Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

GoodMan32

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I've had 9 free sex partners. That being said, the "make a move on a woman in person; get laid" strategy has never gotten me laid.

Of my 9 free partners,
  • 7 came from hookup websites.
  • 2 just sort of happened (with neither of us making the move).
I've also been on dates with 8 different gals. There's very little overlap between my dates and my intercourse (7 of the 8 gals I've had dates with were sexless).

The "make a move in person; get a date" strategy has only worked on one girl (Back when I was in college. And she was extremely strange. I had to break it off shortly into our relationship. Also, it's worth mentioning: She's one of my many sexless dates).

The rest of my dates came from the following strategies:
  • Dating/hookup websites.
  • The woman making the move on me.
  • The date sort of just happened (with neither of us making the move).
So here's my question: Since making a move in person has given me a 0% success rate at getting laid (and only a minimal success rate at getting a date, with a girl I ended up regretting anyway), is it even worth it for me to try with in-person approaches? Or should I stick with methods that have given me more success (Dating/hookup websites. Waiting for the woman to approach me. Allowing it to just sort of happen, with neither of us making the move)?

One more thing I should mention on my OP: I know many of you are aware of my escort habit. I'm going to request everyone refrain from turning this into an escort thread. This thread isn't about escorts; it's about my successes/failures at getting a free woman (and how to maximize the odds of getting a free woman)
 

Dr.Suave

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What do you want bro? Get laid as much as possible?

Keep doing what has been giving you the best results but also simulteneously keep improving all areas of your life so you can eventually have access to better quality girls regardless of how/where you meet them. Dont over-think, keep it simple.
 

GoodMan32

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What do you want bro? Get laid as much as possible?

Keep it simple. Keep doing what has been giving you the best results but also simulteneously keep improving all areas of your life so you can eventually have access to better quality girls regardless of how/where you meet them.
Yeah, I want to get laid as much as possible. At my current age, I don't have as much will to date (but I am open to going on dates if they get me laid)
 

GoodMan32

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That's better than a lot of men.



What is a hookup website? Adult Friend Finder was that a long time ago. Tinder is a hookup app.
The hookup websites I got laid from were craigslist and datehookup. This was back when craigslist still allowed sex ads.

I signed up for Adult Friend Finder (as well as various other hookup websites whose name I forget) in college, with no luck.

To give you an idea of what era I was in college, I am currently in my early 30s.

I'm aware 9 free partners is better than a lot of men. That being said, the typical man has at least had success with getting laid by a woman he met the traditional way (making a move on her in person), even if his overall body count is lower than mine. In a way, that makes the typical man better than me at getting laid. Especially when you take the following into account: For every successful lay I got from hookup websites, I probably spent 100+ hours striking out on hookup websites. The typical man, if he invested that type of time commitment into hookup websites, would get laid.

If anything, the fact I had to pour a gargantuan amount of hours into getting laid even on hookup websites that were full of horny broads drives the point home that I'm a failure.
 
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BackInTheGame78

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There is so much to unpack here but the problem, once again as is so often is that people think "if I do X then Y HAS to occur". No it doesn't.

There are so many nuances, so many variables that just because you do X, doesn't mean that Y is going to happen regardless.

I think the issue is you want some "fail proof way" of doing it when that doesn't exist and never has and never will.

It's ALL trial and error, trying something and failing, making adjustments and then trying something else.

It's mind boggling that people think this is somehow different than anything else in life.

When you first started riding a bike as a kid, did things go exactly to plan the first time you did it? What about the second, the third, the fiftieth?

Did you just throw your hands up and say, oh well I guess I will give up. Most likely no. You kept at it and kept at it and figured out how to do it and became good at it.

So if you could do that as a little kid and you knew the best way to improve at something is to keep working at and working at it, why are adults unable to simply get out of their own way with their negativity, self doubt and terrible self talk that basically ensures they will never improve and just give up?

I don't get it. Never have, Never will. People are their own worst enemies.

The answer is OP, you need to fail more.

The people who have become successful at this have failed 10 times more than you have even attempted. Minimum. Probably more like 50 or 100 times more.

They didn't care. They got back up and tried again.

So honestly unless you are wanting to change your mindset from having a loser mentality to having a winner mentality, then it's probably not worth it.
 

