Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[corrector]

The fact normal daily life is draining for a man on the spectrum also explains why I don't even want a girlfriend/wife (even if no kids).

It's also why I have little desire to go out and do stuff that could help me meet a woman.

Yeah, welcome to 9-5 full time work. What about your weekends?

 

[GoodMan32]

There's some evidence https://reason.com/2007/09/12/could-it-be-that-all-men-are-a/ demonstrating that most men have shades of autism, just as there's evidence demonstrating that women are biologically hardwired to exhibit traits which can be construed as "borderline" https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/women-arent-built-9-5-heres-why-josie-blake-elhbc

As others have said on this thread, and even The MSN was willing to entertain, in our pre-Woke past https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/16/health/mental-illness-overdiagnosis/index.html :

Pathologizing the ever-living piss out of everything, and centering your entire existence around some psych troubles you may or may not have leads to one being stuck in a state of inertia

As I mentioned on a previous post, I convinced myself during college I had outgrown the spectrum.

Yet it still didn't help me with the ladies. All of my sex during college (all of which was free by the way) came from hookup websites.

See, even without using the spectrum as an excuse, I still couldn't woo a woman into bed the traditional way, even on a college campus.

That's pretty alarming.

 

[GoodMan32]

Incorrect about women. For a woman pregnancy means that your entire life is changing forever, starting with the physical changes that occur during the pregnancy itself. It means unforeseen potential medical risks and possible complications.

Pregnancy is not that big of a deal in most cases. But a woman's life is irretrievably changed once that baby is born. Unless the woman gives the baby up, which only a tiny group of women do.

But most of all it means fear of the 24/7/365 responsibility that a baby and toddler and small child and school age child and teenager represent for the next 18 years.

Fear of pregnancy is really fear of decades long committment, obligation and responsibility for women, and fear of being saddled with all that responsibility with the WRONG dude.

Even though we don't undergo the physical changes, isn't the responsibility aspect every bit as relevant for men too?

 

[GoodMan32]

Parental responsibility may 'end' at 18 years, but with most children not moving out at 18, you'll end up taking care of them far longer.


Or, for men, with the WRONG woman. I have no regrets about having children, but if I could go back I wouldn't have them with my ex-wife.

In any event, pregnancy may cause worry and in some cases anxiety, but @GoodMan32 has CRIPPLING anxiety which is uncommon and he should talk that over with his shrink ASAP and not hide behind 'but he didn't ask me anything'.

As has been suggested on this thread, I agree I should mention the pregnancy phobia to my therapist.

And you're 100% right that kids are often a responsibility that goes beyond 18 years. Even though I pay most of my living expenses, I still rely on partial assistance from parents.

Which is another reason I struggle with the ladies. Getting partial assistance from parents really hurts my confidence (and I'm petrified for a woman to find out)

 

[GoodMan32]

Yeah, welcome to 9-5 full time work.

Yeah. Per my therapist's recommendation, I went to a FetLife meetup back in June. A guy at the meetup said he runs into the same problem (little inclination to do anything after work).

Even if this problem is more pronounced for those of us on the spectrum, it can impact normies too.

 

[corrector]

Yeah. Per my therapist's recommendation, I went to a FetLife meetup back in June. A guy at the meetup said he runs into the same problem (little inclination to do anything after work).

Even if this problem is more pronounced for those of us on the spectrum, it can impact normies too.

I edited the previous post to suggest weekends. In my situation, my shift hours are actually 2-10p, and one can say that nobody can have a life with those type of hours as I don't even have evenings free. In fact, last week I remember coming home and hitting the sack after just changing my clothes and waking up the next morning. Plus I have to take care of the chores and manage bills in the home all of which are time consuming in their own right.

However, if you weren't escortcelling, do you think you would feel more motivated? The fact that you are getting your needs met twice a month, or once every three months with that "lady" could be killing your motivation since you've boxed in that need, within your spectrum, into a nice and tidy resolution. You might need to cut that completely out in order to find the motivation you need to cold / warm approach women. I've seen this in other posts on escort sites how single guys lose their motivation to deal with women (ie unless it's really easy (ie they are throwing themselves at you or making it ultra-easy) because they are engaged in that habit.

