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Interviewing for a job is as dystopian as dating

MatureDJ

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Employers are now keeping applicants as orbiters: :rolleyes:
Jessica describes her recent marathon interview process as basically having a “second job.” As for the actual job in question, she didn’t end up getting it. A week after her last interview, Jessica followed up with the recruiter and learned the organization was moving forward with another candidate. “They probably wanted to go with the other person all along but wanted me as a backup,” she said.
 

anonymous12345

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As far as I know, that's been the case for long. Companies have a set of candidates for a position and try to figure out which one is best. Nothing wrong with that.
 

SW15

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I have had multiple distinct job searches since finished my MBA 15 years ago, just as the Great Recession was starting. During those 15 years, I have interviewed as a new graduate, as an employed person looking to switch jobs, and as an unemployed person between jobs.

Interviewing in 2008 was a horrible experience. That was the worst experience of them all. I didn't have a lot of experience, I had a weak professional network, and the economy was in the toilet. Additionally, by 2008, almost all of job search was already based on online applications.

Applying for jobs online is similar to trying to arrange first dates on dating websites and swipe apps. The employers are a lot like women on swipe apps. They are often unreasonably fussy.

Going to in-person networking events is a lot like approaching strangers or going to structured singles events.


There isn't a direct equivalent to approaching strangers in-person in job search. It's essentially impossible to show up to places of employment in person and pitch a hiring manager in white collar work, though it may be possible in certain manual labor/blue collar roles or even McJobs.

Getting a McJob isn't too difficult because a lot of people don't want McJob. The far more difficult jobs to get are white collar ones. Even getting a low level white collar job that doesn't pay well and doesn't have a lot of responsibility is a big effort.

It is possible to send unsolicited emails or DMs on LinkedIn to hiring managers in white collar work, which is the rough equivalent of trying to slide into DMs to arrange first dates/get laid on Instagram.

Having a good professional network is a lot like having a good social circle. Getting networked into job interviews is the same as having a personal life connection that arranges a first date. It's going to be an all-around better experience.

In job interviewing, being a woman ensures preferential treatment too. It's that not that difficult for a woman to get a job stripping or bartending/waiting tables in a breastaurant so long as she isn't fat. In white collar work, a lot of white collar roles like to hire attractive women for B2B sales roles or even B2C sales roles. Women have an easier time getting hired for marketing roles compared to men.

Women are also less likely to get laid off. When white collar layoffs happen, companies do everything they can to prevent women and minorities from getting laid off. If you're a minority and a female, you're doubly protected from layoff.
 
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kavi

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White colloar job search sucks. Maybe men should look to McJob + Side Hussle, I think that could be more enjoyable for alot of men.

Why would a guy even want to compete with women for white collar work. It is demeaning to be interviewing for stupid white collar jobs unless it is v technical like programming or something and even then its lame.

Women value white collar work - it is a feminine thing now to care about having a job and career. Anytime I see a guy in a corporate environment esp a guy who cares about his career and puts effort into it I am thinking this guy is gonna be weak and have no Game.
 

SW15

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White colloar job search sucks. Maybe men should look to McJob + Side Hussle, I think that could be more enjoyable for alot of men.
Mostly true. White collar job searching sucks and the jobs themselves aren't that much better than the searches. Most white collar work isn't gratifying and is just done to pay the bills/maintain a lifestyle. Men doing white collar jobs are often doing them to have possessions to impress women (if they are unattached) or to keep the current woman (if they are attached/married).

Why would a guy even want to compete with women for white collar work. It is demeaning to be interviewing for stupid white collar jobs unless it is v technical like programming or something and even then its lame.
True. Rollo Tomassi would say that's because of the gynocentric social order.

Up until the early to mid 1970s, the USA had enough factory/manufacturing jobs to make college not necessary for men. Early to mid 20th Century K-12 education was designed for preparing people for basic factory/manufacturing work. To this day, K-12 education hasn't done a good job adjusting to broader economic changes. Eventually this type of work got outsourced/offshored and the jobs that remained in the USA were either McJobs, white collar worker, and some skilled trades work (plumbing, HVAC, electricians, welders, etc).

So many fewer people went to college up until roughly 1975-1980. After 1975-1980, college enrollments took off.

When I was in high school in the late 1990s/early 2000s, I was considering my life path and I chose the bachelor's degree + plan in life. If I didn't pursue a bachelor's degree, it is likely that I would have been working in retail stores and restaurants. I didn't have much interest or natural skill sets in some of the trades. I also pursued a rather basic degree path as my education ended with a Master's in Business Administration (MBA). Both BA/BS Business degrees and MBAs are popular degrees because they are widely accepted by a lot of employers in white collar spaces.

Women value white collar work - it is a feminine thing now to care about having a job and career. Anytime I see a guy in a corporate environment esp a guy who cares about his career and puts effort into it I am thinking this guy is gonna be weak and have no Game.
Most men who work in white collar spaces are big time beta males. They are even weaker beta males than the beta males who worked office jobs in the 1960s-1980s. Those 1960s-1980s office working betas are now retirees or dead people.

