Is going back to a woman that cheated ALWAYS beta?

[Billtx49]

If a man fails to screen for quality or settles for a self known low quality woman, he should not be surprised at what she may do, but regarding taking her back after she confirms she’s low quality by cheating, the following definition comes to mind:
“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
It’s not Alpha or Beta, the correct action is common sense combined with gut…

 

[BadBoy89]

Man B decides he wants to finally "settle down" with a women permanently. He's perfectly aware he could find himself in a "entanglement" at anytime but he accepts the risk.. he's been red pilled for man years and if he were to be cheated on, it would not shock him at all.

If he was red pilled he wouldn’t settle down.

If a woman disrespects a man he should just treat her as sex toy and never commit. There is no benefit to commitment. Unfortuntately Disney has brainwashed men to value love and companionship, women are much more practical in relationships.

On personal note, I was seeing this good looking women for quite a while. I treated her very well but didn’t trust her (I don’t trust any women). She wanted to move in together / marry and the whole shebang. I do pretty well and told her “OK, we can get married and I’ll treat you very well while we are together. But if we get divorced, you get the same thing that the guy you slept with in college gave you when you broke up.” Relationship was over in an instant.

Come on men.

 

[backseatjuan]

You see, if you are doing the going back it is beta. But if she comes back to you and you 'make her lick your ass' or something similar sexual but something she never done before or does usually, makebe take a piss on her, and then make her your once in a while fck buddy, then it's beta.

 

[fastlife]

All spot on and the emphasis on subjectivity is so important. It's never clearer than when you see their newest "catch" 10 years down the road lol

Yup yup. It's why you should never based your self-worth on the reactions of women. Even if you pull the baddest chick you've seen in your life and she's all about you, all it means is that your behavior triggered that response from her. It doesn't make you particularly special--and if that's not behavior that you can consistently demonstrate, then enjoy it while it lasts!

It's also why I lol at the guys who go on and on about LMS or looksmaxing or worrying about Chad or whatever. Of the hottest girls I've slept with that I've kept up with over the years, literally all of them have ended up with guys who, judging by external attributes, should never have had a shot with her. Sure, a few of them overplayed their hands and probably settled; but mostly these are guys they got with when they were still in their prime. It's funny to look back and think about how I thought I was the man at the time--only to see that the bar wasn't set particularly high.

 

[samspade]

I understand what you are saying. I’m saying it is a reality that doesn’t work.

Take for instance, “The Rational Male”, I’m a fan BTW.
You can’t understand the biological nature (trumps everything), on one hand and then talk about the endless game never ending in a marriage. Those two ideas are in conflict. True, good game keeps a plate spinning or involving new prospects. But we are talking about RELATIONSHIPS.

If biology, genetic disposition, can’t be altered and can’t be reasoned with, how can game carry into a relationship with extended effectiveness. It is illogical.

Men want children. This normally involves a LTR to facilitate. Game won’t help you. Nothing overrides biology. This is my point.
A man can have a FWB for YEARS!!!!!! But the second he commits...her biology takes over rather quickly. Ask any married man.

I see what you are saying. Believe me, I think monogamy makes little sense and in the long run is a real bytch to sustain.

But I don't see "game" (or whatever - let's call it carrying yourself as consistently and authentically high value) as a cheat code to stave off biology. It IS biology. I'm not suggesting men override anything. I'm saying they need to play their part.

Simply committing to a woman won't activate her urge to cheat. A woman will fight to keep a high value man in her life...even if she thinks he's cheated on her. You won't lose value simply by saying "I do," but plenty of men backslide after that and the moment she sees her value as above yours, that's when her biology tells her she can and should do better.

One of the big Sosuave tropes is "once she thinks she has you, she'll get bored." So don't ever let her think she 100% has you. Is this difficult in marriage? Of course, but just as someone won't love you more if you marry her, she won't love you less either if you're high value. Circling back to the OP's question, resigning yourself to her cheating being inevitable is lowering your own value in a major way, no matter how game-aware the guy is.

 

[SW15]

guys who go on and on about LMS or looksmaxing or worrying about Chad or whatever.

Looks Money Status and looksmaxing are both good ideas for attracting women and retaining relationships with them. For a woman, being with a guy with an impressive physique will make their 'ginas tingle, and that only helps the cause. Looksmaxing alone won't keep a relationship going forever, but it can help with initial attraction and extending the amount of time a relationship lasts. Looksmaxing in combination with a higher paying blue or white collar job should reduce the potential for bad outcomes in mating endeavors.

No man who has made great progress on looksmaxing should stay with a female adulterer. He'd be silly to do that since his physique would attract a new woman quickly in a normal environment.

