel they lack something and it’s their way of rationalizing why and how that lack is justified.

Men who are successful with women aren’t making these comparisons. Give that a think.

Also. No single person is going to appeal to everyone. Men who are successful with women understand this and cut bait immediately when a chick isn’t interested. In other word they are ruthlessly efficient. They might proposition a girl to fvck him in the bathroom immediately upon meeting or they might play it more mysterious and cool. It depends on how they read the woman. This is game. It essentially is skill at reading people and knowing how far you can push it in that moment.

They simply act and do as they please in the moment. They aren’t worried about schemes and whether or not they are likable. They aren’t thinking of scripts and strategies in their heads. They are being, not analyzing.

As far as who appeals to who it doesn’t really matter. People choose partners for myriad criteria that are unique to that person. Similarly different people are attractive for different reasons.

But there are some typically applicable generalizations we can mostly apply. Such as:

Men are attracted first to physical beauty/hotness…

Women are attracted first to interestingness. If a man is interesting he will get a lot of play, looks are less important than being interesting.

And this difference messes up lots of guys who don’t grasp this.

Ideally a man meets ALL a woman’s needs. Mine does. When I see him naked I think he looks like Adonis personified, when he is goofy and sweet I think he is adorable; when he’s all about his passions & profession I think how I’m so proud of him. All these things together make me delighted he is my lover, my companion and my partner. I do not see anybody else no matter how good looking, successful or jacked a guy happens to be. I’m into MY guy. End of story.

Be interesting. Think of the Dos Equis beer commercials. Be the most interesting man you can be….

Cheers
 

mrskinnypantz

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it’s always done (the comparisons) by people who come from a place of lack. They feel they lack something and it’s their way of rationalizing why and how that lack is justified.

Men who are successful with women aren’t making these comparisons. Give that a think.
This is very true
Because a man who is successful ,has no need to compare or rationalize how and why they lack
 

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Francis

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Women are not visual like men are. It's all about their emotions and feelings. Men can't comprehend this, which is why most men are failing. Men are in a mad panic because none of their strategies work reliably. So men work even harder to achieve even more of the things that women don't really care about as much as "feelz" - money, fitness, status etc.
Have you ever associated with guys who were considered very good looking? I understand we all have our own experiences, but what you say does not match the reality I've personally experienced or witnessed from other successful men. Women always chose the best looking guys, and they are very visual. In fact, every compliment I've ever gotten from women was based on looks. And this is no nonsense, straight to the point. The typical interaction started with a stare (from them), and when we hung around, they were super happy and giggly, touching, complimenting, and the whole nine. There was never anything about "feels". They had a crush or crushes, just like we do. Nothing had to be done other than be around them and talk normally. No wit or cleverness. And guys who had "game" and were more experienced and confident did not beat me when it came to women, even when I was a huge chump and nice guy. And believe me they tried, even some of my own fake friends at the time. They'd say that I was inexperienced to make me look bad, but it didn't matter. On top of that I was extremely shy for a long time. I've also had women specifically tell me (usually after asking) that they chose me over another guy because they thought I was better looking.

Likewise for other good looking guys. All they had to do was leave the house and women would stare and howl. They'd smile and cheer up just by being around them. It is no different from what men do to women, contrary to what you've stated. Literally all women talk about and obsess over is hot guys. If you are attractive women will look at you a lot. And they check you out just like men do to women. This is without knowing them.

Women get crushes and they lust after attractive men. How in the world are you going to say that they aren't visual?

**None of this is to brag. These are personal experiences which contradict what you say, to make a point, is all.

Men and Women aren't the same tho...

How men and women approach the sexual marketplace is completely different.

Women are not anywhere near as motivated by casual sex and "sport fvcks" as men are. That should be painfully obvious by now to guys who are dealing with lots of women.

Women are motivated to have sex when she's attracted to a guy, and that happens with the guy communicates with her in a certain way i.e. Game.

Women will sometimes just have casual sex with random guys, often when they are intoxicated or on the rebound (or both). But the effects of this are predictable. Women almost always feel slvtty and dirty and not good about themselves after they have these types of experiences. And this is on a fundamental biological level. Casual sex damages women, and all women know it.
This also doesn't match what I've experienced. They wanted the hottest guys to show off and have sex with, and they were real direct about wanting sex as well. At least as direct as women can be. Of course they would try to make the guy pursue it, but it was definitely their idea. 9 times out of 10, they just wanted to make sure the guy was OK with it first (and willing to take the blame). They didn't have to be drunk or on the rebound to initiate sex. And they were quite detailed about the things they wanted to do.

