Isn't DayGame a lot easier if you're Chad-tier?

[Plinco]

Value :
Social intelligence
Leadership
Ability to get women to try and prove themselves to you/impress you
Fashion cues
Body language cues ( I would say this is the part we worked on the most . He had me go through drills for tonality, posture, eye contact, and even specific facial expressions.)
Emotional intelligence: recognizing specific emotions in the woman and giving them a proper response. For example the difference between a genuine smile and a "fake" smile tells you where the woman's mindset is at , and what to do next .
Mastering different forms of emotional commitment.

This is mostly on display with direct game. Give me an example of a conversation you had with a woman where you expressed added value to her. Post a sample of the conversation so that we can see an example of expressing value that wasn't already being expressed on the surface.

Your long term passive value : comes from your last experience with women, including relationships where you set the rules, past sexual experiences, and all the things women did for you in the past in the name of "love". The more you strategically add up on these experiences, the stronger your "vibe " becomes. After a while this allows you to break more rules. In my opinion this is true value .

In other words, self-esteem. Genuine self-esteem comes from accomplishments whereas seeking praise from women generates a momentary illusion. I mean, do you really need to have other people tell you how great you are, or should you be doing things that will convince you of that?

 

[MatureDJ]

Even this goes back to a prior point https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/what-happened-to-today-women.284338/#post-3163275

The vast majority of fellas we view as "Chads" in the present day DID NOT begin life as such. Even guys born with "pretty features" have to learn how to leverage those features + Work around their flaws

Neither Day nor Night game will bear much fruit, without self-development

But they were born with the genes.

 

[BaronOfHair]

But...

This addiction to concocting justifications makes the average meth head look like a paragon of sobriety

 

[frenchflow]

This is mostly on display with direct game. Give me an example of a conversation you had with a woman where you expressed added value to her. Post a sample of the conversation so that we can see an example of expressing value that wasn't already being expressed on the surface.



In other words, self-esteem. Genuine self-esteem comes from accomplishments whereas seeking praise from women generates a momentary illusion. I mean, do you really need to have other people tell you how great you are, or should you be doing things that will convince you of that?

This is the first issue with the community at the moment. You bring up something and the first instinct is to bring it back to old concepts and try to say it's the same thing. That's why we have been stagnating since 2010 and that's why I was struggling for those two years. No one wants to innovate on anything.

I don't know in what language I'm supposed to say it : the issue with direct game is that you create a wall in the woman , an I ternal resistance that you don't need to have there in the first place . It's not necessary to say to her " I like you" right from the opener. It adds nothing. In fact , now you are going to try and get her in spite of the gigantic mistake you made on the open.

Less experienced guys will see a polite reaction and think it works well when in reality the woman is grateful for your shot of validation, but it doesn't mean she suddenly wants to have sex with you .

Also show me any hardcore Direct gamer, I will show you someone who plays a huge numbers game. Let me guess: you are talking to 40 women to get a lay? And you probably think it's normal? Well it's not .

 

[frenchflow]

Also someone came to me in private , and this is what I told them. They were being cordial and not trying to antagonize me so I went a bit more into details. I will just copy paste it here because I really don't feel the urge to think again and go that in depth . Hope this helps you see things more clearly.

Thanks I appreciate your approach .
It's a lot to say but from what I have seen here are a few points of difference. And btw excuse my English If it's a bit flawed i was born and raised in France.

1. The opener:
The approach has to be "accidental".
The reasoning is simple: most persuasion processes are parallel to hypnosis in some way shape or form because hypnosis is the clear path to talking to someones subconscious.
So in the context of seduction taken as a hypnotic process, you need to start with distraction. Distraction means anything that seems normal and doesn't come out of the ordinary too strongly .
- fitting in the background before approaching
- body language that flows on the opener, nothing too abrupt or Intrusive
- subtle pattern interrupt especially if she's moving to go somewhere
- a narrative: a story that explains why you are talking to her, it has to be accidental.
- dealing with the elephant in the room : diffusing any psychological obstacle to her talking to you in the environment. Showing social intelligence.

This also matches the general subconscious feeling on romance and serendipity . Look at most romance novels or romance movies. It almost always starts with an "accident" and more times than not they don't even like each other at first . But then some external events force them to connect and they progressively fall for each other . My mentor is of the belief that you should catch her mind first , and then she will give you her body . "Love" or the beginning stages of it are a shortcut to that .

