"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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Is this girl playing games or is she just shy?

lougv22

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Ok, I have a situation with this girl I met the day before yesterday. I had to go to the doctor so she was the nurse, you know one of those cute girls that calls your name, then checks your pulse and all that before you actually see the doctor.

Just for the record this girl was very cute and sexy, but just a little bit on the geeky side, she was wearing glasses. I'd say she was an 8, but in her mind she is probably more like a 7, IMO.

So we are in this little room and I immediately start flirting and doing the C/F routine. She is very open to it, start smiling and laughing, and she introduces her self to me and extends her hand for a hand shake. I keep good eye contact and continue with the C/F. After a few minutes, I feel the mood is right so I say, "Would you like to go get a cup of coffee sometime?" She answers, "Sure, anytime!" and I ask for her phone number and she gives it to me readily.

Later that night, around 9 or so, I text her. She responds immediately, I wait a little while and text her again. We text a few more times, every time she responds very quickly while I wait a little while. Eventually I end the interaction and she says, "Bye talk to you soon" At this point I could tell she had high Interest Level in me.

The next day, yesterday, she texts me at 8:50 in the morning and says "Hi, call me after 5." I wait a couple of hours and than I say, "Is this doctors orders?" She responds immediately and says "Maybe" to which I don't answer. Well, a little later she texts me again and asks "Are you really interested in me?" I wait a little while and I say "You will just have to wait to find out" to which she responds "Ok, I will be waiting". Up until this point it seemed like she had high Interest Level.

So, later that day, about 6, I call her but she doesn't answer so I just leave a message, I just say "Hi, this is so and so. Call me back." Well, she didn't call me back, which surprised me because due to her behavior so far I expected an immediate answer.

So this morning, I texted her and asked her if she got my message. She said Yes and that she was at her other job and didn't get back home until 2. I thought that was kind of fishy, I mean it's a cell phone, it's always with her, she doesn't need to be home to answer it. So I haven't tried to contact her since.

So my question is this: first she seemed like she had high Interest Level and then she didn't return my call and gave me what it looks like a bull**** excuse. Is she playing games or is she just being shy or what? She is not one of those 10's that are experts at playing mind games, she looks more like a regular, a little above average, girl maybe even a little bit shy. I need expert opinion, what's the deal here?
 

"Nervous Around Beautiful Women? There's a Rule for That"

I could talk to any woman I wasn't attracted to. Charming, funny, relaxed. Then a gorgeous woman looked my way and I'd become a sweating, babbling mess.

The fix took me years to find and ten minutes to learn. Nervousness and excitement are the same physical state — pounding heart, adrenaline, flushed face. Your brain just picks the label. And you can pick a better one.

Rule 16 shows you how. You feel the nerves, relabel them as excitement, and let that energy pour out as enthusiasm. Women notice the guy radiating it. They always do.

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woods

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Do you know what her other job is? If she's a nurse, she may not have time to call or text while on shift. Dont make assupmtions. Or maybe one of her girlfriends convinced her to not call you back to try to get you more interested. Dont worry about it. High IL, call her.
 

lougv22

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woods said:
Do you know what her other job is? If she's a nurse, she may not have time to call or text while on shift. Dont make assupmtions. Or maybe one of her girlfriends convinced her to not call you back to try to get you more interested. Dont worry about it. High IL, call her.
Nope, don't know what her other job is. At this time I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I think I will call her one more time, I am just not sure how long to wait before I do that. I mean, I called her yesterday, I can't call twice in two days, that would be too much and I would look needy. How long should I wait?
 

christz

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i thought some girl was flaky because of this.. she gave me what seemed like a canned line,

"Hey i'm not gonna make it at 7 i'll call you when i leave"

yeah yeah.. i bet you will, my response

"i bet, don't worry bout it we'll chill some other time"

her response pretty much within 2 minutes.

"don't be like that, my grandma just got to the house"

my reponse..

"then lets see what's up for 830, let me know if that changes"

i got no response and just go over to her place at the time mentioned sure enough she was dolled up looking fresh and good to go.. lol the only thing that seems weird is she TOLD YOU to call after 6 and she was at her other job? wtf? why tell me to call you KNOWING you won't be able to answer?
 

Juan_Man

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Girls don't have any reason to be shy. They don't do the approaching. Think about it.
 

"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"

You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.

For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.

Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.

The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.