SW15

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For every successful lay I got from hookup websites, I probably spent 100+ hours striking out on hookup websites. The typical man, if he invested that type of time commitment into hookup websites, would get laid.
The typical male has a very high failure rate in all tech-based forms of interacting with women. There's a lot of content in this forum about how unsuccessful most men are on the swipe apps. Most men don't do well in sending DMs on social media platforms either.
 
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GoodMan32

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There is so much to unpack here but the problem, once again as is so often is that people think "if I do X then Y HAS to occur". No it doesn't.

There are so many nuances, so many variables that just because you do X, doesn't mean that Y is going to happen regardless.

I think the issue is you want some "fail proof way" of doing it when that doesn't exist and never has and never will.

It's ALL trial and error, trying something and failing, making adjustments and then trying something else.

It's mind boggling that people think this is somehow different than anything else in life.

When you first started riding a bike as a kid, did things go exactly to plan the first time you did it? What about the second, the third, the fiftieth?

Did you just throw your hands up and say, oh well I guess I will give up. Most likely no. You kept at it and kept at it and figured out how to do it and became good at it.

So if you could do that as a little kid and you knew the best way to improve at something is to keep working at and working at it, why are adults unable to simply get out of their own way with their negativity, self doubt and terrible self talk that basically ensures they will never improve and just give up?

I don't get it. Never have, Never will. People are their own worst enemies.

The answer is OP, you need to fail more.

The people who have become successful at this have failed 10 times more than you have even attempted. Minimum. Probably more like 50 or 100 times more.

They didn't care. They got back up and tried again.

So honestly unless you are wanting to change your mindset from having a loser mentality to having a winner mentality, then it's probably not worth it.
Middle school, high school, and college covers a 10 year stretch.

I don't remember exactly how long it took for me to master the art of riding a bike. I know one thing though: It took me way less than 10 years to master riding a bike. On the other hand, expressing interest in a girl in-person never got me any success for the entire decade-long stretch of middle school/high school/college (With the exception of that one extremely strange girl in one of my college classes I got a sexless date from. And calling her strange is an understatement. This girl carried around a blanket and a stuffed animal).

At the risk of making it sound like I'm using the spectrum thing as an excuse, I really think being on the spectrum is what's holding me back. Being on the spectrum makes you come across as a creep right off the bat (which would explain why I have better luck with gals I meet online, as I can make a good impression before they see me in person).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting the idea that we can learn a lot from failure (and there certainly have been other areas in which failure has been a good teacher for me). I merely have my doubts that more failure would help a guy in this specific instance (where being on the spectrum is likely the thing that drives the ladies away)
 

GoodMan32

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The typical has a very high failure rate in all tech-based forms of interacting with women. There's a lot of content in this forum about how unsuccessful most men are on the swipe apps. Most men don't do well in sending DMs on social media platforms either.
Ok. Fair enough. In that case, I guess I'm in the same boat as the typical man (where I have to fail a lot online before I finally succeed). That being said, the fact still remains that I've had better luck online than I've had with making a move in person (which isn't saying much)
 

Canadian_Man

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Since making a move in person has given me a 0% success rate at getting laid (and only a minimal success rate at getting a date, with a girl I ended up regretting anyway), is it even worth it for me to try with in-person approaches? Or should I stick with methods that have given me more success (Dating/hookup websites. Waiting for the woman to approach me. Allowing it to just sort of happen, with neither of us making the move)?
Ah, the "I'll try to bias the audience first before asking the question in attempt to get the answer I want" trick.

You're going to do what you want.

You're just looking for others to justify your emotional decision.

And I keep reading "excuse excuse excuse" in your posts.

Yes I'm being intentionally hard on you, because I think you need it.

In regards to the excuse that seems to be your fall back position for continuing as you are ... If you have autism, then it's presumably "high functioning", given how and what you write.

It might require extra effort to improve yourself, and a different set of weaknesses to overcome than typical, but it's still possible.

Identifying with the label in such a manner that you let it hold you back is counter-productive.
 

BackInTheGame78

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Middle school, high school, and college covers a 10 year stretch.