2. The human mating dance:

According to him he was struggling as a black guy trying to get into bed with Caucasian women, circa 2005-2006. He's been doing this for twenty years now but the methods he was trying to use at the time were not working for his situation. The guy has a background in marketing and statistics, so he went to his university professor and ask him to help him put together a sociological survey on how interracial couples get together. He added a twist: the girl had to look considerately more attractive than the guy .
Took him 2 years but by 2008-2009 he was putting together the first sketches of what would become the "Human mating dance " or human courtship . The reasoning is simple : every species on the planet has a process they go through in order to copulate. From insects to birds to mammals . He decided to observe the same process on humans (these couples). And by putting together a list of commonalities he was able to come up with a clear process with progressive steps from hello to sex. The idea is to take what would take our parents months to achieve in term of sexual connection and condense it into a couple of hours of interaction.

3. The idea of progression:

This one might be confusing because most of the systems that I have seen out there seem to be progressive. Progressive escalation, progressive locations, progressive dialogue and so on and so forth. But its superficial.

The strongest force on the human brain is not survival, it's the force of habit .

So if you are able somehow to get a woman used to act towards you in a similar way that she is used to act with guys she likes, she will effectively like you . You build up the symptoms and she will get the disease.

There are more aspects to it but I need to think about it .

 

[frenchflow]

Last point. It's not " self esteem". It's an aggregate of oriented experiences that will build up a sexual vibe . It's a planned process to readjust your experiences and mindset in a specific direction . Your mindset and non verbal cues then become like a fragrance , a vibe that follows you everywhere. In extreme cases you can have women start approaching you . A lot of guys that are considered "naturals" have this . They just went through a lot of sexually validating experiences so they walk around with that vibe .

Self esteem is neutral. Its not sexually charged . Plenty of guys with good self esteem and no women.

 

[Bokanovsky]

A lot of what you said Is not accurate. Feeling a bit lazy to go into all of the details but from what I can remember I will try :
1. As a salesman your job is to sell the car and you DO have to approach the customer. My point was : you should not be so obvious about it. NO salesman goes :" give me your money I'm here to take it, I don't care if you know my product is good or not, just give it to me". That's what you do when you're going direct . You didn't display any of your attractive qualities yet , but you request a sale.

It sounds link you are confusing directness with rudeness/stupidity. Most car salesmen do not try to hide the fact that they are trying to sell you a car. They will ask you what kind of car you are looking for, what you drive now, what your needs are, what your budget is. That's pretty direct. I'm yet to see a salesman try to sell a car by talking about politics, religion or the customer's relationship with his mother.

Speaking of sales and being obvious, you are a pretty poor salesman for your so-called "mentor". As someone else pointed out, your sales pitch is way too obvious.

 

[Clockwerk50]

To be honest, I'm far from an expert. And I'm not even sure to know how to socialize properly. But I do know how to approach a random woman and somehow convince her to go home and have sex with me in a few hours. Not sure if it's related to making friends but I doubt it . I'm still relatively socially awkward in that aspect.

Now , sorry if I came across as aggressive but I was just sharing my opinion ont the topic and I got ganged up on, just because I said direct game isn't efficient. Isn't that strange? Isn't that strange that in 2025 simply stating that direct game is not efficient on a forum makes you a target ?

And yeah I'm definitely that guy" nut hugger" if that's what you call it, the dude changed my life .

If there are more specific questions about the game in itself I don't t mind trying to answer them, but like I said I might struggle to break down these things properly I'm not the expert. I just apply stuff.

Claiming 8 lays a month while saying you’re bad at socializing, bad at getting inside social circles, and “not an expert” doesn’t add up. Eight a month is a lot, especially when you make it seem effortless and without context, which makes people naturally question whether the story is exaggerated or simplified.

If you’ve been on this board long enough, you’ve seen every kind of salesman - courses, books, YouTube channels, etc. Honestly, I wish it weren’t the case, since you do make some good points, but your story sounds just like the one a few years back about the guy playing middleman for a coach and his consultations.

 

[characternote]

Also show me any hardcore Direct gamer, I will show you someone who plays a huge numbers game.

