Is there any value in strategic methods of seduction?

[much2learn]

Guys, I realize this is long but please bear with me. I'm driving at something here and it will come together at the end of the post.



Almost exactly one year ago I came to this site. I was in the very very beginning stages of oneitus, and found sosuave when I did a search (and I kid you not) on the web for "how to compliment a girl".

This site was one of the first to come back in the search results. After exploring this place I realized almost EVERYTHING I had ever read or been told about women was wrong. It was amazing -- everything I read on here made sense -- and I felt like a man blind from birth whose eyes had suddenly been healed. I started browsing and reading articles, then printed the entire site off! For the better part of the next month I spent every evening after work reading each and every article.

Then maybe 2 months later I joined the discussion forum and discovered the bible. Eventually I started reading about something called "speed seduction" and "mASF". This led me to discover fastseduction.com and the tremendous, overwhelming quantity of information contained therein. All these different methods -- SS, gunwitch, mystery, juggler, GM, etc. etc. I read everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that I could get my hands on and for which time allowed.

Now, for those of you who I have communicated with one-on-one, you know that my schedule for the last few months has prevented me from really experimenting much with what I have learned from these sites and boards. (This will change in 2 months.) And while THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE for real-world experience, I believe I have internalized much of the attitude of a DJ. I can't really point out how I've changed -- I just know I have. For one, I've had more girls come onto me in the last 6 months than the first 26 years of my life combined. So obviously I'm doing at least a little right.

The past week I had the opportunity to try a little SS for the first time. And it wasn't even very heavy SS, just the peak experience pattern from fastseduction (adapted to fit my personality and knowledge about music). And I didn't deliver it in person but rather thru an IM convo. That stuff WORKS!!!! Wow.... let's say I was really pleased with the results.

This week I've had the opportunity to review MOTU's post regarding his current thoughts on seduction, as well as Mr. Fingers' post detailing his transformation from AFC to what he is today. Both of these guys have far more experience than I do, and it seems they are quite well-practiced in the different methods of seduction (especially MOTU who as I recall mentioned he had tried nearly every method out there, attended numerous seminars, and spent boucou $$$ on his journey to becoming a first-class seductionist). But perhaps the most fascinating thing about both MOTU and Mr. Fingers is that in the end, they have both thrown out all of the strategic methods of seduction (mystery method, gunwitch method, etc. etc. and ESPECIALLY speed seduction and NLP). Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong.... I'm not trying to put words into your mouths.

Which leads me to the crux of this post:

• Is there any value in these strategic methods at all? If so, what is it?????
• What then is the key to seducing women? IT APPEARS TO BE NOTHING MORE THAN MINDSET AND ATTITUDE.

Again, I realize this is a loooooong post but I appreciate the time spent by those who have read it and are willing to respond. I look forward to reading some constructive and insightful replies.

 

[Oscar Wilde]

I'm interested in seeing answers to these questions too.

Osc.

 

[bp1974]

Is there any value in these strategic methods at all? If so, what is it?????

Yes, there is. It teaches you this:

What then is the key to seducing women? IT APPEARS TO BE NOTHING MORE THAN MINDSET AND ATTITUDE.

You've asked one of those questions that can only be answered by your own experiences. MOTU provided a great example of this. If he hadn't gone through the process of trying all the seduction voodoo, he'd never have realised for himself the truth about how to approach women that works for him.

BUT what's true for him won't be true for you, so unless you go through your own process of experience, you'll never know for yourself what works and what doesn't. It IS all about 'mindset and attitude', but it's NOT about trying to use someone else's mindset and attitude. It's about finding your own.

Same goes for the rest of your life too.

I'm feeling philosophical this morning.

bp1974

 

[Bungo Pony]

I haven't tried any of the methods of seduction that you've mentioned, I relied only on the information from this board, and I've done very well developing my own methods. I agree with bp1974:

It IS all about 'mindset and attitude', but it's NOT about trying to use someone else's mindset and attitude. It's about finding your own.

The great thing about developing your own method is that you can incorporate it into any situation, no matter what the topic of conversation is, rather than steering her into a certain direction. When you have your own method, it comes off as much more natural. True, with enough practice of seduction methods, you'll get comfortable with them, but they'll become repetitive and boring.

The only method I've read about and find useful would be Juggler's method. The beauty about that method is you don't have to use all of it, you can just pick out the techniques that you want to use, adapt them to your own style, and leave the rest behind.

What then is the key to seducing women? IT APPEARS TO BE NOTHING MORE THAN MINDSET AND ATTITUDE.

That is a large part of it, but you have to develope ways to deal with certain situations. You can have the "I don't care if I get rejected" mindset and a positive attitude, but you'll find yourself stumped when you encounter a c0ckblocker. There are also other techniques to greatly improve your chances, which will compliment your mindset and attitude, such as using social proof. You'll do allright if you have the right mindset and attitude, but if you have game, you'll be powerful.