Have you thought of pausing that habit for 6 months/1 year and see if that helps you find the motivation? I mean if things are that hard for you, but you are getting your needs met by women you are attracted to, then why would you want to meet women and deal with the hassle, drama, ghosting, and potentially poisoning the well (if at work).

Maybe the truth of the matter is you don't want to deal with women, have found a happy comfort zone that you are content enough to be the way you are, say you are in the spectrum so you have a "rubber stamp" by society to be that way, and why would you want to change all of that? I've read this book from amazon called "How to not give a f****", and the insights on that book, is subconciously, we might want to fail because there are hidden reasons inside us that want to maintain the status quo. Maybe yours boils down to a choice to kick a bad habit as a token of how bad you really want to be the type of man that's successful with "free" women.

An analogy I can think of is watching a movie in cinema compared to watching a pirated version at home. If you watch a pirated version, then the motivation to want to watch it properly in the cinema will be compromised. You miss out on the big experience, but are content enough having already watched it, that you don't have that extra umph to get out to watch it. It might be like that with "free" women to you.

 

[BaronOfHair]

In any event, pregnancy may cause worry and in some cases anxiety, but @GoodMan32 has CRIPPLING anxiety which is uncommon and he should talk that over with his shrink ASAP and not hide behind 'but he didn't ask me anything'.

If there's any truth to these statistics which are mentioned in the press on an almost minute by minute basis ("Men aren't dating and having sex with anyone but themselves anymore"), such anxiety MAY NOT be that unusual

 

[GoodMan32]

I edited the previous post to suggest weekends. In my situation, my shift hours are actually 2-10p, and one can say that nobody can have a life with those type of hours as I don't even have evenings free. In fact, last week I remember coming home and hitting the sack after just changing my clothes and waking up the next morning. Plus I have to take care of the chores and manage bills in the home all of which are time consuming in their own right.

However, if you weren't escortcelling, do you think you would feel more motivated? The fact that you are getting your needs met twice a month, or once every three months with that "lady" could be killing your motivation since you've boxed in that need, within your spectrum, into a nice and tidy resolution. You might need to cut that completely out in order to find the motivation you need to cold / warm approach women. I've seen this in other posts on escort sites how single guys lose their motivation to deal with women (ie unless it's really easy (ie they are throwing themselves at you or making it ultra-easy) because they are engaged in that habit.

Have you thought of pausing that habit for 6 months/1 year and see if that helps you find the motivation? I mean if things are that hard for you, but you are getting your needs met by women you are attracted to, then why would you want to meet women and deal with the hassle, drama, ghosting, and potentially poisoning the well (if at work).

Maybe the truth of the matter is you don't want to deal with women, have found a happy comfort zone that you are content enough to be the way you are, say you are in the spectrum so you have a "rubber stamp" by society to be that way, and why would you want to change all of that? I've read this book from amazon called "How to not give a f****", and the insights on that book, is subconciously, we might want to fail because there are hidden reasons inside us that want to maintain the status quo. Maybe yours boils down to a choice to kick a bad habit as a token of how bad you really want to be the type of man that's successful with "free" women.

An analogy I can think of is watching a movie in cinema compared to watching a pirated version at home. If you watch a pirated version, then the motivation to want to watch it properly in the cinema will be compromised. You miss out on the big experience, but are content enough having already watched it, that you don't have that extra umph to get out to watch it. It might be like that with "free" women to you.

I've mentioned on this forum that during college, I probably spent 100 hours striking out on hookup websites for every successful lay I got (and even then, all my successful lays in college came from the woman messaging me)

With a full time job, I don't have the time to pour 100 hours into striking out. It's no surprise that my 2 most recent free lays were in the "just sort of happened" category.

I guess what I'm saying is: Whether my motivation is killed or not is a moot point, seeing as I no longer have time for the strategy I had the most success with.

