Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Live while you can; society gonna plunge in ~30yrs

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nibun

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Originally posted by diplomatic_lie
And those few, developed countries have billions of dollars of funding in programs specifically designed to predict future events and work on them. This isn't a depression, you're talking about potential anarchy and armageddon.

Now on the other hand, what expertise do you offer in contrast to the government departments?


I don't doubt there are people looking into the problem, but can you provide details (name of program, funding, etc)? The way politics work in this country (and most others) makes it nearly impossible to solve these problems. All elected officials have term limits, during which they'll do their best to serve their constituent's interest. And constituents (like you and me) generally care about their present day well-being. Americans are too used to instant gratification; they want the best as soon as possible, and they'll reject any politician with future-minded policies that cut into their current quality of life.

I'm not saying armageddon will happen, what I am saying the overall quality of life in this country will keep deteriorating at a faster and faster rate.

As for my research, I've analyzed over 100 articles & websites on both sides (the doomsayers and the naysers). While that doesn't make me an expert, I think my opinion is fairly well-informed. It'll take too long to list them all, but here's a select few from National Geographic, MSNBC, and the Washington Post :

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0406/feature5/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6249750/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5080-2004May31.html



Originally posted by MetalFortress
Have you studied both sides of the story, Nibun? Or have you just studied the side of it you are advocating? Why not also say that the US presidency is one big huge illuminati conspiracy?

You can't gauge alternative energy sources now by their development in the past 20 years, because they haven't been the focus of so much research and development. From hydrogen to biodiesel to ethanol, even people running diesel vehicles off of old vegetable oil, a lot more is being done than has been in the past. Hybrid car technology will become a tool for more than just tech geeks and liberal nutjobs, as companies like Honda and Toyota (yes, the Prius still blows) spread out the technology into everyday sedans, vans trucks and SUVs, and even exotic supercars that today take a ton of gas. If alternate energy sources have even 1/3 the concentration put into them for the next ten years that the internet has had for the last ten years, I think the "oil crisis" will be averted.

Yes, I have studied and debated on both sides (and I even won all my debates on the naysayer side too). So I'm familiar with most of the arguments for either side. And please, I'm not accusing our president (or anyone) of conspiracy. They are doing exactly what they were elected to do: catering to people's short-term wants & needs. They were not voted-in to care about what's gonna happen to the world decades from now.

I hate to say bad things about Hybrid cars and other alternative fuels, but unfortunately things are not that simple. I (and many others) will be driving hybrid cars, but that will only contribute to the problem, not solve it. Every hybrid car takes more energy to manfucature than a conventional car, because of the extra R&D costs. That energy still comes from oil. And consider this, if you gave up on the SUV you bought just 3 yrs ago for a new hybrid, you are disposing of a product much sooner than it's expected life-of-service. All the resources that went into creating that SUV in the first place will be wasted.

The hybrid car fits in perfectly with the idea that you should always buy the latest and the greatest. It's another marketing tool to get people to buy more stuff. People feel good about hybrid cars right now; it has good PR, and of course companies are gonna take advantage. The irony is that they'll roll out products that really aren't more efficient than conventional gas vehicles. For example, the projected efficiency for hybrid SUV's is ~32 mpg. We already have cars (ahem, Civics), that get ~34 mpg. The best thing that people can do that actually benefits EVERYONE is not to buy new vehicles, but to keep whatever they have and use it for as long as possible. But this is hardly realistic, as people will generally do things that are best for themselves before they care about others (I am guilty of this too).


Originally posted by squirrels


Economically, supply and demand will tighten around oil consumption like a noose until people are FORCED to either start conserving or find alternate transportation.

What you'll start to see is people moving back to the cities. Right now, too many people live in outlying suburbs and commute many, MANY miles to work each day. When fuel becomes tight, people will start moving back to the cities, closer to the jobs, and mass-transit will become a priority. You can live in a city like New York pretty much without EVER owning a car. People will start building UP instead of OUT, and cars will be weekend luxury cruisers instead of constant daily drivers.

It's not going to hit "all at once" tomorrow and suddenly we will be DRY on oil. People are already seeing the effects of diminishing fossil fuel supplies. Cars are being built which can run on corn oil...corn you can grow in fields. And the hydrogen thing IS a joke right now, because you DO need fossil fuel energy to dissociate the hydrogen from the oxygen in water. What they need to do is start exploring SOLAR energy. Dammit, we've got a fusion reactor thousands of times the size of our planet and we're still only harnessing its energy in the form of decomposed organic waste (fossil fuels).