I don't remember exactly how long it took for me to master the art of riding a bike. I know one thing though: It took me way less than 10 years to master riding a bike. On the other hand, expressing interest in a girl in-person never got me any success for the entire decade-long stretch of middle school/high school/college (With the exception of that one extremely strange girl in one of my college classes I got a sexless date from. And calling her strange is an understatement. This girl carried around a blanket and a stuffed animal).

At the risk of making it sound like I'm using the spectrum thing as an excuse, I really think being on the spectrum is what's holding me back. Being on the spectrum makes you come across as a creep right off the bat (which would explain why I have better luck with gals I meet online, as I can make a good impression before they see me in person).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting the idea that we can learn a lot from failure (and there certainly have been other areas in which failure has been a good teacher for me). I merely have my doubts that more failure would help a guy in this specific instance (where being on the spectrum is likely the thing that drives the ladies away)
What did you learn from each failure and do differently when things didn't work? Or did you keep trying the same thing over and over again?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

The length of time doesn't matter. If you do something 20 times over 10 years, you could have learned the same thing as doing it 20 times over 2 weeks.

It's the number of attempts that count, not the length of time. Have you failed at least 1000 times at it? If not, you haven't done it enough. Keep going.

My guess is you haven't even failed 50 times over that 10 years.

Everyone has a different learning curve. Assuming you have done enough because you tried it x number of times isn't valid. You measure your progress and improvement incrementally and it won't be a straight line.

Also need to have realistic expectations.

You might never become Cassanova but you can definitely improve where you are at this point because it seems like you are pretty close to the bottom.
 
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Canadian_Man

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It's ALL trial and error, trying something and failing, making adjustments and then trying something else.

It's mind boggling that people think [learning to interact with women] is somehow different than anything else in life.

When you first started riding a bike as a kid, did things go exactly to plan the first time you did it? What about the second, the third, the fiftieth?

Did you just throw your hands up and say, oh well I guess I will give up. Most likely no. You kept at it and kept at it and figured out how to do it and became good at it.

I don't get it. Never have, Never will. People are their own worst enemies.
I believe this is a deeper issue, and I think there are at least a few things which differentiate learning relationships with learning skills such as riding a bike.

Yes, in principle learning relationships can be thought of as a skill, and thus, failures can be used as learning experiences to improve.

However, with relationships, failures can hit someone more deeply, at their sense of self-worth.

The failure can be internalized rather than quickly learned from, depending on the person's mindset and emotional make-up at the time.

Which can create a negative feedback loop until the person breaks the downward cycle (assuming they ever do get unstuck).

When something is lacking in the relationship skills department, it can be overwhelming in a sense, because it's not always obvious what exactly is lacking and thus what to fix, or, if you think you know what your weaknesses are, it can be unclear how to improve them.

Another layer to it is personal growth can also be slow, which with the instant gratification many seek, might cause some to abandon a good course of action too soon because they think it wasn't actually the right one due to few results (yet).

The takeaway message is that when one gets stuck in a negative cycle, it can be difficult (but not impossible) to get out.

The solution is to do as you say, keep trying, to keep gradually improving and learning from one's mistakes. The earlier someone starts on that process the better.

And like you, I previously found it strange how some people struggle would so much with mental health. That was until I had my own tough experiences with it.
 
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BackInTheGame78

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I believe this is a deeper issue, and I think there are at least a few things which differentiate learning relationships with learning skills such as riding a bike.

Yes, in principle learning relationships can be thought of as a skill, and thus, failures can be used as learning experiences to improve.

However, with relationships, failures can hit someone more deeply, at their sense of self-worth.

The failure can be internalized rather than quickly learned from, depending on the person's mindset and emotional make-up at the time.

Which can create a negative feedback loop until the person breaks the downward cycle (assuming they ever do get unstuck).

When something is lacking in the relationship skills department, it can be overwhelming in a sense, because it's not always obvious what exactly is lacking and thus what to fix, or, if you think you know what your weaknesses are, it can be unclear how to improve them.

Another layer to it is personal growth can also be slow, which with the instant gratification many seek, might cause some to abandon a good course of action because they think it wasn't actually the right one due to few results (yet).

The takeaway message is that when one gets stuck in a negative cycle, it can be difficult (but not impossible) to get out.

Like you, I previously didn't understand why some people struggle so much with mental health. That was until I had my own tough experiences with it.
The bottom line is that unless someone is willing to take a good hard look in the mirror and assess themselves honestly and without their ego getting in the way, then it is unlikely they will get far.