The white collar working space has feminized since the 1960s. If you watched "Mad Men", masculine behavior that was acceptable in the workplace then has been considered unacceptable since some point between the 1970s-1990s. Women started coming into the white collar work force in big numbers between 1965-1985. The women who started coming into the work force during those years almost exclusively chose white collar work. Few women have engaged in manual labor/blue collar work during the last 55 years. Women wanted to imitate the men in business attire, originally suits.

White collar work spaces have been de-masculinized and that's a bad thing. I have noticed in certain white collar jobs I've had that there wasn't a big time sexual vibe in the workplace. It wasn't a place with raging testosterone. I have seen that as a bad thing. There are still a few lines of work (all blue collar/manual labor) where testosterone levels are decent and men can be men. Men can't be men in white collar spaces, unlike the "Mad Men" era, where men in offices were free to actually be men.
 

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corsica

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Women are also less likely to get laid off. When white collar layoffs happen, companies do everything they can to prevent women and minorities from getting laid off. If you're a minority and a female, you're doubly protected from layoff.
In the end of the day, they (company) need to get things done. If the number (of minorities) goes above the required quota, they will cut the dead weight.
 

anonymous12345

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The most dumb ass sh1t I've experienced in this area is this:

Google wanted me for my programming skills, though I didn't have any education then. With a master's degree in finance, banks aren't interested in me on technical side because I don't have the formal education on IT. Really impressive box ticking.
 

Xenom0rph

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That's actually a great point. Many years ago when I was a young guy with not-so-much experience I interviewed with companies that made me jump through hoops:

1) Initial interview with hiring manager and some team members
2) 2nd interview with manager (again) and a higher up
3) Made me go take proficiency tests at those testing centers

Then they ignored me an hired someone else... 6 months later I found out the whoever they hired quit and now they'd like me to come back and do the same interview process all over again...

BS..... it's been 6 months and I've moved on.

I learned the hard way that if the job makes you jump through hoops then it's probably a sh/t company with sh/t culture.

Companies that do this usually have idiotic managers that work everyone to death while they themselves goof off.

If you have a college education in STEM, have the necessary skills, can present yourself well (well-dressed and well-mannered) then don't put up with bullsh/t from recruiters or the hiring company.
 

MatureDJ

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I have had multiple distinct job searches since finished my MBA 15 years ago, just as the Great Recession was starting. During those 15 years, I have interviewed as a new graduate, as an employed person looking to switch jobs, and as an unemployed person between jobs.

Interviewing in 2008 was a horrible experience. That was the worst experience of them all. I didn't have a lot of experience, I had a weak professional network, and the economy was in the toilet. Additionally, by 2008, almost all of job search was already based on online applications.

Applying for jobs online is similar to trying to arrange first dates on dating websites and swipe apps. The employers are a lot like women on swipe apps. They are often unreasonably fussy.

Going to in-person networking events is a lot like approaching strangers or going to structured singles events.


There isn't a direct equivalent to approaching strangers in-person in job search. It's essentially impossible to show up to places of employment in person and pitch a hiring manager in white collar work, though it may be possible in certain manual labor/blue collar roles or even McJobs.

Getting a McJob isn't too difficult because a lot of people don't want McJob. The far more difficult jobs to get are white collar ones. Even getting a low level white collar job that doesn't pay well and doesn't have a lot of responsibility is a big effort.

It is possible to send unsolicited emails or DMs on LinkedIn to hiring managers in white collar work, which is the rough equivalent of trying to slide into DMs to arrange first dates/get laid on Instagram.

Having a good professional network is a lot like having a good social circle. Getting networked into job interviews is the same as having a personal life connection that arranges a first date. It's going to be an all-around better experience.

In job interviewing, being a woman ensures preferential treatment too. It's that not that difficult for a woman to get a job stripping or bartending/waiting tables in a breastaurant so long as she isn't fat. In white collar work, a lot of white collar roles like to hire attractive women for B2B sales roles or even B2C sales roles. Women have an easier time getting hired for marketing roles compared to men.

Women are also less likely to get laid off. When white collar layoffs happen, companies do everything they can to prevent women and minorities from getting laid off. If you're a minority and a female, you're doubly protected from layoff.
I went 0-14 for interviews in 2009. :(
 

MatureDJ

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That's actually a great point. Many years ago when I was a young guy with not-so-much experience I interviewed with companies that made me jump through hoops:

1) Initial interview with hiring manager and some team members
2) 2nd interview with manager (again) and a higher up
3) Made me go take proficiency tests at those testing centers

Then they ignored me an hired someone else... 6 months later I found out the whoever they hired quit and now they'd like me to come back and do the same interview process all over again...
I think I would E-mail the CEO and say that I would consider taking the job, but that I have already interviewed, so he should have already have determined if I am a desirable applicant. Who knows - maybe this ballsy move would impress the CEO enough to say, "hire this man".
 

anonymous12345

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I'm currently applying for jobs. What annoys me is the "approach burnout" from it, and it's pretty similar to approaching in game. You find an employer, get an impression and psyche yourself up for writing a good letter, understand the company, and so forth. Afterwards you get some polite bs ;-)
 

kavi

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I think I would much rather work as a barista or something than a proper white collar career. Barista would also let keep your energy both mental, physical and emotional high as compared say being an accountant or some ****. If you lose your barista job no big deal, go retail, whatever.