It'll happen. Only question is "when". But it's not a doomsday scenario. We have alternatives. They just need to become more profitable than the existing system before companies will take them seriously. And they WILL long before we reach a "crisis."
If gas were a normal commidity, then yeah, people will react like you predicted. Unfortunately, the demand for gas is inelastic, (see http://www.mackinac.org/article.asp?ID=1247) meaning people won't change their buying habits much as prices go up.

I do admit that I'm making this sound worse than it probably will be, but we are definitely looking at the end of cheap oil in America and world-wide. A crisis may or may not happen, and even if it does it won't be overnight. It'll be gradual. It remains to be seen whether alternative energy sources can ease the problem. Our best bet right now is nuclear energy, but with it having such a bad rep I doubt there'll be developments in that area.
 

padrote

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Originally posted by Hypoxia II
Now Hybrid vehicles are evolving and being mass produced. True they're not gonna win in the quarter mile but they can keep up with traffic.
Actually Hybrid vehicles are capable of faster acceleration.

"During full throttle acceleration, the engine and the motor both drive the wheels, working together to provide acceleration and performance better than conventional vehicles."

http://www.visionengineer.com/env/hv.shtml
 

MindOverMatter

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I agree with the original poster. I already started training and honing my gladiatorial skills for when the Thunderdome opens up.

two walk in, one walks out beeeeeatch!
 

azza

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i agree to live life to the full thing but dont waste it coz ur gonna b alive for more than 3o yrs
 

comic_relief

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Ummm... I almost never ask any questions on the forums but since if a crash does occur and there is a famine (all machines are run by oil) wouldn't the population decline at a very steep rate? Therefore the decline of people would be less amount of oil and energy be used by these people?

The end of civilization? hardly. If we don't work on changing our dependence on foreign oil we will be screwed.
 

7 Virtues

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Originally posted by TillTheEndOfTime
Just a heads up on global warming. It does not exist. There is as much scientific evidence against it as there is for it.

The world has gone through many cycles where the weather was hotter than usual and colder than usual (ice-age anyone?). The weather we are seeing lately is not out of the ordinary in terms of these cycles.
Global warming doesn't exist? The evidence is against you buddy. Not only that, but you contradict yourself in the next paragraph!

Anyone who knos what they are talking about, knows global warming is happening. And they know that people are having a influence on the rate of warming. The only thing debateable is the extent of which humans are responsible for.
 

ohiofutballa

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The best thing that people can do that actually benefits EVERYONE is not to buy new vehicles, but to keep whatever they have and use it for as long as possible. But this is hardly realistic, as people will generally do things that are best for themselves before they care about others (I am guilty of this too).
That oil is gone, is not like because you drive your 10mpg Chevelle the day will be saved. Thats stupid, "stay with an old car so the 1 barrel of oil it used to be made, isnt wasted" when i could go and buy a 34 mpg civic, and save more than 1 barrel. That paragraph made no sense

Even if this were to happen, less oil means less food being produced, which means more people dying of starvation, which means no more over-population, thats one problem we dont have to worry about anymore...:cool:

See people like this guy will scare regular dumb people into believing this will happen.

DOES anyone remember Y2K?? the widespread panic, because of "scholars" thinking a problem wont be fixed. Relaxxxxxx.........
 

hongchang

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Well, i believe there's not much sense in panicking because we can't do much by ourselves, unless we seriously change out livestyles and forgo many of modern-day facilities.

What we can do is, live our lives to the best we can, and not worry about something we don't have complete knowledge of. I say that because u never know when one day, some group of scientists have come up with a way to solve the energy problem we have now. Facts have been "proven", then rebuked and then re-proven again; like the theory of relativity, if i'm not mistaken.

Personally, i believe the world is not so fragile, and life will always find a way out. Hence, what we can do is, be happy, and don't spread pessimism.
 

Bigsnake

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Originally posted by padrote
Actually Hybrid vehicles are capable of faster acceleration.

"During full throttle acceleration, the engine and the motor both drive the wheels, working together to provide acceleration and performance better than conventional vehicles."

http://www.visionengineer.com/env/hv.shtml
Actually, no...

The hybrids out right now are slow... I believe the Prius does 0 to 60 in 14 seconds... Get that down to 4 to 5 seconds and I'll be impressed.

