Innovation. Think fast, move forward.

[Ronaldo7]

After establishing the oh-so-obvious affirmation regarding women being confusing specimens, it is up to the man to delve into innovation to bypass the contradictory phrases uttered by women.

Whether it is encountering a woman, who proclaims to have a boyfriend but explicitly tells you that she would be willing to go out with you, only to get cold feet after the initial interaction. All signs seem positive. She gave you her number, she constantly smiled and even stated that her having a boyfriend was not a hindrance.

What does one do here? Of course, one must evaluate actions first and foremost. However, one can point to those signs as the cornerstone of a positive rendezvous.

The aforementioned example illustrates the bothersome dilemma of being subjected to a game of Russian roulette with some women. This is not an apology to exemplify dejection. I like to understand the phenomena around me. I apply Socrates' elenctic method to those things, which i need to seek the truth from. I find myself in a standstill with women. As much as i try to undertake their reasoning, using Descartes as a philosophical guideline, i find myself with more redundant questions than answers.

And here i am. How do you innovate the incomprehensible? How do you innovate the unsaid? Do you base it on your interpretation or on the revolving changes around you?

I feel the need to understand my weaknesses. I must conceptualize my failures, so that i can recreate the blueprint to grasp success at the next opportunity.

I also realize that the connotation you give to occurrences will dictate the outcome of it. Depending on how one recovers from a failed attempt, one can conserve said prospect as a friend or acquaintance to further grow one's social proof.

Having said all of the above, i firmly believe and stand by Michael Jordan's quote. "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take".

I will keep attempting the shots, albeit with more profound knowledge and background of every attempt.

 

[fastlife]

How do you innovate the incomprehensible? How do you innovate the unsaid? Do you base it on your interpretation or on the revolving changes around you?

I feel the need to understand my weaknesses. I must conceptualize my failures, so that i can recreate the blueprint to grasp success at the next opportunity.

I also realize that the connotation you give to occurrences will dictate the outcome of it. Depending on how one recovers from a failed attempt, one can conserve said prospect as a friend or acquaintance to further grow one's social proof.

For me, I find it more productive to just accept that there are things beyond my control and let it go. A girl's emotional state when she's no longer in your presence is beyond your control. I don't waste time thinking about it. Sure, you might've done something to **** up or there are things you could've done better--but just as realistically she came under other external influences. Maybe she started a new birth control, or she got a huge project at her job, or her BF bought her roses that night after neglecting her for a couple weeks, etc.

Act boldly when the opportunities arise and let the chips fall where they may. The most effective thing I've found is to give the girl time. After ~4 weeks you get an emotional reset and at that point you just try again (if you want). Even then, she may or may not be receptive; but a ping every couple months will eventually hit her at a point where she's emotionally receptive. I've reopened girls 2 years post-flake and had smooth sailing; you never know, so act according to your own convenience.

 

[Ronaldo7]

For me, I find it more productive to just accept that there are things beyond my control and let it go. A girl's emotional state when she's no longer in your presence is beyond your control. I don't waste time thinking about it. Sure, you might've done something to **** up or there are things you could've done better--but just as realistically she came under other external influences. Maybe she started a new birth control, or she got a huge project at her job, or her BF bought her roses that night after neglecting her for a couple weeks, etc.

Act boldly when the opportunities arise and let the chips fall where they may. The most effective thing I've found is to give the girl time. After ~4 weeks you get an emotional reset and at that point you just try again (if you want). Even then, she may or may not be receptive; but a ping every couple months will eventually hit her at a point where she's emotionally receptive. I've reopened girls 2 years post-flake and had smooth sailing; you never know, so act according to your own convenience.

Greetings fastlife,

I appreciate your response. It made me think about things i had not considered. I didn't add that said woman was 40. I'm 21. I don't know if your assessment is the same, given the age factor to consider.

Your second paragraph really stuck. When i see an opportunity, i go in immediately. I've seen around the forum the 5 minute rule. It's now or never.