As do INdirect gamers (mystery, gambler, Todd V etc etc)
Infields show quite nicely that they bang the girls who were clearly somewhat receptive and attracted on the opener. The girls who maybe thought 'eww. Too old and fat' or whatever never let them get too far.
It's a numbers game for EVERYONE!

 

[Plinco]

Last point. It's not " self esteem". It's an aggregate of oriented experiences that will build up a sexual vibe . It's a planned process to readjust your experiences and mindset in a specific direction . Your mindset and non verbal cues then become like a fragrance , a vibe that follows you everywhere. In extreme cases you can have women start approaching you . A lot of guys that are considered "naturals" have this . They just went through a lot of sexually validating experiences so they walk around with that vibe .

Self esteem is neutral. Its not sexually charged . Plenty of guys with good self esteem and no women.

I don't understand what you're saying here. If you cannot explain it logically then I question whether you know what you're talking about.

I asked you to post a conversation you have had using indirect game. You keep throwing out vague nonsense.

 

[frenchflow]

A lot of different reactions. Not feeling like addressing all of that .

To the guy doubting the 8 lays a month, it's all documented. I got the receipts. Like I said , not caring enough to lie about this **** .

Also if you're still playing a numbers game in 2025 I feel bad for you . I'm going to graciously exit this forum as rhisjis clearly not the place for me. It's filled with dogma that borders on stupidity.

For me proof comes first. And I said many times that I can provide the receipts. Idgaf about providing dialogues that I don't remember. Idgaf about pleasing a bunch of virtual mfers stuck in 2010 rsd methodology. I just don't care enough. Thought it would be cool and relaxing to discuss game with open minded people, it just turned into a circus. And then you wonder why the community is dying.

Matter of fact I don't think anyone here could add anything to my game since 8 lays a month seems like a huge feat for a lot of you . For the guys I know who do this stuff its regular.

Anyway, enjoy the mediocrity.

 

[Plinco]

A lot of different reactions. Not feeling like addressing all of that .

To the guy doubting the 8 lays a month, it's all documented. I got the receipts. Like I said , not caring enough to lie about this **** .

Also if you're still playing a numbers game in 2025 I feel bad for you . I'm going to graciously exit this forum as rhisjis clearly not the place for me. It's filled with dogma that borders on stupidity.

For me proof comes first. And I said many times that I can provide the receipts. Idgaf about providing dialogues that I don't remember. Idgaf about pleasing a bunch of virtual mfers stuck in 2010 rsd methodology. I just don't care enough. Thought it would be cool and relaxing to discuss game with open minded people, it just turned into a circus. And then you wonder why the community is dying.

Matter of fact I don't think anyone here could add anything to my game since 8 lays a month seems like a huge feat for a lot of you . For the guys I know who do this stuff its regular.

Anyway, enjoy the mediocrity.

You're the one spouting out dogma.

I asked you to post an example of a conversation you've had where you are using indirect game; not a difficult request.

 

[frenchflow]

That's kind of stupid. One I could be making anything up. Two it's not about the conversation content only, there are non verbals at play . For you to assume it's all about words shows your limitations.

For you to say " you're doing indirect" then immediately assume I do something similar to Todd, Mystery or whatnot is the dogmatic mindset. For you to say everyone plays a numbers game is dogmatic. I could try to explain what I do in depth here you will find something to criticise , because your mind is already made up. Which is dogmatic.

I don't feel like proving myself , especially not to a guy asking this way . But I will say this : I don't need to lie about this **** . I have the receipts. Once again for you to care about a fictional story that I could spit here more than actual proof of my results, is once again ... dogmatic.

You got this one. Think what you want I don't care . I'm out .

 

[Captain Redbeard]

For science, I DM'd the frenchman when he first appeared to see if I could learn more about his magical methods. Just like this thread, he wrote a mess of words and said nothing of actual substance. Then he suddenly had the great idea to put me in touch with this mythical mentor of his. When I pushed back about setting up a call with someone I could not verify at all, more platitudes and nonsense followed. For a man who supposedly has the receipts, none were procured. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

 

[characternote]

For science, I DM'd the frenchman when he first appeared to see if I could learn more about his magical methods. Just like this thread, he wrote a mess of words and said nothing of actual substance. Then he suddenly had the great idea to put me in touch with this mythical mentor of his. When I pushed back about setting up a call with someone I could not verify at all, more platitudes and nonsense followed. For a man who supposedly has the receipts, none were procured. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

what a surprise!!!

exactly what I said he was doing : - GRIFTING!!