Sure the gasoline and electric motors can power the wheels at the same time but that doesn't help too much. Electric motors right now are not powerfull. They need some new battery technology to supply more power or an increase in electric motor technology before you'll ever see neck snapping power. You could make up for the loss in a hybrid by sticking a bigger gasoline motor in there... but then you'll loose that all around gas mileage. You can see this in the Chevy Silvarado hybrid that has a V8 but only around 10% increase in gas mileage...

Plus hybrids will end up weighing more than a similarly equiped all gas vehicle.

Not knocking hybrids because I will probably end up owning one in the next few years as a commuter vehicle but I'll be keeping my truck for towing and hauling. I won't be expecting Cobra power out of it though.
 

Panda 2000

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Society is going to take a very different turn from what most people expect due to the exponential development of technology. In 20 years, computers will be as smart as humans, in 21 smarter and in 30 years way, way, way more intelligent on all levels. And that's just for starters. Society and humankind will change so much it's barely comprehendable today.
 

true|hockey

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global warming is a myth. Speculation is that the climate changes very slowly over time, and considering we did just have an ice age recently...

The greeks predicted the end of the world for the same reasons the poster listed above. They were wrong. I think people like to think about big drastic changes for the worst when in reality they wont happen. Science will find a way to generate energy without utilizing fossil fuels for combustion ( see fuel cell research grants and the like). People who think otherwise are simply uneducated, and uninformed.

in short, life in 30 years will probably be exactly like today. Better technology, the same stupid music, and people making posts on message boards about how in 30 years we will all be dead.
 

Luveno

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The main concern for the future isn't the environment, its the economy.

The reason being is that the US has an almost eight trillion dolllar debt, which is rising constantly. Eventually, world investors and lenders will see no economic benefit lending money to the US, and we will witness the greatest economic crash of all time. Remember Russia at the turn of the century? Look at them now.
That's what will happen.

Of course, since the US has powerful economic ties to the developed world, their fiscal disaster will be everyone's fiscal disaster. Canada, Britain...basically all of the powerful western nations will be bankrupt and derelict.

Additionally, with rising economic power of China and India, as well as their increasing population, the economic future of the USA is looking bleaker every minute.
 

SexPDX

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Originally posted by Luveno
The main concern for the future isn't the environment, its the economy.

The reason being is that the US has an almost eight trillion dolllar debt, which is rising constantly. Eventually, world investors and lenders will see no economic benefit lending money to the US, and we will witness the greatest economic crash of all time. .
I have the same fear. However, maybe the debt really isn't leading to a crash. There is a reason I mention this.

I can't help but notice that the political party most responsible for deficit spending is also interested in degregualtion of the securities markets, reduced spending on anti-trust law enforcement, as well as other forms of deregulation of business. Instead of attepmting to dismantle what regulation is in place now, which would stir up a resistence which would never be lowered, maybe their plan is to force us into so much debt that we can no longer afford to enforce anything.

Just a thought.

-PDX
 

nibun

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Originally posted by ohiofutballa
why worry? seriously?
That's what I'm saying, WE shouldn't worry, at least not for ourselves. The current generation (20's - 40's) will still be able to live fairly comfortably. There's enough oil to support us. But, the decline in overall quality of life is beginning. It's the next generation that's going to bear the brunt of the fall, when oil eventually runs out in 30-40 years (and that's from the OPTIMISTS in this debate).

So if I had to pick out a "moral" from this thread, it would be:

DON'T HAVE KIDS!!!

I happen to like kids, but it would be unethical to subject them to a dysfunctional world. Just do everything you want to do so you wouldn't have any regrets when the all the commidities we take granted for in our current society evaporate.

Carpe Diem
 

AmazingTricks

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They didn't use much oil in the stone age.
Global Warming can be avoided too. Biodome anybody?
 

Alpine

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Hey Chicken licken,

I used to worry a lot about things, and then I realised certain things are just beyond my control.

If you feel that concerned about the environment and the future why not get a job with Green peace or something, then, rather than worrying, you'd be doing something about it.

In any case, there will be a world plague soon that will kill 2/3rds of the planets population, so I wouldn't worry too much about global warming.
 

comic_relief

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Originally posted by Alpine

In any case, there will be a world plague soon that will kill 2/3rds of the planets population, so I wouldn't worry too much about global warming.
where do you get that idea?
 

Alpine

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Well I think it was a plague, or was it something about a meteorite, or it could have been a volcano in Yellowstone, something like that anyway.:rolleyes:
 

nibun

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damn... I had to pay $2.89/gal for gas to day. Forget my prediction from a few days ago that gas prices will be $5 by summer 2007. Try late 2006.
 
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