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Lack of fathers make beta males? I call BS

Knight of Roses

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I follow several redpill and Beta2alpha instagram accounts. Growing theme among them is they say that men who grow up without strong father figures become beta males.

I’m calling BS on that. As someone who grew up with a weak fatherly presence I take that statement as especially untrue. I’m doing better financially and slaying considerably more poon than my friends who had strong relationships with their fathers.

Also, our prisons are filled with alpha men who grew up without fathers. Their choices aren’t wise but I certainly wouldn’t call drug dealers and violent felons as betas.

what do y’all think about this?
 

Serenity

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It's one cause. It's not the only cause.
If there even is a correlation of any significance. Red pill preachers have a tendency to pull assumptions that fit their world view out of their a$$es, based on nothing more than "it makes sense to me" which is a fairly weak argument without substance.
 

Mike32ct

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It’s not so simple. Some of it is genetic.

Also, you can have an extremely “alpha” father who is abusive or borderline abusive (even verbally). And then one of his sons swears off masculinity/macho-ness as evil. The kid overcompensates for this father and ends up going to the other extreme: too soft/beta.
 
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Bokanovsky

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I follow several redpill and Beta2alpha instagram accounts. Growing theme among them is they say that men who grow up without strong father figures become beta males.

I’m calling BS on that. As someone who grew up with a weak fatherly presence I take that statement as especially untrue. I’m doing better financially and slaying considerably more poon than my friends who had strong relationships with their fathers.

Also, our prisons are filled with alpha men who grew up without fathers. Their choices aren’t wise but I certainly wouldn’t call drug dealers and violent felons as betas.

what do y’all think about this?
Your post is a perfect illustration of why the whole alpha-beta dichotomy is so unhelpful. You have given three disparate, potentially contradictory characteristics of what you consider an alpha male: financial security, slaying poon and being a violent felon.

Are there men who do well financially but struggle with women? Yes, there are plenty of them. Are they alpha or beta? What about a smooth-talking casanova who is good at getting into women's panties but works a crappy minimum wage job and can barely afford rent on his roach-infested apartment? Alpha or beta? And how about those incarcerated felons? They may excel at shanking their fellow inmates but they are certainly not slaying any poon or making bank while behind bars. Is it "alpha" to live like a caged animal, watching your life pointlessly go by?
 
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SW15

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One of the biggest problems with a subset of Millennial men is that they had beta male Boomer fathers as examples when their parents stayed together. During the Boomer generation, a beta male was worth more in the sexual marketplace than what the Millennials have experienced. So Millennial men who held their beta fathers as examples have received quite the rude awakening in the sexual marketplace of the 2000s.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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I follow several redpill and Beta2alpha instagram accounts. Growing theme among them is they say that men who grow up without strong father figures become beta males.

I’m calling BS on that. As someone who grew up with a weak fatherly presence I take that statement as especially untrue. I’m doing better financially and slaying considerably more poon than my friends who had strong relationships with their fathers.

Also, our prisons are filled with alpha men who grew up without fathers. Their choices aren’t wise but I certainly wouldn’t call drug dealers and violent felons as betas.

what do y’all think about this?
Red pill is mostly married dorks and house husband's on tangents with no receipts. The lack thereof MASCULINITY is evident in the group think, removal of father's in homes or father's who are beta pieces of furniture. The culture is cowardice. Some countries men are hiding in their homes because their government won't let them. I blame low T.

Yes. The men in prison maybe slphas without father's. More accurately they are emotional and raised by single mom's.

Knight mate, entertain ideas. Sift through everything and TEST out everything. Discard what doesn't work. It's evident that women are running a muck and guys are standing down. In part more fellas are checking out and enjoyingthe decline. I am watchingthe world burn and planning to pull the chute. The state removes the father from homes. The state has pedaled feminism and all this rubbish in society. The gender was is set off by the state. Its purely intentional to create division. I'm not here to save anybody or sny girl. The promo for body positivity and proud single mom's. Stfu. Wear your little mask and get injected with God knows what like the good little sheep.

There's only 1 enemy. Any obstacles in the way of individual sovereignty is the enemy. The destruction of the nuclear family. It's sll been purposeful.
 