As long as we have biased family courts, men are fighting an uphill battle in marriage. A losing battle. The only way to change this is for men to opt out of marriage.

I'm 37 and have never been married. I might be opting out of marriage.

Ever Married Data Set

I've attached data above to show what the odds of having been married at least once are at certain ages based on a couple of demographic variables. Data is current as of 2015.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Looks Money Status and looksmaxing are both good ideas for attracting women and retaining relationships with them. For a woman, being with a guy with an impressive physique will make their 'ginas tingle, and that only helps the cause. Looksmaxing alone won't keep a relationship going forever, but it can help with initial attraction and extending the amount of time a relationship lasts. Looksmaxing in combination with a higher paying blue or white collar job should reduce the potential for bad outcomes in mating endeavors.

No man who has made great progress on looksmaxing should stay with a female adulterer. He'd be silly to do that since his physique would attract a new woman quickly in a normal environment.

I think a man can do things to enable himself being her preferred "tool" to use for sex. On one of my TV shows the guy who had been "fumbling" the ball and losing attraction, did some things that made her get really wet.... He kept talking... She said to herself "I wish he would just quit talking so I can stay attracted".

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Well I am not saying it that way. It’s the wrong assertion.

IF it’s true that women have a dual sexual strategy (first part of what’s called hypergamy), and in my observation, they do, then you are looking at it in the wrong light.

She doesn’t say or think “ok, now I can relax now that I am solidly positioned, I can now have some sex guys.” That’s not how it works.

There are biological forces that play on her. She only goes by what she feels. These are biological signals. She can feel like total crap after she engages a man. AND she doesn’t even know why it happened. She puts herself into situations that are conducive to infidelity as a natural course of action. Even though she knows it’s wrong, she can’t stop herself. Some do of course.

there’s a whole plethora of phenomena that takes place and “reasons” she gives herself. Justifications form working backwards. She absolutely believes them. Fully. All because she doesn’t know why she cheated.

These are biological commands. Once she has her protection, safety and survival cared for, this biology activates. This is part of what some people inaccurately call hypergamy.

The game as I've observed it for some years with open eyes:
Female is dating. They date several these days. Most aren't fvcking all or most of the guys. Out of the guys she's dating there's one she really wants. He's usually on his purpose or living life his way. Doesn't want a woman. Occasionally he fvcks her but he doesn't want her. He's dealing with several other women a few he likes alot more. She gets treated like dirt and sex is to please him. To build up her bled down self esteem she hangs with other guys shes dating. She likes them as people but doesn't desire them. These guys make her feel better as they value her. Spend time energy and cash on her. She regains confidence and the cycle repeats. In the game its a bunch of men and women wanting people who don't want them. There are a bunch of non reciprocal friendships. A bunch of hierarchical grids.

 

[samspade]

Well I am not saying it that way. It’s the wrong assertion.

IF it’s true that women have a dual sexual strategy (first part of what’s called hypergamy), and in my observation, they do, then you are looking at it in the wrong light.

She doesn’t say or think “ok, now I can relax now that I am solidly positioned, I can now have some sex guys.” That’s not how it works.

There are biological forces that play on her. She only goes by what she feels. These are biological signals. She can feel like total crap after she engages a man. AND she doesn’t even know why it happened. She puts herself into situations that are conducive to infidelity as a natural course of action. Even though she knows it’s wrong, she can’t stop herself. Some do of course.

there’s a whole plethora of phenomena that takes place and “reasons” she gives herself. Justifications form working backwards. She absolutely believes them. Fully. All because she doesn’t know why she cheated.

These are biological commands. Once she has her protection, safety and survival cared for, this biology activates. This is part of what some people inaccurately call hypergamy.

Okay, well, we disagree a little. I think what you're saying can and most certainly does happen, but I don't believe it's a given. If she gets everything she needs from one man, the "command" is satisfied. Like I said, it's all about how she sees your value - above hers, or below.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Okay, well, we disagree a little. I think what you're saying can and most certainly does happen, but I don't believe it's a given. If she gets everything she needs from one man, the "command" is satisfied. Like I said, it's all about how she sees your value - above hers, or below.

Agree. There are some oddballs in the game who will break this rule if your boundaries aren't tight as a man. So the babe gets with you knows you have value. Due to her jealous nature and black heart, she plays a bunch of games on you to attempt to get you to set in positions that cause you to devalue yourself.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

You’re not wrong. She needs that guy for survival. Absolutely. It’s part of her imperative. Once she has him....he’s no longer THAT guy(sex guy). This is self evident. Having isn’t as much fun as wanting.
But I digress.