If you can't be honest with yourself, you can't fix the issues you have because you aren't willing to believe they are actually issues.

Then you get into the blame game where it's always someone else's fault that something happened and never your own. And if you actually believe that, then what you are saying is you have no control of your life because nothing is your fault, and if you have no control over your life then how can you change it?

It's a slippery slope. People's egos are far too fragile these days for the most part and they would do well to get more tough love who call them on their bull****!t from wherever it comes from instead of more enablers that they surround themselves with who allow them to continue along their path and encourage it.
 

Canadian_Man

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The bottom line is that unless someone is willing to take a good hard look in the mirror and assess themselves honestly and without their ego getting in the way, then it is unlikely they will get far.

If you can't be honest with yourself, you can't fix the issues you have because you aren't willing to believe they are actually issues.

Then you get into the blame game where it's always someone else's fault that something happened and never your own. And if you actually believe that, then what you are saying is you have no control of your life because nothing is your fault, and if you have no control over your life then how can you change it?

It's a slippery slope. People's egos are far too fragile these days for the most part and they would do well to get more tough love from wherever it comes from instead of mor enablers that they surround themselves with who allow them to continue along their path and encourage it.
Agreed.

I also suspect tough love is more of what's needed in many of these cases
 

BackInTheGame78

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It's why I can viewed as a little harsh many times...I don't sugar coat stuff. Too many poople are mentally fragile and don't need more people allowing them to become even more fragile by enabling them. They need somebody to give them some harshness and reality.

Better a random Internet person than their own friends and family I suppose but it would be more effective coming from them.
 

GoodMan32

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Ah, the "I'll try to bias the audience first before asking the question in attempt to get the answer I want" trick.

You're going to do what you want.

You're just looking for others to justify your emotional decision.

And I keep reading "excuse excuse excuse" in your posts.

Yes I'm being intentionally hard on you, because I think you need it.

In regards to the excuse that seems to be your fall back position for continuing as you are ... If you have autism, then it's presumably "high functioning", given how and what you write.

It might require extra effort to improve yourself, and a different set of weaknesses to overcome than typical, but it's still possible.

Identifying with the label in such a manner that you let it hold you back is counter-productive.
Not trying to bias the audience; merely including relevant information.

Yeah, my case of ASD is high functioning (I found out I was on the spectrum back when they still differentiated between Asperger's and all-out autism. Psychiatrist said I have mild Asperger's).

In a way, the fact my case is mild hurts me even more. Since the average normie would never be able to tell I'm on the spectrum, they get freaked out by my social ineptitude (and apparent creepiness). Because as far as they can tell, I have no reason to be "off." They think I'm simply strange/dangerous (I've even had a woman compare me to Jeffrey Dahmer).

I remember a poster on here once told me I might as well inform women right off the bat that I'm on the spectrum (so they don't get freaked out when my spectrum behavior inevitably comes out). That's problematic too. A lot of normies view being on the spectrum as synonymous with being mentally challenged. I'd rather have normies think I'm strange than mentally challenged. I've never disclosed my spectrum status to any woman I've been interested in.
 

GoodMan32

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What did you learn from each failure and do differently when things didn't work? Or did you keep trying the same thing over and over again?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

The length of time doesn't matter. If you do something 20 times over 10 years, you could have learned the same thing as doing it 20 times over 2 weeks.

It's the number of attempts that count, not the length of time. Have you failed at least 1000 times at it? If not, you haven't done it enough. Keep going.

My guess is you haven't even failed 50 times over that 10 years.

Everyone has a different learning curve. Assuming you have done enough because you tried it x number of times isn't valid. You measure your progress and improvement incrementally and it won't be a straight line.

Also need to have realistic expectations.

You might never become Cassanova but you can definitely improve where you are at this point because it seems like you are pretty close to the bottom.
With how long ago this was, I don't really remember specifics. I just remember girls being grossed out if I expressed interest (or even if a girl so much as caught me checking her out). I was in high school during the MySpace era. I remember this girl my freshman year of high school where female friends of hers would leave her MySpace comments saying "He's into you? That sucks."