Plinco

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One way to look at it is a mindset. "Alphas" = abundance of sexual options, "betas" = scarcity of sexual options.

These concepts are not completely accurate in predicting human behavior. This is one of the ways that the redpill community thinks itself into a box.
 
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One way to look at it is a mindset. "Alphas" = abundance of sexual options, "betas" = scarcity of sexual options.

These concepts are not completely accurate in predicting human behavior. This is one of the ways that the redpill community thinks itself into a box.
were talking about marriage and being a father here. An abundance of sexual options is detrimental to this.
 

sangheilios

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One of the biggest problems with a subset of Millennial men is that they had beta male Boomer fathers as examples when their parents stayed together. During the Boomer generation, a beta male was worth more in the sexual marketplace than what the Millennials have experienced. So Millennial men who held their beta fathers as examples have received quite the rude awakening in the sexual marketplace of the 2000s.
I can cite many examples of married with children boomer males that in today's market would have 0 chance of this ever happening and instead would be complete incels. The boomer generation doesn't realize this, but if you got an education or some sort of career training/skill and showed up to a steady job you could live a comfortable life. In today's world you have to be really on top of your game to get by, let alone be comfortable/successful. In regards to dating, I feel it's a similar set of standards where you need to be really on top of your game and have a lot going for you just to be considered at all for even an average woman. If you live an average life of just getting by and are physically average, or perhaps below as many men are, you are going to struggle. It's not a good time to be a man in our society but I have the feeling this will weed out the weak and favor the strong.
 

sangheilios

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@Knight of Roses

Something I can add to this is based upon some observations of mine. I've noticed that many women who end up single mothers often reproduced with men that would be considered "bad boys", where they do what they want and have no sense of responsibility towards anything in life. I feel that the women have this internal but unconscious process where they try to mold their male children into being a man that THEY wanted in that given set of circumstances, one that is highly responsible, puts family first, etc. The problem is that these women most likely came across men like this when they were childless but did not find them attractive and readily overlooked them but instead were more attracted to these "bad boys" that would ultimately pump and dump them without a second thought. What ends up happening is you have a young male who has been molded to more or less behave in a way that is unattractive to these types of women. Granted, not all women are like this but enough of them are where this will be an issue.
 

Who Dares Win

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Rather than talking about alphas/betas I would talk about winners and losers so we can somehow avoid the fact it gets hard to put in a group guys that get laid but are dumb and poor or that run big businesses but cant get laid even if their lives would depend on it.

I believe that the RIGHT father figure (I say right, not strong, not powerful and I will explain why) makes a hell of a difference especially in the upbringing of a kid earlie and a young man later.

A STABLE peaceful patient father will do for a kid much more than a wealthy dominant father that doesnt let him breath or bosses him around, a kid to proper grow needs peace and support at home before anything else....peace and support disappear when there are unstable father or weak father that let the women run the show since women tend to become overcontrolling over men by default.

The right father also allow his son to express himself and let him follow his path wheter its aiming to join the wrestling team at school or buy that computer to start programming.

The dominant guy that fvcks hotties but cant hold his rage when provoked is the result of a disfunctional family as much as the timid guy who doesnt have the courage to ask for a raise at work.

Needless to say that genetics plays a huge part as usual in both terms of performances, attitudes and looks.

I cant talk about my case where while I was living with my crappy family I as out of shape, socially incompetant and failing basically everything I did while many of my friends with supporting families were making all the right moves both at school and socially.

Few years later when we were on our own the things flipped, I was banging hotties around europe while they were walking at the shopping centres holding bags for their annoying gfs...I was bossing my boss around while they were wage slaving till night.

Im pretty sure that if I had a decent family I would be in a much better shape (since your diet and activities as kid shape you) and surely in a much better mental state.
 

SW15

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I can cite many examples of married with children boomer males that in today's market would have 0 chance of this ever happening and instead would be complete incels.
I can cite Boomer examples of this as well. They might not have been incels, but they would have experienced significantly longer sexual droughts. You might be able to extend that into the early part of Gen X. Gen X was a transitional generation. The bad stuff that really got exposed in the Millennial generation had its roots in Gen X. However, because Gen X was a smaller group, it didn't get noticed too much until the Millennials came of age and also the passage of time accentuated some negative trends.

