Is the dance floor a REAL pick up field? I no longer think so

[SexPDX]

I am seeing my perspective on the club situation change. I still go to clubs, but with a different mentality.

IMO a REAL pick up is where you use YOUR material to influence how your target feels about you. On the dance floor, it's all about how appealing you are to her based on looks. How you dance does not matter unless you are either really good or really bad and most guys (including me) are neither. You don't TALK to her on the dance floor (at least not much) and therefore your control over the situation is extremely limitted.

When I look back on most of my club success it had very little to do with my skills. The girl basically was into me to begin with. Okay, so had I not been confident and actually DONE the approach it obviously would not have worked but still there was no pick up "skill" involved.

If you are newbie reading this who hesitates to approach women on the dance floor then you probably SHOULD spend some time on the dance floor just to overcome that. But you guys who have been doing this a while should possibly think about staying off the floor and doing some group approaches and disarming obstacles between you and your target. I am not saying don't dance, just try doing your initial approaches off of the floor if the floor has not been working out so well.

Agree, disagree?

Speaking of this, I plan to write a long tips post tonight about wingman theory giving some events last night as an example. Hopefully this will have generated some replies by then.

Nick

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- The seductionist formerly known as trickynick

You either own the game or it owns you.

~"Pon atencion al latido de tu corazon...y el ritmo de tu respiracion...como te permites llegar a ser completamente llevada...por la conexion que esta tomando lugar." ~

 

[comote]

I agree. But I think there are some notable exceptions.
1) drunk girls.
2) When you are doing any sort of pair dancing if a woman sees you dancing well she will want to dance with you and that gets you in the door. Although I think that the real work is done off the dance floor I still think the initial attraction happens on the dance floor. I have had women approach me in this way.

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The very first step to becoming what you want to be is to accept all responsibility for the situation you are in.
in short: quit whining!!!!!!!!!

Why should I care about her, because she looks good? She has given me no reason to care yet.

screw what's right, do what works.

[This message has been edited by comote (edited 06-30-2002).]

 

[HitmanPT]

I have made some PU's on the dance floor, and IMO it's in part based on your looks but also on your atitude. You need to be very confident by doing this kind of PU. Of course I don't ever ask a girl to dance with me I just go there and do it without saying a word. But don't be like those losers guys that hit on every dancing girl on the club, there's certain subtle moves involved.
For a succesfull PU on the dance floor there need to be a lot of EC this is the only way to do it. I never speak to a girl when I'm trying to PU her (on the dance floor of course). The EC really cuts down your rejection rate.
But to the ones that still don't feel confortable approaching on the street (or whatever) I don't recommend doing this without developing some real confidence.

 

[cyclonus]

I disagree Nick. What define's a pick-up? Your looks are displayed no matter what. On the dance floor, you can display your attitude, confidence, alphaness, command of the situation, body language, all of which are components of success in a pick-up. Why is that you feel these things are don't qualify a seduction as a seduction?

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by comote:
I agree. But I think there are some notable exceptions.
1) drunk girls.
2) When you are doing any sort of pair dancing if a woman sees you dancing well she will want to dance with you and that gets you in the door. Although I think that the real work is done off the dance floor I still think the initial attraction happens on the dance floor. I have had women approach me in this way.

Explain how a girl being drunk makes your pick up more skill-focused. I think you are out in left field on that one. I agree with what you said about dancing but from what I have seen you have to be an exceptionally good dancer (in relation to whoever else is there) to be noticed for that reason.

Nick

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- The seductionist formerly known as trickynick

You either own the game or it owns you.

~"Pon atencion al latido de tu corazon...y el ritmo de tu respiracion...como te permites llegar a ser completamente llevada...por la conexion que esta tomando lugar." ~

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by cyclonus:
I disagree Nick. What define's a pick-up? Your looks are displayed no matter what. On the dance floor, you can display your attitude, confidence, alphaness, command of the situation, body language, all of which are components of success in a pick-up. Why is that you feel these things are don't qualify a seduction as a seduction?

cyc, I agree that you can (and I do) display the things you mentioned on the dancefloor but not quite as effectively as an off-the-floor approach where you befriend a group of people that you don't know or perhaps merge groups.

Also, I don't really consider aplhaness a seduction tactic in it's own right. It's just something that helps. The way I see it the dance floor relies too heavily on alphaness to attract the woman rather than seducing her directly.

Nick

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- The seductionist formerly known as trickynick

You either own the game or it owns you.

~"Pon atencion al latido de tu corazon...y el ritmo de tu respiracion...como te permites llegar a ser completamente llevada...por la conexion que esta tomando lugar." ~

 

[cyclonus]

Originally posted by SexPDX:
cyc, I agree that you can (and I do) display the things you mentioned on the dancefloor but not quite as effectively as an off-the-floor approach where you befriend a group of people that you don't know or perhaps merge groups.

