is being called "nice guy" always bad?

[ne0phyte]

i can see this is definitely a somewhat heated issue. from my experience, i agree with f283000 - that women these days really don't appreciate kindness (they just see it as afc supplication). i had good parents and was raised with good morals, so a lot of the "nice" things that i do, i just do. Yet when i do one nice thing for someone, it seems like the other girls in my class instantly classify me as a nice guy.

We all know that being a "jerk" gets you more girls, but i really do believe it's because jerks know what they want and are open about it, not because women really like *******s. Still, I've been trying to be more selfish and less nice. i agree that the modern woman actually distrusts kindness. what a world we live in right?

 

[mahoney]

people (not just girls) distrust kindness because too often it comes with implicit strings attached (and is therefore not 'kindness' at all)

 

[f283000]

Meh, this sort of thing is overstated on this forum. There may be some basis for it, but it's not strictly true. Most women who respond to that sort of thing have some sort of self esteem issue. Do you really want the kind of woman who would be attracted to a convict? I'll pass.

Are you sure? We could say this is purely based on a woman's hardwiring. From ancient times women have gravitated toward the alpha male of the pack. The way we treat women now is 100% better than what it used to be.

Maybe it's not a generalization but just simple science. Maybe women are just hardwired to be dominated and be used as objects as in the past compared to how they are treated now.

 

[AlexDP]

people (not just girls) distrust kindness because too often it comes with implicit strings attached (and is therefore not 'kindness' at all)

Bingo. Being nice, because you're being nice however, is very much okay. But you should only be nice because you are that way, not because you have an angle. And trust me, people will know if you have an angle.

 

[zekko]

Are you sure? We could say this is purely based on a woman's hardwiring. From ancient times women have gravitated toward the alpha male of the pack. The way we treat women now is 100% better than what it used to be.

Maybe it's not a generalization but just simple science. Maybe women are just hardwired to be dominated and be used as objects as in the past compared to how they are treated now.

I agree women like to be dominated, but an alpha male is not the same thing as a jerk. A jerk is a "foolish, rude, or contemptible person" according to thefreedictionary.com.

Women often end up with jerks because they are passive - they wait to be approached. The jerk has no qualms about approaching the girl because he doesn't have the humility or intellect to be self conscious. Then the woman tends to get attached after they have sex with a guy. Women like guys who are bold and not afraid to take action. But you don't have to be a jerk to be bold.

I hate that PUAs use the term "nice guy" to describe losers. They do this most likely as a marketing tool to bring guys in ("hey, I'm a nice guy, poor me, nice guys finish last"). Nice simply means you have some consideration for others, which is a good thing. The PUA term describes a boring, needy, desperate, supplicating, clinging, simpering wimp. What is so nice about that? Nothing that I can see.

Bottom line is that out in the real world, I see regular people hooking up all the time. The guys aren't all jerks, you don't have to be an @sshole to hook up. Maybe you can get by with it in high school, but generally if you're an @sshole that doesn't know how to deal with people you're not even going to get a job, and if you do you won't last long.

It's a shame that so much of the pickup community wants young guys to think that the only way they can be successful with women is to be an @sshole. That the highest thing to aspire to is to be a jerk. This is simply BS. Women will respond to boldness and aggression, and some C&F, but you don't have to be a jerk to show that. Check out something like The Flawless Natural by RSD's Tim. He shows you how to get with girls, and never once resorts to @sshole game.