Just learned that a friend will be divorcing his wife of 16 years

[Interceptor]

YES, I've seen it.

It is doable.

And there ARE Women out there who do see things that way.


Here's something that maybe you're not seeing.

First, we are talking about potential LIFE Partners, basically the criteria for a WIFE for a SUCCESSFUL marriage.

Are you sure you're understanding this?

These are the criteria necesary for bothe men and women to SUCEED.

Second, just because you haven't seen it, or you don't BELIEVE it, or don't think that woman can do it, or have never experienced or observed it shoud NOT STOP YOU FROM EXPECTING it.

Basically, this is what I'm saying....

If you MARRY ANYWAY, and the woman you chose does not fulfill the suggested criteria, then YOU ARE SETTLING.

Here's something else...if you are unhappy alone, you will still be unhappy with companionship.
And more importantly, being single and HAPPY is BETTER than being MARRIED and MISERABLE.


Did I say that all women are highly evolved spiritually, emotionally, psychologically etc? And women like these are quite common?
No.
What does that say?
It means be prepared to screen the women you are involved with if your intention is marriage. If they do not view life this way then you are gambling, if you STILL INTEND to marry them then you are SETTLING...and if it fails I WILL SAY " I TOLD YOU SO."

Your post sounds pessimistic. You sound like you have given up.
Your "reality" is this way, because you no longer have hope or faith.
But maybe you don't realzie that you can control what is inside of you, how you feel, think, etc...

If you control what comes into your life, and can control your emotions, have strong personal boundaries, and have a positive outlook, you wouldn't think the way you are thinking.
Now, think again at how empowered you are now that you know how to screen women who you may want as a life partner.
Are these women going to get you? Are they going to get to you?

Yeah?

How so?

Only if you let them.

No?

Good. That means they can't make you do anything you know is wrong and not good for you.

 

[LovelyLady]

:crackup:
xoxoLL

(runs warm water for a bubble bath..............-POP!-opens a bottle of Champagne........ opens a box of chocolates....)

Smooches, Honey... You are too good to me! I am off to make a Greek feast for you giggle...

 

[aliasguy]

YES, I've seen it.

It is doable.

And there ARE Women out there who do see things that way.


Here's something that maybe you're not seeing.

First, we are talking about potential LIFE Partners, basically the criteria for a WIFE for a SUCCESSFUL marriage.

Are you sure you're understanding this?

These are the criteria necesary for bothe men and women to SUCEED.

Second, just because you haven't seen it, or you don't BELIEVE it, or don't think that woman can do it, or have never experienced or observed it shoud NOT STOP YOU FROM EXPECTING it.

Basically, this is what I'm saying....

If you MARRY ANYWAY, and the woman you chose does not fulfill the suggested criteria, then YOU ARE SETTLING.

Here's something else...if you are unhappy alone, you will still be unhappy with companionship.
And more importantly, being single and HAPPY is BETTER than being MARRIED and MISERABLE.


Did I say that all women are highly evolved spiritually, emotionally, psychologically etc? And women like these are quite common?
No.
What does that say?
It means be prepared to screen the women you are involved with if your intention is marriage. If they do not view life this way then you are gambling, if you STILL INTEND to marry them then you are SETTLING...and if it fails I WILL SAY " I TOLD YOU SO."

Your post sounds pessimistic. You sound like you have given up.
Your "reality" is this way, because you no longer have hope or faith.
But maybe you don't realzie that you can control what is inside of you, how you feel, think, etc...

If you control what comes into your life, and can control your emotions, have strong personal boundaries, and have a positive outlook, you wouldn't think the way you are thinking.
Now, think again at how empowered you are now that you know how to screen women who you may want as a life partner.
Are these women going to get you? Are they going to get to you?

Yeah?

How so?

Only if you let them.

No?

Good. That means they can't make you do anything you know is wrong and not good for you.

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I agree with you, man. we should seek solid, stable women who have the characteristics you describe for our LTRs and marriages.

And, no, you didn't say ALL women are "highly evolved." And i get your point. I agree that we have to screen carefully.

I'm not gonna "marry anyway," and I'm not "unhappy" alone. (Though I'm not often "alone," anyway, even though I'm not in a LTR at present.)



I really do understand what you are saying, and I agree with the PRINCIPLE, I'm just saying that FINDING one of the women you describe, who HAVE those good qualities, is trickier than one might think.


I AM pessimistic. And, have I "given up"? Well, it depends on how you define your terms. I've not "given up" on women in general. I like them, I see them socially, I f*ck them, but I just don't EXPECT much from them. I certainly don't expect them to be the enlightened creatures that you describe that they CAN be.