The boomer generation doesn't realize this, but if you got an education or some sort of career training/skill and showed up to a steady job you could live a comfortable life. In today's world you have to be really on top of your game to get by, let alone be comfortable/successful.
The Boomer generation in the USA succeed more because the rest of the world was in shambles for 20-25 years after the end of World War 2. Japan started to turn the corner around 1970. The 1970s and 1980s were kind to Japan until the Nikkei crashed in 1989. China started to become economically more prosperous around the 1980s.

Boomer women in the USA were the last women that weren't entirely career oriented women. Women started showing up in the workforce more with the Silent Generation (late 1920s-1945 births). If you ever watched "Mad Men", Peggy Olson was a good example of this. Her character was born in 1939 and she became more careerist as she advanced at the ad agency. A Peggy Olson was somewhat out of the norm in the 1960s but women graduating college in the 1980s (late Boomers and early Gen X'ers) would have adopted the spirit of her fictional character that was rooted in some degree of reality.

When I was college from 2001-02 to 2004-05, it seemed like the prevailing expectation among my young women undergrad classmates was career development. These women expected to have a career as a result of getting a bachelor's degree. I would guess that most wanted motherhood at some point but they were expecting to be working mothers. The last sentence would only be true if they thought about the concept of motherhood at some point in their 18-22 year old existences.

In regards to dating, I feel it's a similar set of standards where you need to be really on top of your game and have a lot going for you just to be considered at all for even an average woman. If you live an average life of just getting by and are physically average, or perhaps below as many men are, you are going to struggle. It's not a good time to be a man in our society
The threshold of what it takes to attract and retain women has gone up. Having an income in the 70th percentile of income earners would have been a ticket to attracting and retaining solid women in 1980. In the 21st Century, the 70th percentile income earner (if he's a male) has no guarantee of consistent attraction and retention. Part of this is due to more women being in the workforce and having higher expectations of men. Suddenly, your above average salary as a man isn't all that impressive when her salary is nearly the same.

I've noticed that many women who end up single mothers often reproduced with men that would be considered "bad boys", where they do what they want and have no sense of responsibility towards anything in life. I feel that the women have this internal but unconscious process where they try to mold their male children into being a man that THEY wanted in that given set of circumstances, one that is highly responsible, puts family first, etc.
I agree with every observation here.

The problem is that these women most likely came across men like this when they were childless but did not find them attractive and readily overlooked them but instead were more attracted to these "bad boys" that would ultimately pump and dump them without a second thought. What ends up happening is you have a young male who has been molded to more or less behave in a way that is unattractive to these types of women.
These types of mothers are harmful to young boys. With absent or weak fathers, this parental programming becomes harmful. This is typical female stuff. What women say that they want and what they actual respond to in terms of attraction are completely different.
 

Scars

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Actually, psychology shows that men who grew up without fathers are actually more violent and aggressive. Mainly because there was no real male remodel to "put them in their place" when they acted out. Some of the most aggressive and confrontational people I know are men who grew up with single moms or grandparents.
 

hardboiled85

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I follow several redpill and Beta2alpha instagram accounts. Growing theme among them is they say that men who grow up without strong father figures become beta males.

I’m calling BS on that. As someone who grew up with a weak fatherly presence I take that statement as especially untrue. I’m doing better financially and slaying considerably more poon than my friends who had strong relationships with their fathers.

Also, our prisons are filled with alpha men who grew up without fathers. Their choices aren’t wise but I certainly wouldn’t call drug dealers and violent felons as betas.

what do y’all think about this?
Having good financials and ****ing some women ('more than friends'/generation), does not = alpha male.
 

Barrister

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Being “alpha” really at it’s heart boils down to having a sphere of influence where a man is able to influence and even lead other men (and women). This is accomplished through financial resources and social adroitness generally speaking - but certainly is not limited to just those. Women are naturally attracted to this type of man and hence any being “alpha” is often seen as such a great trait to have in the pickup community.

Understanding “game” does not make one alpha. The two have some overlap.
 

SW15

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Having good financials and ****ing some women ('more than friends'/generation), does not = alpha male.
A lot of STEM workers have good financials and are either incel or simping betas struggling to get laid.
 
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