Limit biceps while working lats

[manuva]

Posterior deltoids and latissimus dorsi are both activated when squeezing shoulders back and opening chest out. Try it.

 

[Heizen]

Originally posted by manuva
No. It isn't fine. Maybe I didn't put enough muscle names in my post.

Proper technique includes chest out AND SHOULDERS HELD FIRMLY BACK.

Deadlifting to PROPER TECHNIQUE (see above sentence) will work lats... I mean latissimus dorsi.

There, is that a fancy enough word to be taken seriously?

Whoa now chief, chill.

I was referring to sweet cheeks, who decided to change the human skeletal muscles by saying that the lats pull the back erect and not the spinae erectors.

it IS the lats that are the PRIMARY muscles that extend the back

WHICH is why I said that lats are attached to the shoulders and the ribs, and have no large effect on the extending or erecting of the back

Keeping your back arched IS correct, it is the way I lift and the way I was taught by people who lift a LOT more weight then me and know their ****. Doing trap bar deads you need to keep your shoulders back, but in straight bar if you want to reduce the ROM while keeping yourself efficient ala PL'ers, you let your shoulders fall forward a little bit. You CAN keep your back tight and your shoulders without pulling them back, and I didn't say relax your shoulders.

I'd like to point out, you didn't say jack except agree with sweet cheeks. Hence you DIDN'T say any muscles, and you completetly misread my post so you could start a stupid pissing contest about deadlifting. Oh wait, you said lats. My bad! You said one muscle then. Actually I was referring to you as one of the people agreeing with him simply because he said some muscle names and sounded like he knew his stuff. So you weren't too far off buddy, but try again

Deltoids have 3 parts. 1 part pulls towards the body, and another pushes away. Thats why you can do DB flies for your front deltoid (Or your delt-pec tie in) and reverse flies for the back deltoids. They are 3 sets of muscles capable of 3 different movements.

 

[Lifeforce]

Originally posted by manuva
No. It isn't fine. Maybe I didn't put enough muscle names in my post.

Proper technique includes chest out AND SHOULDERS HELD FIRMLY BACK.

Deadlifting to PROPER TECHNIQUE (see above sentence) will work lats... I mean latissimus dorsi.

There, is that a fancy enough word to be taken seriously?

Proper technique doesn't include holding the shoulder blades together. You get a longer range of motion this way.

 

[manuva]

I never tried to start a pissing contest. I keep my references to anatomy very simple when I post here so that people can understand what I'm saying.

Originally posted by Heizen

Keeping your back arched IS correct

I never denied this.

it is the way I lift and the way I was taught by people who lift a LOT more weight then me and know their ****.

This alone is no measure of expertise. I see guys in power lifting gyms lifting huge weight with poor and ever dangerous technique.
This is one of the biggest mistakes people make in gyms, and is the reason such poor lifting techniques perpetuate. People see bigger guys lifting a certain way and decide it must be better. Often its not.

if you want to reduce the ROM while keeping yourself efficient ala PL'ers, you let your shoulders fall forward a little bit.

I am familiar with the way powerlifters lift. I train two PL's, one of whom DL's 260kg (580lbs) for 8 reps. Not bad for a 44 yr old guy. Both of them work to keep their shoulders back during the lift to help stick their chest out. Both have massive lats.

I train the same way, my lats get well fired too.

I didn't say relax your shoulders.

You said its ok to roll them forward. It's not. It's poor technique, will develop poor posture, and won't activate many of the muscles in your back that become activated. For the record those include the supraspinatus, infraspinatus, rhomboid major and minor, latissimus dorsi, and to a lesser extent teres major & minor and trapezius activation.

I'd like to point out, you didn't say jack except agree with sweet cheeks. Hence you DIDN'T say any muscles, and you completetly misread my post so you could start a stupid pissing contest about deadlifting. Oh wait, you said lats. My bad! You said one muscle then.

Thats quite childish. And, aside from the sarcasm, I'm not sure what point you're trying to convey.

As I mentioned above, I don't use complex names much when I post here so that all may understand. If it strokes your ego to tell the world that you know some fancy names, good for you. You're obviously a very special boy.

Personally, I lack that same insecure need for validation, so I am content to write things simply so the masses can keep up.

My previous post, the one that seems to have struck a nerve with you, was tongue in cheek and not meant to start a pissing contest. Posting on this site largely bores me but I don't want newbie lifters walking away with bad advice, so sometimes - often - I post to clear things up or point out bad advice so nobody does themselves a mischief.

I think the tone of your post suggests insecurity on your part, not ignorance on mine.

Actually I was referring to you as one of the people agreeing with him simply because he said some muscle names and sounded like he knew his stuff. So you weren't too far off buddy, but try again

Like I said, posting here bores me. I have a life. I get paid a lot of money to tell people this stuff for real, so I seldom bother spending any great amount of time posting here for free. I agreed with the advice he gave, even if some of the content wasn't entirely accurate. I have neither the time nor inclination to correct every single mistake people write in this forum, otherwise I'd be here all day every day. There is a lot of poor advice and misinformation in this thread alone (including inaccuracies of your own), let alone the dozens of others.

The general content of Sweetcheeks post was a little off in places, but his advice was sound. It's easier to refer people to his post knowing they will get good results than it is to write an extensive new post and say largely the same thing.

So, to conclude, get off my back. I didn't start any pissing contest. You did. Some of what you said was inaccurate. Get over it. Learn from it instead of trying to avoid the spotlight by finding fault with others.

