Is Getting a MBA a Waste of Time? | 5 Alternatives To An MBA | Real-World Business Education

BeTheChange

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Yes and no.

To get into some industries you need to have connections and pedigree.

A good MBA provides you with this.

By that I mean Top 10

US

Harvard
Stanford
Wharton
Kellogg
MIT
Chicago
Columbia
Tuck

International

London Business School
INSEAD

It's one of these or BUST.

I'm probably going to do an MBA towards the end of 2017 (Class of 2019)
 
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Tenacity

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Yes and no.

To get into some industries you need to have connections and pedigree.

A good MBA provides you with this.

By that I mean Top 10

US

Harvard
Stanford
Wharton
Kellogg
MIT
Chicago
Columbia
Tuck

International

London Business School
INSEAD

It's one of these or BUST.

I'm probably going to do an MBA towards the end of 2017 (Class of 2019)
Don't forget to include that for those US programs, the cost is over $200,000.
 

BeTheChange

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Don't forget to include that for those US programs, the cost is over $200,000.
And what do you propose the NPV of those US programs are Mr.Positive?

Average annual salary 3 years after graduating: $150k - $180k.
 
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Tenacity

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And what do you propose the NPV of those US programs are Mr.Positive?

Average annual salary 3 years after graduating: $150k - $180k.
It depends on what field the person goes into, i.e., if they can get into something related to Investment Banking. For those that can't, they will quickly find out that they could have utilized much cheaper routes to obtain an MBA.

The value of the MBA as a whole though just isn't what it used to be. It's all about the network and in my opinion, if you are looking to get into I-Banking you need to break in during undergrad, look to get a full-time position, and have the company pay for your MBA tuition at one of these schools listed.

I would not advise anybody to go into $200,000 plus debt for an MBA program today. Only go if it's free or if the tuition is significantly discounted for you.
 

BeTheChange

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It depends on what field the person goes into, i.e., if they can get into something related to Investment Banking. For those that can't, they will quickly find out that they could have utilized much cheaper routes to obtain an MBA.
If you didn't have a realistic chance of I-banking, consultancy, or management at a blue chip post MBA, then you won't get into these programs in the first place.

The value of the MBA as a whole though just isn't what it used to be. It's all about the network and in my opinion, if you are looking to get into I-Banking you need to break in during undergrad, look to get a full-time position, and have the company pay for your MBA tuition at one of these schools listed.
Bullsh*t. If you actually worked in the industry you'd know this was nonsense.

The value of the average degree isn't worth as much. However I don't hear too many Cambridge graduates making the same claim. Quality at the top stays consistent.

I would not advise anybody to go into $200,000 plus debt for a MBA program today. Only go if it's free or if the tuition is significantly discounted for you.
Sub top 10, yes. Otherwise, still worth it depending on your career goals.
 

Tenacity

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If you didn't have a realistic chance of I-banking, consultancy, or management at a blue chip post MBA, then you won't get into these programs in the first place.
Realistic "chance" and actually making it "in" are two different things.


Bullsh*t. If you actually worked in the industry you'd know this was nonsense.

The value of the average degree isn't worth as much. However I don't hear too many Cambridge graduates making the same claim. Quality at the top stays consistent.
It's quality IF you get into I-Banking with a high level position, if you don't, then it wasn't a good investment. My recommendation is to have people focus on getting into I-Banking very early and try to get into a good B-School during undergrad on some type of scholarship. Once you get in, seek to get an internship and get an offer upon graduation. From there, you should get offers from the company you represent to go back to complete the MBA for free in exchange for "X" number of years working for the firm.

For those interested, this is a free e-book that covers breaking into I-Banking: http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/
 

BeTheChange

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Realistic "chance" and actually making it "in" are two different things.

92% of MBAs from the top 10 I mentioned have jobs within 3 months of graduating. And of those remaining 8% many are likely to be delaying employment for personal reasons - travelling, fundraising for ventures, etc.


It's quality IF you get into I-Banking with a high level position, if you don't, then it wasn't a good investment. My recommendation is to have people focus on getting into I-Banking very early and try to get into a good B-School during undergrad on some type of scholarship. Once you get in, seek to get an internship and get an offer upon graduation. From there, you should get offers from the company you represent to go back to complete the MBA for free in exchange for "X" number of years working for the firm.

For those interested, this is a free e-book that covers breaking into I-Banking: http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/

You are aware there are great (better) jobs outside of investment banking? See this is another reason why it's quite obvious you don't really have any experience in this area or associate with people who do (high finance, consultancy, blue chip management, etc). No offense. Just an observation and the reason your advice on this topic isn't really valid.