I know that that some small number of them can be a member of that rare order, but I don't expect it. I expect that almost all AREN'T, and if your experience is different, then I'd say you've been lucky.


I understand what you say about "empowerment," and "outlook," and "screening for... a life partner." I do, and I agree.


And women AREN'T going to "get" to me, mainly because I'm not going to have unrealistic expectations from them. I'm going to enjoy them, and have fun with them, and accept them for who they ARE........

WOMEN.


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[Interceptor]

I really do understand what you are saying, and I agree with the PRINCIPLE, I'm just saying that FINDING one of the women you describe, who HAVE those good qualities, is trickier than one might think.

It is tricky.

But make yourSELF happy first.
Work on creating the life you desire.
Work on attracting the positive people, Places, and Things into your life.

have a Positive Outlook, and pre pave your future.

Faith comes from feeling that you have taken steps to ensure that the future will unfold as you envision it.

It can happen for you.

You need to WILL it to happen for you. This WILL Power has to be strong. Your DESIRE HAS to be strong. And you can have NO SELF DOUBT.



There is so much that I'm not saying here, because it is far out of the consciousness of many members here...

I only can say that it does NOT have to bleak if you really don't want it to be.


You have a LOT MORE CONTROL than you realize...

edit:

I'm going to enjoy them, and have fun with them, and accept them for who they ARE........

WOMEN.

This perhaps is the best thign ALL men can do. You will be surprised at how funny, girly, and sweet women can be when you look at them in this manner.
Even women will tell you they don't always want to be looked on as Godesses.
Why?
Because they reailze as hard as they may try they are NOT perfect. And feel too much pressure to live up to a standard of a Goddess.
But you don't HAVE to treat her like a Goddess.
But you do have to enjoy your interactions with women. You have a right to do so.
So do they.
Now, are there women who are exceptional??

Yes. Absolutely.

Recognize their value and worth, and appreciate it.
the exceptional woman WILL APPRECIATE the Exceptional Man.
Be Exceptional.

 

[LovelyLady]

To communicate as both people grow and change is key. People often enter marriage with common interests and common goals and think this is enough. Or that physical attraction is enough.

The common goals vary: raising children, buying a home, getting one or both spouses through school, running a business, traveling are all examples.

When the goals are met, the marriage often ends.

I believe that a truly successful marriage is only possible if both partners agree that the purpose of their marriage is to co-create the most fabulous relationship of their lives. As a stated purpose. As a common goal.

They must define what that relationship looks like, together. Have clarity - and mutually make the effort to refine the definition as the years pass.

I believe a critical component of a successful marriage is when each partner is committed to supporting the other in being the best individual self that person can be. That means holding each other accountable to that agreed upon and defined purpose.

Sometimes it is confronting, sometimes it is encouraging - but it is always done from a genuine place of love and desire for your partner to become grow whole and complete as the individual self.

This serves the purpose of the marriage/primary relationship - with both people genuinely living at their fullest capacity of production on all levels, bringing their best selves to their partner, being accepted and encouraged with love when the mark is missed, being with someone who expects you to be your best self - recognizes and appreciates this integrity in you and in the relationship.

A great book that covers this with better clarity than I can express it is called The Seven Levels of Intimacy by Matthew Kelly

 

[aliasguy]

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Ok, man, I think we really don't disagree as much as it might seem.

But, there's this Buddhist-like faction that preaches "No desire." And you say "desire" IS important. I don't think EITHER is correct.

You're talking to me as if I'm unhappy with women. I'm NOT. Things are better for me with women now than in any other period of my life. I LIKE the way things are with me and women now. I'm not "SEEKING" anything.


FAITH, POWER, DESIRE...... I really don't care about all that anymore. I'm having a nice time. I'm enjoying women. I just don't EXPECT anything from them. And I don't want to. And I don't think that this is "bleak" at ALL. It's just realistic. I'm happy with the way things ARE, at LAST.


What do you MEAN, "It can happen for you."? That sounds like chickspeak!!

WHAT can happen? "TRUE LOVE"????


I LIKE this way of seeing things. I LIKE the women in my life. Everything is ok. I don't want or expect MORE. All's well. It ISN'T bleak. I don't WANT to CONTROL anything. I just wanna live my life. And I am. And I like it.

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[Interceptor]

Sounds great, Alias.
I'm glad. Truly.


edit
I just wanted to add that I wan't really writing it aimed really at you , Alias.