However, i'm surprised you mention to try again with the same woman. I thought this site proclaimed not to contact again after initial rejection or lack of follow-up interest.

 

[ubercat]

I think what @fastife was talking about is the variables off the situation. A 40 year old woman is hitting the wall so she's getting a lot of ego validation from you coming on to her as a 21 year old - the ego validation may have been enough for her. Also postwall a lot of women try and nail down a provider to make her life easier. And she knows a 21 year old won't be around for the long haul. And it depends on your emotional experience and maturity at 21 I know I was still a kid and had huge highs and lows all the time. Don't worry about anything. Most guys at your age r totally clueless about the nature of women. You are well ahead of the Curve.

Now the first rule of the game is to protect your heart and that's what the DJ Bible is designed to do. If you operate straight out of the Bible no girl is going to cut out your heart or scam you, end up trapped with a BPD *****, etc.

However because you were screening out low interest girls you will miss out on some opportunities because at the time the girl was not receptive to any man because of s*** going on in her life. To give a concrete example I went out with a cute little Southeast Asian woman did pretty well on the night but discovered she has 3 kids. She dropped off as soon as she realised I didn't want to be instant daddy. I dropped her a ping text a month later and we're meant to be going out next week.

So basically u can chase a tiny bit as long as you re chasing multiple girls. And personally how much I chase depends on the quality of the girl. If it's a good solid woman from social circle I may be a bit more gently persistent. If it's some random online b**** all she is going to get is the occasional message or text because online girls are normally huge attention *****s and you can spend a lot of time stroking their bloated egos and get nowhere.

Hope that clears up the contradiction a bit.

 

[fastlife]

Greetings fastlife,

I appreciate your response. It made me think about things i had not considered. I didn't add that said woman was 40. I'm 21. I don't know if your assessment is the same, given the age factor to consider.

@ubercat nailed the dynamics here. That's a low probability play--your best chance would've been to move way more quickly. As soon as she had some emotional space to process the situation and weigh rational considerations, you probably didn't stand a chance--you just don't have enough value to her for her to risk her relationship or rationalize away that age gap (no fault of your own, just where you are in life relative to her). But she might've acted on her attraction in that moment if you had kept momentum going--cougars are almost always now or never. Personally, I'd encourage you to date younger--cougars seem appealing when you're inexperienced and they offer a ego-buffer against rejection since they're so much older; but you'll never have the kind of ready access to girls in their physical prime as you do now .

However, i'm surprised you mention to try again with the same woman. I thought this site proclaimed not to contact again after initial rejection or lack of follow-up interest.

I touched on my disagreements with this concept in this thread. Men, logical, ego-invested creatures that we are, tend to seek a binary view of rejection: Rejection vs Acceptance. Low Interest vs High Interest. We always think a girl is rejecting us, when a lot of the time she might be rejecting the current situation. But situations change. People like to throw around the Brad Pitt analogy, but on her worst day--when her grandmother died and she's on her period and she has 3 papers due next Thursday and her face is breaking out and she's with her friends and doesn't want to look slvtty--a girl will flake on Brad Pitt. She might flake on Brad Pitt anyway if she perceives he's way higher value than she is (happens more often than you think--girls get nervous too); but if Brad Pitt hits her up in a month, she might think, OMG, he remembered me 4 months later; maybe he actually likes me.

Furthermore, a lot of guys play not to lose (NEXTING prematurely, etc.) instead of playing to win. Their egos get involved. But I never look at rejection as final. It's like, She's rejecting this situation, but what if I try this? What about this? On SNL's, I probably get rejected 5-10x over the course of the interaction from meeting her to getting her into bed. Rejection is good--it means I'm pushing the boundaries of the interaction at my own pace and making her react to me. And I'm also getting experience. If you bail the first time a girl rejects you, then you get a very limited amount of reps per each girl (you never get a very in-depth view of any one female). I look at each girl (especially after she 'rejects' me) as an opportunity to practice, to better myself, see what works, and get better for the next one.