Can we just be a selfish cheater and keep a "main woman" around, and thus her commands for desireing a man who doesn't really want or need them be satisfied? LOL

 

[RickTheToad]

Looking to have a thoughtful discussion here.

For the sake of argument, let's just classify men into 2 groups (I know there is more, but I want to keep it simple)

A. ) Red pilled man. Lives a bachelor lifestyle. Plans to sleep with as many different women as he possibly can before he dies. Has no intention of "settling down".

B. ) Red pilled man but finds himself in relationships often. He's gone through most of his adult life casual dating women, but he does it for long spurts at a time, dating women sometimes months or years. He thinks of relationships as something temporary, and tries to enjoy it while it lasts.

Now let's fast forward a few years.. both are much older and doing the same thing. Man A is still fvcking random women and loving it. Man B is also getting his fair share of play, just more sporadic.

Man B decides he wants to finally "settle down" with a women permanently. He's perfectly aware he could find himself in a "entanglement" at anytime but he accepts the risk.. he's been red pilled for man years and if he were to be cheated on, it would not shock him at all.

So the day comes. She cheats on him, and he finds out. He's not shocked, or surprised. He knew this day would come, and he's had years to prepare for it. He realizes what is happening and he's completely NUMB to it.. completely emotionless. He's getting old now, exhausted of dating new woman, and genuinely enjoys the company of the girl he's with. He's willing to look past the infidelities and knows she is biologically programmed this way, and she can't help it.

So the final question remains.. given the knowledge above, would you consider Man B a beta/cuck?

Are all men who go back to a cheating women beta, or are their variables involved? If so, what variables?

Is it the way a man handles an "entanglement" that makes him beta?

IMO, the example above is probably the most "alpha" way you could go about returning to a cheating gf.. or is the mere act of returning to a cheater completely void of anything alpha and automatically beta no matter what?

I'm interested to hear your thoughts. And no, this is not about me or anyone I know. Just a hypothetical scenario.

Never go back to a person who cheated on you. That's just f cked up on so many levels. If a dude wants to settle down, then do so, just not with the female who cheated on you.

 

[Lookatu]

I'm not suggesting men override anything. I'm saying they need to play their part.

Simply committing to a woman won't activate her urge to cheat. A woman will fight to keep a high value man in her life...even if she thinks he's cheated on her. You won't lose value simply by saying "I do," but plenty of men backslide after that and the moment she sees her value as above yours, that's when her biology tells her she can and should do better.

One of the big Sosuave tropes is "once she thinks she has you, she'll get bored." So don't ever let her think she 100% has you. Is this difficult in marriage? Of course, but just as someone won't love you more if you marry her, she won't love you less either if you're high value. Circling back to the OP's question, resigning yourself to her cheating being inevitable is lowering your own value in a major way, no matter how game-aware the guy is.

I agree with this and I've been married over 13 years.
The main advice I give to guys wanting to settle down and go into LTR or Marriage is to find someone that loves YOU more than you love them. This makes things infinitely easier to manage. The con to this is you may get the feeling sometime that you settled(it could be male hypergamy?). The pro's to this is an easier, stress free life that is sustainable for the long haul.

But regardless as samspade said, you always got to show worth/value and still keep being a strong male figure to her by leading, guiding, supporting, protecting, consoling, disciplining, etc.

Marriage a lot of times turn men into pvssies or into another woman. Don't do that guys and be aware of that.

 

[samspade]

Feel free to test it.

I have, though without a control. Have you never been in a LTR?

 

[samspade]

Almost 20 years. Fairly easy breakup. She was wrecked but I had learned enough over time. Added to many other women I’ve been with.

Well that's good - so you know how to lead in a relationship. You seem like you're a high value guy who knows what he wants. The rest is really not worth too much thought IMO. I lead, she follows, I care a little bit less, she cares a little bit more. Anything that upsets that balance means I walk. As a man I own my circumstances and decisions, and this has resulted in rewarding relationships (brief and long term). She can do what she wants, but not with me if I don't want to. But my experience is usually that her "imperative" is to keep me. I can't speak for everyone, though.

Most men (even / especially red pill men) take women wayyy too seriously.

 

[bat soup]

He should downgrade her to f buddy. That's what I always do.

 

[Harry Wilmington IDS]

I disagree with the premise in the first place, that women are designed to cheat. I feel the same way when people say men are designed to cheat. Women are designed to be loyal to their best option - therefore, if, in her eyes, you are the best option, she would not cheat and risk losing you. If, over time, the man becomes beta or a lesser version of himself than he was when they first met, then she may be more open to cheating.