Just wanted to clear that up.
The "you" I use, is often just a figurative position.

So there might have been a mixing of message to you and anyone reading it, from a personal level.

Glad you're happy, and all's well.

That is awesome.

 

[aliasguy]

Sounds great, Alias.
I'm glad. Truly.


edit
I just wanted to add that I wan't really writing it aimed really at you , Alias.

Just wanted to clear that up.
The "you" I use, is often just a figurative position.

So there might have been a mixing of message to you and anyone reading it, from a personal level.

Glad you're happy, and all's well.

That is awesome.

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Nice exchange, Interceptor.

I accept your views, and I hope I'm understanding them clearly.

Thank you.

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[joekerr31]

I believe that a truly successful marriage is only possible if both partners agree that the purpose of their marriage is to co-create the most fabulous relationship of their lives. As a stated purpose. As a common goal.

who is this broad? I'm impressed! too bad wildfyre ain't around, it would have been good to see lovelylady and wyld go at it.

but anyway, i agree 100% what what you said LL.

or as i've often put it - the most important thing in a marriage is that the two people have roughly the same beliefs towards life.

see, it doesnt always have to be about bettering yourself. you could have two slobs where both the husband and wife just want to eat KFC and smoke themselves to death. that marriage WILL work out just fine.

what doesn't work is when one person lifestyles and beliefs diverge. when one person suddenly wants to get into shape and the other doesnt. when one suddenly finds jesus and the other remains an atheist, etc.

shared beliefs, I believe, are the biggest determinant in the long term viability of a marriage. after all, who are we other than what we believe in - our beliefs are who we are.

find a woman who sees the world similarly to you, who values the same things that you do (for instance honesty, empathy, etc.) and youll probably be just fine getting married.

marry some woman who you fight with all the time but who you love f*cking in the *ss and have been with so long that you figure you might as well get hitched and you'll be divorced within 10 years.

 

[aliasguy]

who is this broad? I'm impressed! too bad wildfyre ain't around, it would have been good to see lovelylady and wyld go at it.

but anyway, i agree 100% what what you said LL.

or as i've often put it - the most important thing in a marriage is that the two people have roughly the same beliefs towards life.

see, it doesnt always have to be about bettering yourself. you could have two slobs where both the husband and wife just want to eat KFC and smoke themselves to death. that marriage WILL work out just fine.

what doesn't work is when one person lifestyles and beliefs diverge. when one person suddenly wants to get into shape and the other doesnt. when one suddenly finds jesus and the other remains an atheist, etc.

shared beliefs, I believe, are the biggest determinant in the long term viability of a marriage. after all, who are we other than what we believe in - our beliefs are who we are.

find a woman who sees the world similarly to you, who values the same things that you do (for instance honesty, empathy, etc.) and youll probably be just fine getting married.

marry some woman who you fight with all the time but who you love f*cking in the *ss and have been with so long that you figure you might as well get hitched and you'll be divorced within 10 years.

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I believe that a good marriage requires that which joeker has described above. Those things are NECESSARY, but not SUFFICIENT, in my view.


All this stuff about VALUING things, and similar beliefs, and "seeing the world" in a given way sound GREAT.

Really, they DO.

KFC, and Jesus, and buttsex, et al., are irrelevant asides.

What matters is that a man UNDERSTAND that no matter WHAT, he can never be sure of what the hell is REALLY going on. All this "soulmate" stuff is B.S.



If you do this, and that and, the other, and select a woman who you SEE as this or that, and you'll "probably be just fine getting married." Do you REALLY view your "chances" in a marriage this way, man?

"Probably" isn't good enough, given the risk involved.


51% is "PROBABLY." Flip a coin. That's your likelihood of a divorce. I don't care HOW careful you are, you CANNOT "know" someone without being around them for SEVERAL YEARS.




And WHAT the hell is all this stuff on several threads about how wonderful this "lovelylady" is? Damn, it's like Venus herself has deigned to descend upon the SS forum. What a bunch of ass-kissing p*ssies we can be.


Maybe she IS wyldefire.


Jesus.


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[iqqi]

A man's value is judged primarily by his ability to protect and provide. A woman's value is judged primarily on her beauty and reproductive value.

Um... bullsh!t.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Um... bullsh!t.

I don't even need to type it . . .

 

[WaterTiger]

Originally Posted by STR8UP
A man's value is judged primarily by his ability to protect and provide. A woman's value is judged primarily on her beauty and reproductive value.

Um... bullsh!t.