Women don't feel damaged about having casual sex, from what I've seen. They just don't want to be perceived as slutty by either the guy or anyone else who might find out. That's why they say things like "I'm not *****, I don't usually do this, I don't want you to think I'm a *****". If you've had sex with a girl not long after you met her, this is the kind of stuff they say. They still proceed on with no qualms. In fact, it usually doesn't matter if she's dating or married to someone either. They always justify it and blame the guy or play dumb. I've been there when they did it, being part of the same social group at times.

To clarify: I was very passive, insecure, naive, and so on while at my peak and missed a lot of opportunities. But the signs and offers were clear. But other guys I knew very well had a lot of casual sex with many women. And these girls were obsessed with these guys because they were hot, sexy, and/or gorgeous. That's it. They'd hook up with them incredibly fast.

I should also point out that all these guys were relatively short (under 6 feet, some down to 5'7-5'8) and not rich. A couple of them could barely hold down a job, sold and smoked weed for a living, and bummed at whoever's place they could find. And a couple more fumbled like crazy when it came to communication and were pretty much douchebags. Some were for the most part loners and didn't get involved in social crowds. None of it mattered because they were "hot".

The best looking guys were also the ones who had the best looking women. League for league. The gorgeous guys were dating & hooking up (and cheating on) gorgeous women. Average guys with "game" were getting average women. I've seen it right in front of my eyes, being part of various circles and having friendships with others.

There were a couple other posts you made that I left out, but I'm just replying to the general point being made about girls not being visual and so on. Nothing personal intended.
 

oc16

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I don't know, here in New Jersey.....

I see plenty of men below 6 feet and average looking men pulling above their weight in looks and I've seen some good looking guys with women who weren't that great looking.

I was at a white trashy bar tonight and it was Halloween night. I didn't dress up, but I was getting a decent amount of looks because most of the competition was shorter, fatter and uglier than me.

I got some late 40s, 50 something woman's number.

Had good eye contact with a much younger 7.5 across the bar, but her two friends were not attractive at all. I did talk to the 7.5 later in the night, but she didn't seem interested.
 

Pan87

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Have you ever associated with guys who were considered very good looking? I understand we all have our own experiences, but what you say does not match the reality I've personally experienced or witnessed from other successful men. Women always chose the best looking guys, and they are very visual. In fact, every compliment I've ever gotten from women was based on looks. And this is no nonsense, straight to the point. The typical interaction started with a stare (from them), and when we hung around, they were super happy and giggly, touching, complimenting, and the whole nine. There was never anything about "feels". They had a crush or crushes, just like we do. Nothing had to be done other than be around them and talk normally. No wit or cleverness. And guys who had "game" and were more experienced and confident did not beat me when it came to women, even when I was a huge chump and nice guy. And believe me they tried, even some of my own fake friends at the time. They'd say that I was inexperienced to make me look bad, but it didn't matter. On top of that I was extremely shy for a long time. I've also had women specifically tell me (usually after asking) that they chose me over another guy because they thought I was better looking.

Likewise for other good looking guys. All they had to do was leave the house and women would stare and howl. They'd smile and cheer up just by being around them. It is no different from what men do to women, contrary to what you've stated. Literally all women talk about and obsess over is hot guys. If you are attractive women will look at you a lot. And they check you out just like men do to women. This is without knowing them.

Women get crushes and they lust after attractive men. How in the world are you going to say that they aren't visual?

**None of this is to brag. These are personal experiences which contradict what you say, to make a point, is all.



This also doesn't match what I've experienced. They wanted the hottest guys to show off and have sex with, and they were real direct about wanting sex as well. At least as direct as women can be. Of course they would try to make the guy pursue it, but it was definitely their idea. 9 times out of 10, they just wanted to make sure the guy was OK with it first (and willing to take the blame). They didn't have to be drunk or on the rebound to initiate sex. And they were quite detailed about the things they wanted to do.