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lougv22

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Juan_Man said:
Girls don't have any reason to be shy. They don't do the approaching. Think about it.
You have me mystified here. What are you saying?
 

christz

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lougv22 said:
You have me mystified here. What are you saying?
he's saying Get the fu*k out there and do something about her/it/the situation/life
 

Juan_Man

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I was actually saying that she is probably playing games. But like Christz said, you need to figure out your next move. Do you want to play the game also or do you want to walk (i.e. walk away)?
 

lougv22

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Juan_Man said:
I was actually saying that she is probably playing games. But like Christz said, you need to figure out your next move. Do you want to play the game also or do you want to walk (i.e. walk away)?
Yes, I do need to figure out my next move, but I can't. That's why I came here for advice and posted detailed listing of my communication with the chick, so that maybe someone here with more experience with girls can give me advice.
 

"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"

You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.

Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.

Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.

Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.

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Juan_Man said:
I was actually saying that she is probably playing games. But like Christz said, you need to figure out your next move. Do you want to play the game also or do you want to walk (i.e. walk away)?
No,no, no - it is not a woman's nature to pursue - this is a predatory function given to men by genetic design!!

Calm down and wait for her response!! What is your hurry? Don't ask her again!! Wait for the call!
 

Mind_Body_Soul

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My first opinion when reading your initial post was that you messaged her way too quickly and responded way too much. Being too available is not a good thing and she may have lost interest. Not sure...

The other possibility is that she is really busy.

Either way - wait for her to show some more interest. Just stop messaging/calling her and she'll either eventually text you and say "Hey, where have ya been?" or she won't, in which case her IL was low.
 

Jason88

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When she said "Are you really interested in me?" that really caught my eye. If she wasn't interested in you why would she care?

Mind body and soul wrote that maybe she lost interest because you responded to quickly.

However, she could really be interested in you, but might be skeptical about how interested you're in her and thus she might be standoffish.

**** it, just push your chips in and call her!!!
 

Rebound Material

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Luke!! said:
From what I got from this was a geeky girl who most likley had no confidence. So when she asked do you really like me that was her affermation. Your reply let her know this was true and she got scarred. She can't believe someone wants to get close to her. So she is really,really shy about the whole situation. This isnt as expert as sigmund freuds work but it could be the poor mans carl jung psychology.
For some reason I reached the same conclusion as Luke on this one. You did say she was on the geeky side right? She may also be getting hit on often by other patients and probably ran into some total scambags. Yea, she's probably just really making sure you arent about to play her.
 

lougv22

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Rebound Material said:
For some reason I reached the same conclusion as Luke on this one. You did say she was on the geeky side right? She may also be getting hit on often by other patients and probably ran into some total scambags. Yea, she's probably just really making sure you arent about to play her.
Yeah, she did look just a tad bit on the geeky side and perhaps a little shy. That's why I am not sure what to do. If she was one of those stuck up 9s or 10s that gets hit on by guys 24 hours a day 7 days a week, then I would be sure she was playing games with me. But she is not, so it's hard to figure it out. I haven't contacted her at all since her last text message yesterday. Still don't know what to do.
 

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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Obsidian

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Would you even be in this situation if you had just talked to her with an actual voice instead of all the txt msgs?
 

ScrewIt

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Obsidian said:
Would you even be in this situation if you had just talked to her with an actual voice instead of all the txt msgs?
exactly. i was about to say the same.

You spoke too much over text and thought you were just messing with her. Getting a girls # is for setting up dates (initially) and when you build rapport you can kid/joke around with text.

On a side note, if she is really the shy type, texting might be easier for her to talk to you than on the phone because of lack of confidence.

But who knows, sh!t does happen, maybe she turned off her phone at her job or whatever who knows. i say give her the benefit of the doubt call again and set up a date.
 

Snow Plowman

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Stop playing around with little games, when the girl is actually calling you. Also stop with the little texting game that your playing, who cares if she is replying back quickly and your wasting time replying later.

Getting the # is just an extension to get on a day2 where you can then close, why would you waste time texting back and forth? You should've already been out with each other and maybe even get the close.

Stop wasting time, just stop with your little fancy texting. It's childish and waste. Why wait for the girls BT to go down when its already high and you can easily get the day2.
 

lougv22

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UPDATE

Well guys, good news. I finally bit the bullet and called the girl earlier today. She answered on the second ring (good sign!). I had actually prepared some topics to talk about and I kept it light, funny, and short (under 5 minutes). She eagerly agreed to meet me for coffee tomorrow so the date is set.

From I was able to gather while talking to her, I don't think she was playing games with me earlier. She seems like a really nice girl that likes to help people, she volunteers to work with troubled kids and such, and has 2 jobs, so she was just probably busy the other day when I first called. It's such a relief to meet a girl that doesn't play stupid games.
 
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