Also, I don't really consider aplhaness a seduction tactic in it's own right. It's just something that helps. The way I see it the dance floor relies too heavily on alphaness to attract the woman rather than seducing her directly.

Nick

Nick, what is "direct seduction"? Using your words to make a woman desire you? And everything else is indirect? Well, if it's that bit of play with semantics, then I'll agree with you. But seduction is seduction to me, whether is covert or simply relying on something else. Social proof, looks, alphaness, any other "technique" not relying on the convo is fair game. I think that the dance floor can SPECIALIZE itself in certain techniques like KINO and EC.

Women are naturally born seducers. They "rely" on their looks and feminity and due to the fragile weakness of the male dyck.

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by cyclonus:
Nick, what is "direct seduction"? Using your words to make a woman desire you? And everything else is indirect? Well, if it's that bit of play with semantics, then I'll agree with you. But seduction is seduction to me, whether is covert or simply relying on something else. Social proof, looks, alphaness, any other "technique" not relying on the convo is fair game. I think that the dance floor can SPECIALIZE itself in certain techniques like KINO and EC.

Women are naturally born seducers. They "rely" on their looks and feminity and due to the fragile weakness of the male dyck.

All good points, cyc. On further reflection I have refined my "direct seduction" issue and it is this: I feel now that in the past where I was relying on alphaness completely I was working within the natural model of attraction that entertains this notion of the "alpha male" and I either made it with the chicks because of it or I didn't, and being alpha I dismissed "failiure" as inconsequential because gaining approval of women was not what my ego was based on.

I still do very much value alphaness but now I am starting to think of seduction as techniques that enable us to operate outside this evolutionary model. Do you , cyc, believe that I have misled myself in believing that a REAL seductionist is one who goes AGAINST THE GRAIN with his methods?

Nick

------------------
- The seductionist formerly known as trickynick

You either own the game or it owns you.

~"Pon atencion al latido de tu corazon...y el ritmo de tu respiracion...como te permites llegar a ser completamente llevada...por la conexion que esta tomando lugar." ~

 

[cyclonus]

Originally posted by SexPDX:
All good points, cyc. On further reflection I have refined my "direct seduction" issue and it is this: I feel now that in the past where I was relying on alphaness completely I was working within the natural model of attraction that entertains this notion of the "alpha male" and I either made it with the chicks because of it or I didn't, and being alpha I dismissed "failiure" as inconsequential because gaining approval of women was not what my ego was based on.

I still do very much value alphaness but now I am starting to think of seduction as techniques that enable us to operate outside this evolutionary model. Do you , cyc, believe that I have misled myself in believing that a REAL seductionist is one who goes AGAINST THE GRAIN with his methods?

Nick

I think that perhaps what makes a seductionist a seductionist is that he KNOWS what he's doing. A lot of guys are just alpha just to "show off" or "fit in" or "raise their social status" and chicks somehow accidentally flock to them. A real seductionist is someone who is in CONTROL and doesn't get just get chicks by accident. And he employs whatever techniques he needs to improve his game. Alphaness is a very SMALL part of the game. Convo is a very LARGE part of the game. But both are something a seductionist would work on and tweak.

I think just BEING a seductionist is going against the grain. How many people can call themselves that Nick? I don't think that's the goal of most of the guys on this site, they just wish to be happy, confident men, who are good at the dating game. You and I know there is no "dating game" in seduction.

 

[BGMan]

Well, I was at a dance club last night (my hearing is still trying to recover...) and I can say that it isn't a real pick-up field because the vast majority of the girls there are with boyfriends (or girlfriends ... aka lezbos).

However, I did have a good opportunity to practice DJing on a 9 and she'll probably remember me if we bump into each other.

BGMan

 

[Master of the Universe]

Nick,

I can understand where you're coming from, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

I've noticed that a lot of guys believe that dancing is a weak seduction style, especially guys on ASF, but I've found it to be very powerful.

In five minutes on the dance floor I can accomplish the same level of seduction that would take me a half-hour otherwise.

I look at dancing as a high-speed version of seduction. For one thing, I don't go for that freestyle dancing you see most often in hip-hop clubs. I'll spin a girl, and use salsa and swing turns and moves. This gets you plenty of kino, plus since you are leading, the girl is in essence surrendering to you, and to your initiatives.

Secondly, go for intense eye contact with virtually any chick for five minutes, and you WILL get a response from her. It's almost impossible not to. Eye contact is powerful, but is even more so when you utilize it properly in a seductive manner. I've had chicks lock eye contact with me so that they trance themselves out without one word from me.

Also attitude is a major part of a dancefloor PU. I'm always laughing and having the time of my life while dancing, and the attitude is contagious. Along with that, I'll make my dance moves as sensual as possible... think of them as the Speed Seduction version of sexual metaphors adapted for the dance floor.

As well, I love to keep on whispering a girl's name in her ears while dancing. Sounds stupid? Well... it is, but it works!