What do you really have to lose by hitting a girl up a couple weeks later? Time? Sending a text takes 15 seconds. Your image? The epitome of desperate is worrying about what one 20 y/o girl who probably spends her nights binge watching Netflix and posting selfies thinks about you. The only thing that's really at stake is your ego. Now if you can't stop thinking about her or you haven't been able to bring yourself to talk to other girls, then you probably need to delete her number. But if your life's at a good place and you're feeling good about yourself and if you're 100% honest with yourself you still want this girl, then what do you really have to lose?

For me, it's been a high percentage play. I know because I've tried it. Some girls "really liked me" and were totally at a loss as to why I quit hitting them up (they were used to guys putting up with flakes); some girls admitted to stalking my social media and keeping up with my life for years. But all of them have either 1.) enthusiastically agreed to meet up or 2.) not responded. Most of the girls that don't respond initially have responded and agreed to meet up when I texted them a second time a couple months after that. It doesn't really affect me either way, but a hard 9 is a hard 9 (and besides when I lived in SoCal they don't exactly grow on trees); so if I think about a girl later, I'll text her to meet up and see what happens.

And even if a girl did reject me as a person (is that even possible?), I'm not even going to be the same person a month from now as I am today. I'll have grown and experienced new things and will have a different outlook than the guy she blew off (or vice versa) a month or three ago. Obviously, she has to buy into my frame when she reappears, but if I like her I'll give her that opportunity until it sticks or I forget about her (all of the girls I've re-invited back into my life after being exiled have come back very compliant and much more proactive about not letting me get away so easily this time). The only exception is if a girl disrespects me after I've emotionally invested in her (like an actual relationship)--in which case she's out forever.

You're 21; if you make good decisions, your value as a man will never be as low as it is right now. So get those extra reps. Don't be afraid to experiment with what works and what doesn't. If a girl is taking up too much of your time and your thoughts and not giving you a good return on that investment, next her; if you find your life revolving around a girl, next her; if a girl does something malicious toward you, next her; but if none of those things are the case, give her as many chances to reject you as you feel like giving her.

 

[Ronaldo7]

@ubercat nailed the dynamics here. That's a low probability play--your best chance would've been to move way more quickly. As soon as she had some emotional space to process the situation and weigh rational considerations, you probably didn't stand a chance--you just don't have enough value to her for her to risk her relationship or rationalize away that age gap (no fault of your own, just where you are in life relative to her). But she might've acted on her attraction in that moment if you had kept momentum going--cougars are almost always now or never. Personally, I'd encourage you to date younger--cougars seem appealing when you're inexperienced and they offer a ego-buffer against rejection since they're so much older; but you'll never have the kind of ready access to girls in their physical prime as you do now .

I acted when i had the chance. I stuck up conversation next to her on the treadmill. She asked me why i had let my beard grow to its current length as opposed to how i kept my facial hair before. This gave me an indication she had noticed me before. Like i mentioned before, the signs i received were positive. The cougar has kids i'm only 8 years older than, so it gave away she has responsibilities and trivialities i do not have. I feel confident i created interest and enough physical contact to ask for her number and transmit in an affirmative manner my intention to ask her out.

Fastlife, the problem i encounter is that my skillset appeals almost exclusively to older women. I am not adept at small talk and i start showing how bothersome it is having to ask banalities i have no interest in.

I only engage in intellectual conversations. I do welcome young women, but i find my approach is not as effective with them. What could i possibly talk about? I don't drink, smoke, or demonstrate interest towards insubstantial activities, which will not bring any meaning to my existence. These three characteristics define the things into which young women today engage in.

Older women, for the most part, are different. I've opened them by asking them about existentialism, Aristotle, Kant, World War I, the First and Second Sino-Japanese War, the fall of Constantinople, etc. A wide variety of anthropological, philosophical, political, psychological and sociological topics.

Having established this, i recognize opportunity. Carpe diem, my friend.