Furthermore many people do an MBA for a career switch, rather than a lateral move so getting your current employer to pay for it and in doing so locking yourself into another X number of years at the same employer post graduation often defeats the purpose. In fact if you start in IB, do an MBA and then end up back in IB, that's often seen as a failure. Again, something you'd know if you associated with those circles.
 

Tenacity

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92% of MBAs from the top 10 I mentioned have jobs within 3 months of graduating. And of those remaining 8% many are likely to be delaying employment for personal reasons - travelling, fundraising for ventures, etc.
Post a link to the stats you just quoted.


You are aware there are great (better) jobs outside of investment banking?
That justify a $200,000 degree investment? Like what? I mentioned I-Banking specifically, but the real focus is on any type of equity trading, investment or management type of position. That's why you go to a Top MBA, it's the networking aspect to get into one of these related positions as those positions usually recruit directly from the top ranked institutions during undergrad and grad.


See this is another reason why it's quite obvious you don't really have any experience in this area or associate with people who do (high finance, consultancy, blue chip management, etc). No offense. Just an observation and the reason your advice on this topic isn't really valid.
Excuse me sir, but number one, I have an MBA. Number two, I am networked/linked in to everything happening in the I-Banking, equity trading and management world based on my current industry/position which I've been apart of for close to 10 years. I know a lot about the industry, the space as well as how to achieve the real value from an MBA program.

Damn, why can't I just have a regular conversation with you dude? Every discussion you have to throw out these personal attacks that aren't even called for. Just have a regular damn discussion about MBA Programs my man, it's not that serious.


Furthermore many people do an MBA for a career switch, rather than a lateral move so getting your current employer to pay for it and in doing so locking yourself into another X number of years at the same employer post graduation often defeats the purpose.
It depends on what said "purpose" is. Why would someone go back to get an MBA at one of the most expensive schools in the country? What is the end goal? If they are looking to work in I-Banking or equity management, as I SAID, they are going to have to be recruited for the most part. They could spend the $200,000 and hope they get recruited, or they could follow my strategy and get recruited prior, have the company pay for their MBA and work for said company for the next 5 years or so based on the deal on the table.

A lot of people will tell you that an MBA isn't worth what it used to be unless you are going for certain types of exclusive "jobs" related to or around I-Banking. Why do I know? Because I'm a part of the same MBA professional clubs and associations, as those MBAs from the schools you listed.

The guy in the video that was posted is going over a lot of the same reasons why people don't value the MBA as much anymore.
 

BeTheChange

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85.9% of Top Ten graduates had job offers at graduation, while an impressive 95.4% had offers three months later. The numbers for the Top 25 schools were nearly as good: 83.9% had offers at commencement, while 94.2% received offers three months after graduation.

In 2012, 92 per cent of LBS graduates found work just three months after graduation.

http://poetsandquants.com/2014/12/08/best-worst-2014-mba-job-placement-at-top-schools/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...-How-an-MBA-can-boost-your-employability.html

Note that in 2012 much of Europe and the USA were in recession. That's right. Sorry the reality of the world doesn't conform to your negative view. Top MBAs are almost certainly a good investment depending on your career goals.

Your second point supports my argument.

By your own admission you went to an unranked program for your MBA. That's like the guy graduating from a community college telling a Harvard alumni his degree is useless. I'm not trying to insult you, but simply provide context to the discussion so anyone reading this thread can make an educated decision based on facts rather than speculation.

Your "strategy" is pointless for 99% of people actually wanting to do an MBA. As I said already many people do an MBA for a career switch, rather than a lateral move so getting your current employer to pay for it and in doing so locking yourself into another X number of years at the same employer post graduation often defeats the purpose. In fact if you start in IB, do an MBA and then end up back in IB, that's often seen as a failure. Again, something you'd know if you associated with those circles.

The MBA that you and many others did was probably not worth the paper it was written on, but the Wharton MBA alumni is not operating on the same playing field, which is why it needs to be stressed that if you can't get into a global top 10 (and at an absolute stretch top 15/20) then don't bother.
 

Tenacity

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My question is, when you talk about they are looking for a career change, a change into what other than equity trading, management, I-Banking area?

And yes, my MBA was unranked, all of my degrees were free (paid for through scholarships and grants), that's the only reason I grabbed it. If I had to pay for one of my degrees, I would have just got my Accounting degree and called it a day.

But nevertheless, I am a part of the same MBA Networks of guys from the Top 10 and the information I'm presenting is based on said relationships. Because I went to an unranked MBA program does not disqualify the information I'm presenting.