I'll be spinning her around then get close to her and say something like "Hi Jessica" while smiling, and then a second later I'll spin her to me again, and I'll say something like "Jessica... hi." At first girls think it's kind of strange, but after a couple of times they start giggling like little children.

Anyway, that last part was just a personal technique of mine. But the important thing is that dancing does work, even if you are not the best dancer. Just use Kino, EC, and have a fun and sensual attitude.

Just like Speed Seduction, ****y/funny, neg-hits, and other strategies each have their strengths and weaknesses, so does dancing. The only rule to remember is to use whatever tool gets the job done. If SS works the best with that particular chick, use it. If it's alphaness, use it. If it's dancing, use it. Bottom line, whatever works is the right method.

Master of the Universe

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"Fortune favors the bold." - Virgil

"Boldness has genius, power and magic in it." - Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

"He was better. But he thought I was finished, with only one arm. He never understood. You surrender after you’re dead." - Lan Mandragoran

 

[JustDoItAlways]

Its a great opener. But, you can't take her directly from the dance floor to your place without saying a word to her.

You still need conversation at some point to seal the deal whether that's getting her phone number or taking her home. This is more of a make-it or break-it situation than on the dance floor.

And there is nothing like the bump and grind of those Lezbos on the dance floor. Women are way more sexual than we think.

 

[Powertrip]

Explain how a girl being drunk makes your pick up more skill-focused.

It's just like the proverbial wounded Gazelle.

 

[Vatican]

Originally posted by JustDoItAlways:
Its a great opener. But, you can't take her directly from the dance floor to your place without saying a word to her.

I beg to disagree.


[This message has been edited by Vatican (edited 07-01-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Vatican (edited 07-01-2002).]

 

[wheelin&dealin]

Originally posted by BGMan:
However, I did have a good opportunity to practice DJing on a 9 and she'll probably remember me if we bump into each other.

BGMan

Why didn't you go for her number?

 

[wheelin&dealin]

My club situation has changed quite drastically since I found this site. I used to get heavily liquored and approach on the dancefloor all the time when I was an AFC.

Currently I limit it to about 2 drinks a night and I do all my approaching off the dancefloor.

I find it easier to approach a HB off the dancefloor because my conversational skills are money. I recommend this if you are a smooth talker. Also, not many guys can walk up to a HB and start a conversation. This sets you apart from everyone else.

 

[david_med@hotmail.com]

i personally agree with the post on doing whatever works for you. ive taken home girls from dancefloor seduction but this is the conclusion ive come to.... if youre trying to bag a girl the first nite, ur seduction and all your game is only half the story... the other half is her mindset when she came to the club or party. most girls decide before they go to a club the reason they are there.... pickup, attention, dance, meet and exchange numbers etc..

so a lot of it is not all on the man. if youre all about scoring, your best bet is to scope out the scene for the flirty/dancing ones and gamble on a couple and see if you can bag them.

most of the girls ive bagged at clubs or parties were one of 3 kinds.... 1) girls on the rebound 2) insecure girls looking for a self esteem boost by any means necessary. 3) girl keeping her options open and seeing what will happen (openminded girl)...kinda like a different way to say 2.

no girl in her honest to goodness right state of mind would want to bag a guy on the first meeting, unless there is like this magic super chemistry, and even then youre 9/10 limited to just macking.

so what the hell am i saying? i think what im saying is that dont put so much pressure on yourself to perform. although we have to bring the game as guys, so do the girls. and if youre trying to score, its not just what you do but who u target...predator style.

just my 2 cents.

 

[david_med@hotmail.com]

also, one more thing... if a girl is in one of those 3 states i mentioned, she will bag a guy anywhere from a 5-9 rating depending on who gets her first or the best catch around.

i consider myself a goodlooking guy, and ive passed a good share of girls to my AFC friends just for setting the stage right for them. one of my friends is a total beneficiery of this man...hah, but im digressing.

anyhow, wouldnt it be nice to be in a rockband or something? dream on david dream on

 

[comote]

Originally posted by SexPDX:
Explain how a girl being drunk makes your pick up more skill-focused. I think you are out in left field on that one. I agree with what you said about dancing but from what I have seen you have to be an exceptionally good dancer (in relation to whoever else is there) to be noticed for that reason.

Nick

the drunk girl comment was a joke. I have started dancing merengue, salsa, and swing just this year and in that time I have become good enough to get noticed. Learning is not so hard. You just have to be willing to look not as good as the others while you learn.
I definitely agree with you in general. I start out talking to the ladies off the floor and then move the action onto the floor.

------------------
The very first step to becoming what you want to be is to accept all responsibility for the situation you are in.
in short: quit whining!!!!!!!!!

Why should I care about her, because she looks good? She has given me no reason to care yet.

screw what's right, do what works.

 

[Bonhomme]

I'm of the opinion that the dancefloor can be real good if you work it right, *especially* if you have the kind of skills MoU has.

Even if you're freestyle dancing you can make a good impression if you're having a good time. It *is* contagious, and especially good if small-talk doesn't come easy to you.