I touched on my disagreements with this concept in this thread. Men, logical, ego-invested creatures that we are, tend to seek a binary view of rejection: Rejection vs Acceptance. Low Interest vs High Interest. We always think a girl is rejecting us, when a lot of the time she might be rejecting the current situation. But situations change. People like to throw around the Brad Pitt analogy, but on her worst day--when her grandmother died and she's on her period and she has 3 papers due next Thursday and her face is breaking out and she's with her friends and doesn't want to look slvtty--a girl will flake on Brad Pitt. She might flake on Brad Pitt anyway if she perceives he's way higher value than she is (happens more often than you think--girls get nervous too); but if Brad Pitt hits her up in a month, she might think, OMG, he remembered me 4 months later; maybe he actually likes me.

Furthermore, a lot of guys play not to lose (NEXTING prematurely, etc.) instead of playing to win. Their egos get involved. But I never look at rejection as final. It's like, She's rejecting this situation, but what if I try this? What about this? On SNL's, I probably get rejected 5-10x over the course of the interaction from meeting her to getting her into bed. Rejection is good--it means I'm pushing the boundaries of the interaction at my own pace and making her react to me. And I'm also getting experience. If you bail the first time a girl rejects you, then you get a very limited amount of reps per each girl (you never get a very in-depth view of any one female). I look at each girl (especially after she 'rejects' me) as an opportunity to practice, to better myself, see what works, and get better for the next one.

Over the years i've been here, i've learned that rejection is part of it all. I can tell you as a fact that rejection doesn't bother me. However, i'm always willing to recognize weaknesses and deficiencies to present a formidable image next time.

What do you really have to lose by hitting a girl up a couple weeks later? Time? Sending a text takes 15 seconds. Your image? The epitome of desperate is worrying about what one 20 y/o girl who probably spends her nights binge watching Netflix and posting selfies thinks about you. The only thing that's really at stake is your ego. Now if you can't stop thinking about her or you haven't been able to bring yourself to talk to other girls, then you probably need to delete her number. But if your life's at a good place and you're feeling good about yourself and if you're 100% honest with yourself you still want this girl, then what do you really have to lose?

I had not thought of that, at least in said context. I will try this method to see what my results are.

For me, it's been a high percentage play. I know because I've tried it. Some girls "really liked me" and were totally at a loss as to why I quit hitting them up (they were used to guys putting up with flakes); some girls admitted to stalking my social media and keeping up with my life for years. But all of them have either 1.) enthusiastically agreed to meet up or 2.) not responded. Most of the girls that don't respond initially have responded and agreed to meet up when I texted them a second time a couple months after that. It doesn't really affect me either way, but a hard 9 is a hard 9 (and besides when I lived in SoCal they don't exactly grow on trees); so if I think about a girl later, I'll text her to meet up and see what happens.

And even if a girl did reject me as a person (is that even possible?), I'm not even going to be the same person a month from now as I am today. I'll have grown and experienced new things and will have a different outlook than the guy she blew off (or vice versa) a month or three ago. Obviously, she has to buy into my frame when she reappears, but if I like her I'll give her that opportunity until it sticks or I forget about her (all of the girls I've re-invited back into my life after being exiled have come back very compliant and much more proactive about not letting me get away so easily this time). The only exception is if a girl disrespects me after I've emotionally invested in her (like an actual relationship)--in which case she's out forever.

You're 21; if you make good decisions, your value as a man will never be as low as it is right now. So get those extra reps. Don't be afraid to experiment with what works and what doesn't. If a girl is taking up too much of your time and your thoughts and not giving you a good return on that investment, next her; if you find your life revolving around a girl, next her; if a girl does something malicious toward you, next her; but if none of those things are the case, give her as many chances to reject you as you feel like giving her.

I have options to choose from, so i'm not bothered. However, i need to constantly exercise a dynamic approach to prevent myself from stalling. As in the hunter is constantly out looking for his next prize kill.

One must be on the watch. The Gods will offer you chances. Know them & take them.

Also, i understand that if one is going to try, one must go all way. Otherwise, one shouldn't bother to start.

 

[ubercat]

Or as we say in NZ a legend in your own lunchbox ;-)