I think most men only really need to make enough money to have a decent room, or pay your way if you wanna share a flat with a woman. That is not hard to achieve with a mcjob.

In the future I would like Men are going to have to take more of 'backseat' in jobs and careers because in the next few generation women are still going to be taking over much of the 'work' in our economies, the trend of women entering the workplace esp white collar full time work is only going to increase and no one will say anything if women seriously out-earn men, like they did when men were earning more.

Money and Jobs and Earning is better suited to women than men, women make very good menial, white-collar workers. Men are better at more intense, competitive, innovation, high-value work. We need an economy where we separate men and women because we dont want men and women competing and both putting max time into work. Right now too many people are working too much, and that caused less free-time, social issues, inflation, over-competitiveness at work etc.
 

BackInTheGame78

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I'm currently applying for jobs. What annoys me is the "approach burnout" from it, and it's pretty similar to approaching in game. You find an employer, get an impression and psyche yourself up for writing a good letter, understand the company, and so forth. Afterwards you get some polite bs ;-)
Stop writing letters. I have never wrote a single letter to any employer in my life. Focus on being better in interviews and making good impressions on people and being likeable and be confident in your abilities and articulate how you can help them solve their problems.

That's what gets you hired. From someone who has been pretty much offered every job I've ever interviewed for.
 

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Jake_Gyllenhaal69

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I think I would much rather work as a barista or something than a proper white collar career. Barista would also let keep your energy both mental, physical and emotional high as compared say being an accountant or some ****. If you lose your barista job no big deal, go retail, whatever.
What do you do for work now?

Men are better at more intense, competitive, innovation, high-value work.
A barista doesn't qualify as any of these lol.
 

kavi

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What do you do for work now?
Nothing much atm. My family know some girls who I plan on marrying hopefully soon. If I am living and dealing with multiple women, I am mainly doing a social thing. They have jobs and bring money, laywer, accountant etc. Its not gonna be worth it for me to work a job, my time is better spent dealing with whatever this 'group' needs to get done, and working on social and community stuff, or side hustles.

So I am just living either at my parents or my brothers house, they are tolerant because they know the girls and they know I brought value to them, and they want me to be this guy so they know its 'beneath' me to do a FT white collar job. I do work PT every now and then, for my food, clothing, going out etc, in Hospitality, and thinking of getting an easy pt job as a barista soon.

I have a background in Computer Science and held a professional white collar job in a Bank Tech department for many years. I can also make websites etc. Might turn that into a side hustle. Also, building a community and doing political stuff, another side hustle that hopefully will turn full-time.

But I will never go back to white collar office work. Would rather work as a barista. Maybe its worse in London I dont know.

A barista doesn't qualify as any of these lol.
Side Hustle
 

kavi

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I say this because the more men pull out of the ft white collar working environment the better it is gonna be for everyone. It is just too competitice and chaotic out there right now.

Since women entered the workforce, men cannot be judged on what job they have or how much money they make. This is either for men or women, men and women cannot and should not ever compete, cos you cannot be manly if you attach your masculine value to making 100K a yr when even women are making that much.
 

SW15

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I say this because the more men pull out of the ft white collar working environment the better it is gonna be for everyone. It is just too competitice and chaotic out there right now.
More prime age (25-54) working men are pulling out of the workforce because they aren't getting laid. Why bother to work if your earnings aren't getting you the respect to get vagina? Even with that trend, the overwhelming majority of men work.

A lot of the men leaving the workforce are men with McJobs. It's strange for white collar 25-54 year old men to leave the workforce. The only way that happens is if 50-54 year old man gets laid off and goes into early retirement.

Since women entered the workforce, men cannot be judged on what job they have or how much money they make. This is either for men or women, men and women cannot and should not ever compete, cos you cannot be manly if you attach your masculine value to making 100K a yr when even women are making that much.
A lot of white collar type workplaces like women in the workforce. They protect women from layoffs as much as possible. Additionally, it expands their labor pool and give them more options for employment, like going on a swipe app gives women more options too.
 

Jake_Gyllenhaal69

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I say this because the more men pull out of the ft white collar working environment the better it is gonna be for everyone. It is just too competitice and chaotic out there right now.

Since women entered the workforce, men cannot be judged on what job they have or how much money they make. This is either for men or women, men and women cannot and should not ever compete, cos you cannot be manly if you attach your masculine value to making 100K a yr when even women are making that much.
First, I entirely disagree with your whole philosophy, but my biggest issue is that you do realize that your situation is unique as a whole right? Not everyone has the privilege to live at home and sustainably get by with a Mcjob. People choose white collar jobs for the potential to earn more income and better job sustainably. I get it, Google just laid off a bunch of people, but these people literally have "GOOGLE" on their resumes so they will be fine.
 
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