To answer your question, no, I'm pretty sure I haven't failed anywhere near a thousand times (although it's possible the number of failures is pretty high, as in well above 50, if you count gals on dating/hookup websites I struck out with).

Let's put it this way: If girls were that repulsed by me in high school, to where they would tell a female friend (right out in the open on the internet, where I could see) that it sucks she has to deal with me being into her, it's unlikely a different method of expressing interest in that girl would have given me different results.

I also remember another girl in high school where female friends of hers would leave her hurtful, but not quite as rude, MySpace comments about me.
 

GoodMan32

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The bottom line is that unless someone is willing to take a good hard look in the mirror and assess themselves honestly and without their ego getting in the way, then it is unlikely they will get far.

If you can't be honest with yourself, you can't fix the issues you have because you aren't willing to believe they are actually issues.

Then you get into the blame game where it's always someone else's fault that something happened and never your own. And if you actually believe that, then what you are saying is you have no control of your life because nothing is your fault, and if you have no control over your life then how can you change it?

It's a slippery slope. People's egos are far too fragile these days for the most part and they would do well to get more tough love who call them on their bull****!t from wherever it comes from instead of more enablers that they surround themselves with who allow them to continue along their path and encourage it.
I don't necessarily think it's anyone else's fault. I merely think it's an unfortunate fact I'm on the spectrum.
 

SW15

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Fair enough. In that case, I guess I'm in the same boat as the typical man (where I have to fail a lot online before I finally succeed). That being said, the fact still remains that I've had better luck online than I've had with making a move in person (which isn't saying much)
You're in the same boat as a typical man, except you've put your penis inside of more females than the typical man.

The typical male struggles to get attention from women and struggles to put together extended relationships. I realize that extended relationships aren't the goal of some men. The men who have that goal (majority of men) often fail with that. Statistics around male sexlessness prove are proof of this but not full proof. There are a lot of sexless or nearly sexless males in marriages.

Finding sex and relationships from both tech-based methods and real life methods are often difficult. The men who have it easiest with finding sex and relationships are men with a viable social circle that provided introductions and put in a good word prior to the introduction. Men depending on approaching strangers in real life or using tech-based methods have a more difficult path.

The type of man that gets social circle introductions isn't the type of man to ever use a forum like SoSuave.
 

Canadian_Man

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Not trying to bias the audience; merely including relevant information.
Uh huh.

Come back to this thread in a few years, and if you've grown much by then, you will read all you've said differently.


Yeah, my case of ASD is high functioning.

In a way, the fact my case is mild hurts me even more.
Here's the thing, I wouldn't be surprised if I could be diagnosed as having "high functioning" autism as well.

I've already been through much of the general thought patterns you currently have.

I've already improved upon many of my weaknesses that could have been attributed to "autism".

I'm telling you from experience, your current mindset is holding you back.

Your perceived weaknesses are not set in stone, they are not "fixed" and unchangeable.

Yes, our particular circumstances will vary in the fine details, however, the big picture looks roughly the same.


I remember a poster on here once told me I might as well inform women right off the bat that I'm on the spectrum (so they don't get freaked out when my spectrum behavior inevitably comes out). That's problematic too.
I agree that it's generally not a great idea to lead with "I have [high-functioning] autism [and that's why I'm a bit socially challenged]".

Not for the reason you think it's a bad idea though.

First, in the short term, even if someone has a deep enough intellectual understanding of what you're trying to convey with that and the implications of it, most people are going to react or respond to you emotionally, and not catch themselves with "oh right, that's because he has autism".

i.e., your disclaimer to them is not likely to make much of a difference in how the interactions play out

Further to that, as understanding as people can be, many will often do what they perceive to be in their best interest, and if they are continually having poor experiences with you, they will likely drift away.


Second, and more importantly, you are shifting the responsibility onto other people when you make such a statement. It's akin to saying "I have these social limitations and I need you to accommodate that", which is an attempt to unburden yourself from overcoming your "limitations". It would be your excuse playing out in another manner.


The most likely and frequent outcome of this course of action (i.e., falling back onto the "I have high functioning autism" excuse), likely will be for you to have poor experiences, which can further entrench your self-limiting beliefs.

The much higher leverage move you have is to acknowledge your weaknesses and improve upon them, rather than passively hope you meet the "right people" who "get you" and go along with your social "ineptitude".
 
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