Now Iqqi! You know he doesn't mean it in an absolute sense! There are a hundred other things by which to judge a man or woman's value.

Each list of values are diffrent for every person. Beauty, and the ability to have his babies ranks highest on Str8up's list.

 

[iqqi]

I didn't mean it to be so simple like that. I have never seen a woman marry a man because he could protect her, or even provide for her.

Likewise I have never seen a man marry a woman only because of her beauty, or the whether or not she could reproduce.

Most people who I witness marriages between, choose each other based on similar life goals, dreams, and experiences shared together.

In one case the man was puny and broke. Not at all a "protecter" or a "provider".

In another case, the chic's face is deformed.

I'm not talking LTR's here, I'm talking marriages.

This isn't prehistoric times, "values" aren't so simple.

 

[iqqi]

I also was impressed with Joekerrs debating here, and I fully agree with him. I think it is sad that a marriage is dissolved for a superficial reason, and I think the wife is lucky to have this thrown at her early enuf. She still has time to find real love.

At the same time, I agree with Lovelylady, and can imagine my dismay if I was married and my husband just put on the pounds. But if I loved him enough to marry him and have his children, then it was most likely something on the inside that made it that way, and I would consider his weight gain my problem too, not just his.

I value marriage more than most people I know, so I guess it isn't a big shocker, this situation. People just get married, like its a fad or something.

One more point. Whoever keeps bringing up the point that women initiate more divorces, seem to be conveniently blocking out the part that explains why. Such as men being more likely to gamble, cheat, drink, ect. This is usually contained in those same reports. I posted it once myself.

 

[ketostix]

Um... bullsh!t.

I hate iqqi. She is exactly what every self respecting guy is told to "next". On top of that she probbaly isn't very attractive.

 

[iqqi]

^^ There is a thin line between love and hate, my emotional boy.

On top of that she probbaly isn't very attractive.

Lol! This is going to be my next signature. Classic!

 

[jonwon]

One more point. Whoever keeps bringing up the point that women initiate more divorces, seem to be conveniently blocking out the part that explains why. Such as men being more likely to gamble, cheat, drink, ect. This is usually contained in those same reports. I posted it once myself.

MMmmm Iqqi, posts like this imo dont do you many favours on here.

Your Logical conclusion is so very flawed, so we blame men for all the divorces out there?

Sounds like some feminist ideal to me!

Have you been married?

Do you know anyone that is married.

Heard of no fault divorce or unreasonable behaviour?

It means exactly what the women wants it to mean, also women are encouraged to state certain things so they get a better deal in the divorce, you really do sound like a feminist brain washed usual typical girl.

If you want to go 1 on 1 over your really poor post there, i will be more then happy to.

Oh and sticking up for fat chubba wife, almost tells me you could probably be fat too, dont worry joker does not mind and will be more then happy to 'understand', pop a few kids out also and you have him for life

No offence joker

Regardless of your post, the western sphere is biased in favour of women in divorce, any moron can see that, except for feminist hags that is, are you one of them?

With statements like that i do wonder.

But i guess all the man that got raped in the courts, had there kids taken away deserved it, since men by habit are drunks, gamblers and abusers, RIGHT?

No i would rather think, women have been handed too much power to get out of a joke contract and are, in alot of cases encouraged to divorce, men are not.

And i'd like to see your statistics, i think it will be one of many reasons to avoid marriage, i expect it to be another verbal evidence 'unreasonable behaviour' type BS where by the women did not have to 'prove' anything and just stated she was with a 'gambler, or 'abuser' so she can get a bigger 'cut' out of divorce that favours 99% of the time a 'women'.

Such has men, being more of a cheater, gambler, drinker and abuser! Is this what you 'really' think?
Come on lets hear it iqqi!

 

[WaterTiger]

(( Pulls up a comfy chair to watch the fireworks ))

 

[iqqi]

Your Logical conclusion is so very flawed, so we blame men for all the divorces out there?

YES, Jonwon, ALL men are to be blamed for ALL the divorces out there. That is exactly what I said right? Good grief!

Most of what you wrote was hogwash that I merely skimmed. Such as that line there.

I just want to state that I did not write the statistics, do the research, or suggest the reasons. I just stated for the record, that many of these reports that other people are bringing up, also suggest why the numbers are the way they are. Thats it. Thats all. I am not making any stances on marriage or divorces, except that I think its mostly a joke for most cases.

MMmmm Iqqi, posts like this imo dont do you many favours on here.

Oh no! Whats a gal to do??