Also, what's wrong with community college? That's a way to reduce down your degree acquisition costs. I'm not even sure why you would put out a rationale that people who graduate from Top 10 are somehow "smarter" than others when we are all learning the same information, Accounting is Accounting no matter where you go just as long as the College you choose is Regionally Accredited.

Now they are more likely to have a better network with access to exclusive jobs. However, with the age of LinkedIn, Chamber of Commerce, all of the Professional Associations, I don't see why guys can't create their own network without needing to spend $200,000 - $250,000 for one.

At the end of the day, if someone is going to spend $200,000 on a degree, I would suggest they do their own independent research and make sure they can make whatever "career change" successfully with an ROI that they COULD NOT have received from a less expensive MBA. If you are going to spend $200,000 to apply for the same jobs that the $50,000 and under MBA is applying for, then in my opinion that wasn't a good decision.

That $200,000 degree better give you EXCLUSIVE access to jobs that nobody else has access to, i.e., jobs related to I-Banking and equity management.
 
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BeTheChange

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Good luck trying to get into Goldman Sachs, Google or General Electric with a degree from your local community college.

All of what you've said above (particularly your last post) is so far off the mark I'm convinced you must be trolling.

If not I genuinely feel sorry for you. You're incredibly misguided. For example an unranked MBA isn't even worth the opportunity cost of salary forgone.

Either way, I see no use in continuing this conversation.
 

Tenacity

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Good luck trying to get into Goldman Sachs, Google or General Electric with a degree from your local community college.
Number one, I only brought up community college because you were trying to insinuate that individuals who used community college for their first 2 years (Associates Degree) was somehow subpar in terms of educational quality, I disagree with that wholeheartedly because that's just flat out wrong.

Number two, the purpose of community college is to reduce down the cost of the first 2 years of college and then transfer into a "higher name" university for the bachelor's degree program, you don't stop at community college.

Number three, Google doesn't just hire from the Top 10 anymore, and companies like General Electric don't require Top 10 either.

The ONLY place left in the country that requires you to go to Top 10, are for positions related to I-Banking and Equity Management due to the way those firms hire. If you are going to go to Top 10, it should be for positions related to this industry and I advise you TRY to get the degree paid for in some capacity without taking $250,000 in debt to pay for it due to the RISK that you don't "cut it" within the industry.

For further resources on this topic for those reading, I recommend:

- http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/ to learn all about the Equity/I-Banking related industry including how to get in, the reality of the industry itself, etc.

- Also look at the book by Mariana Zanetti called "The MBA Bubble", she is going to give you an honest look at the value and market of the Top 10 MBA right now.


All of what you've said above (particularly your last post) is so far off the mark I'm convinced you must be trolling.

If not I genuinely feel sorry for you. You're incredibly misguided. For example an unranked MBA isn't even worth the opportunity cost of salary forgone.
No, just say you are misinformed over the scope of the entire market, you speak only from the perspective of a Top 10 Ivy Grad. A couple of additional points here before you go though (seeing as you claim you have no interest in continuing this discussion):

- If you have a scholarship/grant to attend a lower ranked regionally accredited MBA program, GRAB IT. To say that a non-Top 10 master's degree (which can help you qualify for 99% of other management positions in the job market other than I-Banking/Equity Management positions) has no value is a completely stupid AND elitist thing to say BeTheChange. Most management positions are requiring individuals to come to the table with a Master's Degree, so if you have the opportunity (like I did) to grab it for FREE, then do it. It's a "check off the box".

- You don't have to STOP working while you complete the Master's Degree, there are a variety of options today that allow you to complete the program while continuing to work, manage your family, etc., thus, there would be no opportunity cost wasted.
 

yuppee

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so dont pick a master's that is "for the most part". IF you can get straight A's in a bachelor's of nursing study program, 150k per year is waiting for you in 2 more years, with a masters as an anesthetist. That's as much as many GP MD's get. while saving yourself the "extra" 6 years of study, internship, residency, the extra 100k so spent, etc.

Also, your patients, for the most part, wont be complaining to or about you. They'll be unconscious, dead, or happy with their surgery, or blaming the surgeon, or the anesthesioligist, not you.
 

BeTheChange

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One of the companies I worked for paid for my MBA, and a year ago I was hired to take part in a leadership development program at a global top ten investment bank and really enjoy the work. .
How are you finding the life of an Associate/VP compared to law?

I got out before then, but Associates seem to be having a pretty tough time at the moment.
 
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