 

[MetalFortress]

Originally posted by manuva
No. It isn't fine. Maybe I didn't put enough muscle names in my post.

Proper technique includes chest out AND SHOULDERS HELD FIRMLY BACK.

Deadlifting to PROPER TECHNIQUE (see above sentence) will work lats... I mean latissimus dorsi.

There, is that a fancy enough word to be taken seriously?

That makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, that way of deadlifting sounds better for bodybuilding, but for powerlifting, why would you want to do something that makes it HARDER to lift more weight? That's like saying that all powerlifters should do olympic style ass-to-grass squats. Different purposes, different sports. I'd even be concerned about the safety of your way of doing things.

I've NEVER gotten a hard lat workout from deadlifting. It's always either chin-ups or front squats that thrash my lats. Your lats pull your arms into your body - not extend your lower back.

All you have done is say "I'm right because I say I am, and I'll flame you until you agree with me". Want to give references? I have one: deadlift expert Pavel Tsatsouline, writer of the book Power To The People. He agrees with keeping your lower back arched and your shoulders rounded. The website where you can find his book is www.dragondoor.com. You can't just say "I do this for a living" because a LOT of trainers make a living off of giving people bad advice. You post some references/writers of your own, and I'll consider listening to your advice. For now, the experts agree with everyone else except you and Sweetcheeks.

And if posting here bores you, leave. You aren't the only one here who can give accurate advice (and even that part is questionable on your part), so don't be arrogant.

 

[brucevangeorge]

Originally posted by MetalFortress
Your lats pull your arms into your body - not extend your lower back.

Dont the spinal erectors extend the back? Hence the name erectors. To erect? To straighten?

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by Lifeforce
Deadlifts are only good to give size to the erectors IMO.

Damn need to get back to the studies.

deadlifts work the whole body, ESPECIALLY the back.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by manuva
No. It isn't fine. Maybe I didn't put enough muscle names in my post.

Proper technique includes chest out AND SHOULDERS HELD FIRMLY BACK.

Deadlifting to PROPER TECHNIQUE (see above sentence) will work lats... I mean latissimus dorsi.

There, is that a fancy enough word to be taken seriously?

you are right and he is wrong, since when is lettign the shoulders roll forward a good form for deadlifts?
it isn't

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by MetalFortress
You can't just say "I do this for a living" because a LOT of trainers make a living off of giving people bad advice. You post some references/writers of your own,

how would a writer be prevented from giving bad a advice in some text compared to a trainer, your own logic makes the use of references irrelevant

 

[manuva]

Thanks RawBlood. I agree.

It's true powerlifters use different techniques. Hower, holding your shoulders back in deadlifts is what helps provide the amazing upper back workout, and increases overall back strength. It's reasonable to assume most powerlifters welcome an increase in strength.

Anyway, thats not really what I'm arguing.

The title of the thread was how to minimise bicep activation while working lats, and deadlifting with shoulders held firmly as discussed is an excellent way of doing exactly that whether you're a casual lifter or a power lifter.

 

[RaWBLooD]

damn right about straps, you will surely impede your progress if you think forearms are gonna be able to hold the kind of weight you can handle on deadlifts and shrugs for more than 1 or 2 reps.

 

[MetalFortress]

Originally posted by RaWBLooD
how would a writer be prevented from giving bad a advice in some text compared to a trainer, your own logic makes the use of references irrelevant

Rawblood, do you want to prove to us that you actually lift first?? Pavel obviously IS a trainer, who ALSO writes books. He's far bigger than just a run of the mill gym trainer, and if you would go to the website and read, you would notice that. Think about it.

 

[MetalFortress]

Originally posted by brucevangeorge
Dont the spinal erectors extend the back? Hence the name erectors. To erect? To straighten?

Well yeah, that's what I was getting at. I said the lats are what doesn't extend the back.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by MetalFortress
Rawblood, do you want to prove to us that you actually lift first?? Pavel obviously IS a trainer, who ALSO writes books. He's far bigger than just a run of the mill gym trainer, and if you would go to the website and read, you would notice that. Think about it.

i dont lift or know anyone that lifts on or offline

what you said was basically that you cant prove a reference true or false, thus making the rest of your post contradictory, should i rephrase it again?

 

[MetalFortress]

And you can prove a reference true or false? No. You can't even provide references.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by MetalFortress
And you can prove a reference true or false? No. You can't even provide references.

please take to pm's ill be glad to discuss
thank you.
or if u like public make it in anything else, no further in health and fitness, thank you.

 

[MetalFortress]

Heh, talkin' like you're in charge. Nice try, kid, but you're a keyboard coach. Leave the training advice to people who train, and go troll some other forum.

 

[Lifeforce]

Originally posted by RaWBLooD
you are right and he is wrong, since when is lettign the shoulders roll forward a good form for deadlifts?
it isn't

It's used when to give you some extra length of your arms so you can begin the lift at a higher point. Try yourself and see. Roll the shoulders forward a little and see where the arms end up.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by Lifeforce
It's used when to give you some extra length of your arms so you can begin the lift at a higher point. Try yourself and see. Roll the shoulders forward a little and see where the arms end up.

it is improper form, pins and a power rack are used to "begin the lift at a higher point"

 

[Lifeforce]

Originally posted by RaWBLooD
deadlifts work the whole body, ESPECIALLY the back.

In my case that is not true, I've noticed growth in traps and erectors, very little lat improvement before I started being very serious about the lat training. Allthough it's such a heavy weight so you are correct it works the entire body in some way.