 

[GoodMan32]

If there's any truth to these statistics which are mentioned in the press on an almost minute by minute basis ("Men aren't dating and having sex with anyone but themselves anymore"), such anxiety MAY NOT be that unusual

While some men really are as petrified as me about pregnancy, there's more at play with the typical dateless/sexless man.

A big factor for why a lot of men are giving up on women: Younger men weren't as socialized during their adolescent years (because of the social media era). It's largely 30 and under men who are giving up on women in record numbers.

They never really learned how to pursue the opposite sex.

 

[BaronOfHair]

They never really learned how to pursue the opposite sex.

Some assert that we're in the midst of a loneliness epidemic https://www.npr.org/2023/05/02/1173...ection-mental-health-dementia-surgeon-general The causes of this are no doubt complicated, nonetheless it's fair to infer:

Guys hanging around on forums mulling over the many ways being on the spectrum may be sabotaging their prospects for success, and chicks congregating on social media to groan over being Cluster B, isn't easing these agonies. Especially when such conversations place very emphasis on rectifying such difficulties in some tangible way

 

[SW15]

It's also why I have little desire to go out and do stuff that could help me meet a woman.

There are even neurotypical introverts that feel this way. I think staying in has gotten easier in recent decades first with cable/satellite TV's growth in the 1980s/1990s and then high speed internet coming into play in the 2000s. The 2000s also brought more social media platforms and smartphones.

 

[BeExcellent]

Even though we don't undergo the physical changes, isn't the responsibility aspect every bit as relevant for men too?

Do men get pregnant? No.
Do men give birth? No.
Do men breastfeed? No.

Babies require care 24/7/365. Otherwise they die. Literally. For the mother the responsibility of a baby is far more mandatory/obligatory and pressing than it is for the father.

 

[corrector]

Do men get pregnant? No.
Do men give birth? No.
Do men breastfeed? No.

Babies require care 24/7/365. Otherwise they die. Literally. For the mother the responsibility of a baby is far more mandatory/obligatory and pressing than it is for the father.

Apart from physical / biological aspects, what other responsibilities would you also add to that list that would be different to what men could do?

 

[BaronOfHair]

Do men get pregnant? No.
Do men give birth? No.
Do men breastfeed? No.

Babies require care 24/7/365. Otherwise they die. Literally. For the mother the responsibility of a baby is far more mandatory/obligatory and pressing than it is for the father.

OP's got an addiction to rationalizing. For any of us to continue trying to reason with him is more fruitless that trying to persuade a Presidential candidate's sycophants that he's just a person like the rest of us, not The Mahdi who's going to bring about a Utopia

 

[Vanderdonck]

is it even worth it for me to try with in-person approaches? Or should I stick with methods that have given me more success (Dating/hookup websites. Waiting for the woman to approach me. Allowing it to just sort of happen, with neither of us making the move)?

These are cost/benefit questions that only you can answer. So you'll have to explore them and decide on what makes you happier.

 

[Chow Mein]

It can be very hard for those on the spectrum. There is a lack of human compassion and understanding. Though, I’ve dated really good looking women that have been with men on the spectrum prior to me. Just don’t lead with your wallet.

Women have a knack for finding what suits their own interest, I can understand why the outcome can leave those men on the spectrum, Asperger’s somewhat misled.

I have not been in your shoes so I can’t provide much perspective. It’s just my experience from the other side of things.

I do mean good-will on this post, I struggle with finding the words to connect with those on the spectrum…I apologize if this may come across offending.

Hope for the best, OP. Hope others on the spectrum here can share their stories.

 

[BaronOfHair]

It can be very hard for those on the spectrum. There is a lack of human compassion and understanding. Though, I’ve dated really good looking women that have been with men on the spectrum prior to me. Just don’t lead with your wallet.

Women have a knack for finding what suits their own interest, I can understand why the outcome can leave those men on the spectrum, Asperger’s somewhat misled.

I have not been in your shoes so I can’t provide much perspective. It’s just my experience from the other side of things.

I do mean good-will on this post, I struggle with finding the words to connect with those on the spectrum…I apologize if this may come across offending.