Women don't feel damaged about having casual sex, from what I've seen. They just don't want to be perceived as slutty by either the guy or anyone else who might find out. That's why they say things like "I'm not *****, I don't usually do this, I don't want you to think I'm a *****". If you've had sex with a girl not long after you met her, this is the kind of stuff they say. They still proceed on with no qualms. In fact, it usually doesn't matter if she's dating or married to someone either. They always justify it and blame the guy or play dumb. I've been there when they did it, being part of the same social group at times.

To clarify: I was very passive, insecure, naive, and so on while at my peak and missed a lot of opportunities. But the signs and offers were clear. But other guys I knew very well had a lot of casual sex with many women. And these girls were obsessed with these guys because they were hot, sexy, and/or gorgeous. That's it. They'd hook up with them incredibly fast.

I should also point out that all these guys were relatively short (under 6 feet, some down to 5'7-5'8) and not rich. A couple of them could barely hold down a job, sold and smoked weed for a living, and bummed at whoever's place they could find. And a couple more fumbled like crazy when it came to communication and were pretty much douchebags. Some were for the most part loners and didn't get involved in social crowds. None of it mattered because they were "hot".

The best looking guys were also the ones who had the best looking women. League for league. The gorgeous guys were dating & hooking up (and cheating on) gorgeous women. Average guys with "game" were getting average women. I've seen it right in front of my eyes, being part of various circles and having friendships with others.

There were a couple other posts you made that I left out, but I'm just replying to the general point being made about girls not being visual and so on. Nothing personal intended.
I didn't say girls weren't visual. I'm saying guys are far more visual than girls are.

Girls take into account things like confidence and body language and vibe etc.
 

stringpuller

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Truth is this. Its the whole package.
Looks matter
Recources matter
Social status matters however broad.
Confidence matters
Kindness matters
Understanding female psychology matters
How you communicate matters
Understanding womaneese matters

Every point in the game matters. Hit your weaknesses. Dont obsess over it. Or 1 girl. Work out take care of your own value.
Be charitable when you do and show kindness when its needed.
This dividing LMS stuff only puts you further in the hole because there is more then just LMS.
I would even rank keeping your emotional self in check higher on the order then even money. .02
 

Francis

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I didn't say girls weren't visual. I'm saying guys are far more visual than girls are.

Girls take into account things like confidence and body language and vibe etc.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I was getting a much different vibe from some of the posts. And you are right about that. None of the guys were a physical mess by any means and took very care of themselves when it came to appearance. They were also all jerks, but hid it well in the beginning until they got what they wanted. Then it was basically "Why are you still here / What do you want?" It's possible the girls were pining over them after that, but they had so many that they didn't care. And the bragged about their exploits constantly.

There is no doubt in my mind that the girls knew what they were getting themselves into. They went straight for the hottest guys and there is no possible way that all these girls were single. I know for a fact that they weren't when I started attracting them. They always had an excuse to justify it, by complaining about how horrible the guy they're currently with is (and at times I knew these guys and they weren't -- other men knew it too, and would say how horrible the women are), claiming to be on the rocks, etc. At the time I didn't realize it, being overly sympathetic and naive, but the double standards and level of hypocrisy was pretty insane. And the entitlement. These girls would throw major hissy fits, try to destroy my reputation, and complain non-stop because the person they were trying to cheat with and perhaps monkey branch to, because they were deemed better and more exciting, wasn't going for it. Loyalty made no difference and even seemed to turn them off. They wanted the unavailable, "exciting" the guy they didn't know or couldn't get (as long as he was hot, of course).

The guy they were currently seeing and didn't have interest in and were using for whatever reason (to say they had someone, be on the same level as their peers, because no one else wanted them, the guy had a lot of money... take your pick) really didn't matter to them at all. Neither did the guys they were pining after. It was all about ego and getting the perceived "prize". Some of the guys were just horrible and over-exaggerated their greatness, but it still didn't matter. I never once heard the women mention anything about a guy's character or personality. Many of them said things like "I hope to marry a rich guy" and would mention all the guys they used for whatever purpose: "this guy helps with my computer problems, that guy does maintenance", etc, like it was no big deal. I can almost guarantee that they were labeled appropriately in their phones. And they all had "lots of guy friends".

But to be fair, a lot of the things people say about good looking women being unfair and narcissistic also applies to good looking men. Just like a lot of people are only as nice as they have to be, and will do whatever they can get away with (be a chump and see how fast you get used & bullied), they are only as faithful as their options.
 
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