 

[much2learn]

*bump*

 

[xblitz44x]

Let me first tell you what ASF and even this board REALLY is. It might be hard to swallow for a lot of guys, but they need to hear it. Lets take it down to it's simplest form:

There was a guy who was good with women, he had a certain "something" about him that attracted women. He told his friends about his conquests, and his rewards, and the friends were very interested. THEY wanted to know what it was that the guy did to get these chicks. THEY wanted to be the one getting all the chicks. So the guy said "Here I'll show you"...and he proceeded to approach a beautiful woman. Sure enough, he closed and got the number. The guys watched and listened to the interaction in amazement. They gathered and broke down everything he did. "He was ****y, he was funny, he acted like he didn't care, he was outgoing, he was 'alpha'".

Now, with THIS knowledge, one of the friends now has the CONFIDENCE to approach because he believes in the material. He approaches a girl (which he may had never done before), and sure enough he got her number. So now, it's CONFIRMED! The friend tries it again, on another woman...but this time gets rejected. So he brings the field report back to the group of friends and explains what happened, and the friends say things like "Well, you weren't ****y/funny enough, you weren't enough of a challenge, you didn't neg her, you fluffed for too long, your close was weak".. Welcome to Sosuave and ASF.

This entire "universe" that we have established here is based on FAULTY assumptions. We are assuming that what works on one girl, works for another. We never stop to think, hmmmm...maybe the FIRST girl that the friend approached liked him anyway, and would have given him the number regardless of his ****y/funny...and the SECOND girl was repelled by him naturally, and all the ****y/funny, negging in the world COULDN'T POSSIBLY change that. We don't consider that because that would strip of us of CONTROL.

We never ONCE think..."Does ANYBODY here know what the hell attraction REALLY is, what causes it, and how it works?" Nope, we just take other's word for it and figure that since they are getting laid it must be attributed to the "skill".

I'd have to say that MOST of the guys here are here because they have low self-esteem. They want to be liked. They want to be able to change who they are so that people (girls) will start to like them. They don't and can't want to hear that the natural attraction is OUT OF THEIR CONTROL. Its all behind the scenes and not a damn thing can change that. Because they think that means that they must return to their miserable lives and 'give up'. So instead they continue living in this fantasy that IS sosuave wanting DESPERATELY to believe that they are getting women because of their GAME. And they are getting rejected because they did something wrong.

We talk, and talk, and talk: "I'm confident, I am the prize, women want me, I don't care what people think, I am carefree when it comes to women, there are millions of women out there why should I care for this one bytch"...yet we are HERE and spend hours upon hours so that we can MAKE those "byches" like us. If they didn't matter to us, why do we need rules, and seduction videos, and seminars, and workshops and bibles?

So therein lies the fault in all of this. Nobody here knows a damn thing about how attraction works, from a psychological level. We just believe what we read because it sounds great. We WANT to believe it. And we all feed off one another. It's a huge circle jerk for your ego's.

"And it wasn't even very heavy SS, just the peak experience pattern from fastseduction (adapted to fit my personality and knowledge about music). And I didn't deliver it in person but rather thru an IM convo. That stuff WORKS!!!!"

How does it 'work". Did the girl have sex with you? What makes you think she wouldn't have had sex with you if you DIDN'T use the pattern? All patterns do is give you something to talk about. They give guys confidence that they won't run out of shyt to say...that's it. No unconscious mind fvcking here...just bullshyt. The girl that "falls" for your patterns, would have fvcked you anway, you just took an unnecissary risk of sounded like a fool and blowing it.

"Is there any value in these strategic methods at all? If so, what is it?????"

First, learn about what attraction REALLY is. It'll take you some time because it's rather technical. But when you figure out what it TRUELY is, you'll see the light and stop wasting your time and money on shyt that had NOTHING to do with your 'results'. Go to www.seducingwomen101.com - trust me. What we can learn from here, is figuring out if women are really into you, or if they are just being nice, you'll notice certain patterns in their behavior that you can use to your advantage, you'll become a better conversationalist, you can learn how to make people feel more comfortable during an interaction. THOSE are the things that are important.

"What then is the key to seducing women? IT APPEARS TO BE NOTHING MORE THAN MINDSET AND ATTITUDE."

Be you, and proud OF it! Be real. Just go out there and do and say whatever the fvck you want, because you feel like saying it. Not because a website said to say it...because YOU feel like saying it. From every experience you'll grow and evolve. Women will notice your strength in character. You're being you and loving it. You're insecurities, you will expose to her YOURSELF. Lead, and she will follow.

If you retrace the history of my posts, you'll see a HUGE contradiction. I changed my ways. I've been the SS route and the ****y/funny route. It was unnatural and the chicks I fvcked, I would have fvcked anyway. I strongly urge you to spend the time you were GOING to spend here, reading what attraction really is, and the dynamic of how it works. Only then will you see the real truth - and not a community of clueless people who get themselves off from a false sense of control.

-Blitz

 

[StuartScott x 2]

Great reply X, I always thought SS was a bunch of crap and you've just confirmed it. Or maybe it just wasn't for me.

 

[bp1974]

I agree with xblitz44x. I don't think this forum is valueless - I think it provides good support to guys with little self-confidence and self-esteem, and at least shows them that they're not the only freaks in the world not getting laid. I also think it can help point guys to their past mistakes, based on their own flaws and flawed assumptions about how to get, and keep, a girlfriend/s.

I don't think it directly helps anyone get laid more, but indirectly it can point guys in the right direction to start growing up.

bp1974