There IS no 'ugly ninja turtle looking coach who bangs any hot girl he wants' due to his 'secret game'
The fact that people would even believe this for a second shows you why fantasists like rambo prospered on this forum for so long until me and murk called him out lol
One can't cold approach a girl who thinks he's old and ugly and then use 'game' to force attraction in her. This has been proven time and time again. Some idiot coming out of nowhere telling you he can do what no other (actually proven PUA with INFIELDS) can't do using 'tech' that NONE of them somehow are aware of is like someone coming along and telling you that he can run faster than Usain Bolt (it's not on camera though) using a special training routine that none of the Olympic trainers know about lol. And yes STILL some morons will swallow it and hand over the money lol

 

[BaronOfHair]

There IS no 'ugly ninja turtle looking coach who bangs any hot girl he wants' due to his 'secret game'

No different from millions of otherwise bright folks being taken for a ride by candidates who market themselves as The One, who will lead us to victory in Tolkien-esqu battle against The Evil Overlords who(allegedly)control our planet

Not picking on our current POTUS when I make the above observation... 44 rode to The Oval Office largely on the perception that he'd deliever us from The Neo-Cons who took us into not one, but TWO disastrous acts of military adventism, and the Wall Street fat cats who've(allegedly) rigged the game. Barely anyone pressed him for specifics as to his strategy(ies) for achieving his goals, nor dug into whether or not he was sincere in his promises... Which he promptly proved to NOT be

Sad fact is, being honest enough to say out loud to one's constituents thoughts to the effect of:
"Saving you from all disappointment, frustration, and discomfort is beyond my power... The most I can do is provide you with material that can, possibly, make your labor less arduous and more gainful"

Can be a terrible sales pitch, UNLESS you word such a pitch craftily

 

[Plinco]

No different from millions of otherwise bright folks being taken for a ride by candidates who market themselves as The One, who will lead us to victory in Tolkien-esqu battle against The Evil Overlords who(allegedly)control our planet

Not picking on our current POTUS when I make the above observation... 44 rode to The Oval Office largely on the perception that he'd deliever us from The Neo-Cons who took us into not one, but TWO disastrous acts of military adventism, and the Wall Street fat cats who've(allegedly) rigged the game. Barely anyone pressed him for specifics as to his strategy(ies) for achieving his goals, nor dug into whether or not he was sincere in his promises... Which he promptly proved to NOT be

Sad fact is, being honest enough to say out loud to one's constituents thoughts to the effect of:
"Saving you from all disappointment, frustration, and discomfort is beyond my power... The most I can do is provide you with material that can, possibly, make your labor less arduous and more gainful"

Can be a terrible sales pitch, UNLESS you word such a pitch craftily

Pan87, like I've told you before, emotional manipulation doesn't work in the long run because people have to have things make sense, and the manipulation works until it doesn't.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Pan87, like I've told you before, emotional manipulation doesn't work in the long run because people have to have things make sense, and the manipulation works until it doesn't.

As has been mentioned elsewhere on this forum, all relations between humans/perhaps living creatures more generally, entail some sort of "manipulation". Our species would've never had a shot at ruling the planet, much less succeeded in doing so, if we didn't have the capacity to manipulate one another with language

 

[Plinco]

As has been mentioned elsewhere on this forum, all relations between humans/perhaps living creatures more generally, entail some sort of "manipulation". Our species would've never had a shot at ruling the planet, much less succeeded in doing so, if we didn't have the capacity to manipulate one another with language

It's not manipulation, but the capacity for reason

 

[BaronOfHair]

It's not manipulation, but the capacity for reason

Yeah... The event lamented here

transpired long ago, ergo the only dude who was truly capable of bending the ladies to his will is no more among us today than Megalania, The Inca Empire, and broadcast TV are

"Manipulation" is now more of an anachronism than university campuses that foster a free and robust exchange of ideas, rather than "safe spaces" which kowtow to those who rejoice in being perpetually offended