Hope for the best, OP. Hope others on the spectrum here can share their stories.

As was discussed in a separate thread https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...o-your-house-dates.282228/page-5#post-3121416 When men with troubles far more grave than autism (Such as psychopathy)have learned to modify their behavior enough to be charming company, there's no excuse for the rest of us being unable to do so

 

[GoodMan32]

As was discussed in a separate thread https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...o-your-house-dates.282228/page-5#post-3121416 When men with troubles far more grave than autism (Such as psychopathy)have learned to modify their behavior enough to be charming company, there's no excuse for the rest of us being unable to do so

Since that thread got locked, I wasn't able to reply.

Here's what I wanted to say: Psychopaths know their psychotic behavior is wrong. That's why they're able to modify their behavior when need be; they know what exactly needs to be modified.

On the other hand, with me, being on the spectrum means I'm unfamiliar with all sorts of social norms. There isn't necessarily one specific thing I do that drives a woman away in 100% of cases. The exact thing I do is probably different in every case.

With most of the women I've driven away, I don't even know what exactly I did to drive her away. My unfamiliarity with social norms could cause me to freak the woman out in all sorts of ways.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Here's what I wanted to say: Psychopaths know their psychotic behavior is wrong. That's why they're able to modify their behavior when need be; they know what exactly needs to be modified

Yeah, they've become aware that antics like loudly boasting(while standing in line at Trader Joe's) of dousing kittens in kerosene, then setting those poor creatures ablaze, drives away regular people. They've likely read venerable tracts such as "How to talk to anyone"(Leil Lowndes), watched seminars on increasing one's charisma, etc etc. Thus, high-functioning psychopaths have learned how to not act in ways likely to give "normal" folks the heebie jeebies, and frequently make for charming if perilous company

The miracle of Google has made looking up traits of those who are "on the spectrum" up https://www.hhs.texas.gov/services/...tics-individuals-autism-spectrum-disorder-asd , so that they can be eliminated or at the very least reduced, remarkably easy

Again, there's substantial biological evidence demonstrating that men as a class are all on the spectrum to a degree https://reason.com/2007/09/12/could-it-be-that-all-men-are-a/ , just as there's a fair amount indicating that women are physiologically designed to exhibit shades of Bordeline https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/women-arent-built-9-5-heres-why-josie-blake-elhbc

Both genders have to recognize get past these obstacles if we're to thrive and prosper

 

[GoodMan32]

Yeah, they've become aware that antics like loudly boasting(while standing in line at Trader Joe's) of dousing kittens in kerosene, then setting those poor creatures ablaze, drives away regular people. They've likely read venerable tracts such as "How to talk to anyone"(Leil Lowndes), watched seminars on increasing one's charisma, etc etc. Thus, high-functioning psychopaths have learned how to not act in ways likely to give "normal" folks the heebie jeebies, and frequently make for charming if perilous company

The miracle of Google has made looking up traits of those who are "on the spectrum" up https://www.hhs.texas.gov/services/...tics-individuals-autism-spectrum-disorder-asd , so that they can be eliminated or at the very least reduced, remarkably easy

To give an example of my ASD getting in the way of keeping a woman, here's a thread about my most recent date:

I had my first date in ages. Here's the good and the bad.

This past Saturday, I had my first date in ages. Everything was going well. We chatted quite a bit on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday (She reached out to me first on all 3 of those days). On Monday, she even asked me about getting dinner again this coming weekend (I said yeah). Then on Tuesday, she...

www.sosuave.net

To give a cliffnotes summary of where I went wrong: The woman asked me, 2 days after our 1st date, "So where are we going on our 2nd date?"

Then on day 3, she asked the same question. In both cases, I told her we'd make a gameday decision.

I remember at least one poster telling me a grave error on my part was that I didn't pick a venue. My therapist said the same thing (he said a woman likes a man with a plan).

I had no idea whatsoever that the man is supposed to do that.

Let that sink in: I made it to my 30s without learning that the man is supposed to pick the venue.

That's just one example to illustrate how lacking I am in my understanding of social norms.