"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"

You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.

For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.

Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.

The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.

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"Independent", but submissive? Contradicting?

Eph

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I've probably been doing a bit too much mental masturbation lately, but a girl I'm talking to has kind of peaked my interest. A few weeks ago we got into a conversation about our dreams, and when I asked her what her "number one, I've got to accomplish this one" dream was, she told me: "to be a strong, independent woman like my parents want me to be".

I thought it was kind of strange that she wants to do it just because her parents want her to, but I also thought it might be a good thing she wants to live up to her parents expectations.

This girl is something of a rare case. She wants to be independent, but she is so submissive (at least towards me). Even more ironic is the fact that she does not see herself as lady-like, but she is honestly the most feminine woman I've met so far. Can someone really be both? It seems almost contradicting. She generally does whatever I tell her. She's Mexican so there's usually a bit of arguing, but in the end, she does what I say.

I wonder if our views on independence are different, because it seems like by "independent", she really just means she doesn't have to rely on someone else, and nothing (race, gender, etc) and no one, other than herself, defines her.
 

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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usernamedox11

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Eph said:
I've probably been doing a bit too much mental masturbation lately, but a girl I'm talking to has kind of peaked my interest. A few weeks ago we got into a conversation about our dreams, and when I asked her what her "number one, I've got to accomplish this one" dream was, she told me: "to be a strong, independent woman like my parents want me to be".

I thought it was kind of strange that she wants to do it just because her parents want her to, but I also thought it might be a good thing she wants to live up to her parents expectations.

This girl is something of a rare case. She wants to be independent, but she is so submissive (at least towards me). Even more ironic is the fact that she does not see herself as lady-like, but she is honestly the most feminine woman I've met so far. Can someone really be both? It seems almost contradicting. She generally does whatever I tell her. She's Mexican so there's usually a bit of arguing, but in the end, she does what I say.

I wonder if our views on independence are different, because it seems like by "independent", she really just means she doesn't have to rely on someone else, and nothing (race, gender, etc) and no one, other than herself, defines her.
Judge her by her actions, not her words. Girls just usually say what makes them feel good emotionally. They usually have no idea what they really want until it is given to them.
 

rugby11

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Working off her actions is a really good thing to look at.
 

El Payaso

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Yeah. Watch her actions instead.
 

Serenity

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Humble enough to know when to go along with others and independent enough to not need, sounds like what we're practicing here at sosuave. The paradoxical traits of a desirable person. You know it's possible to make an independent decision to be submissive? Sometimes that's wisest choice.

Still though, focus on what you want and stop mentally masturbating.
 

"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"

You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.

She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.

Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.

Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.

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MOTU

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My main plate says that kind of sh!t too, but then can't even decide whether to sit inside or outside when we go out to eat.

I wonder what you would call the old time American frontier women? They were strong, hard working. They could run the homestead while the man was away hunting or at market. But they also knew their roles and their place in the family, and strove to maintain their femininity. Seems like a good combo to me.
 

MtnMan

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MOTU said:
My main plate says that kind of sh!t too, but then can't even decide whether to sit inside or outside when we go out to eat.

I wonder what you would call the old time American frontier women? They were strong, hard working. They could run the homestead while the man was away hunting or at market. But they also knew their roles and their place in the family, and strove to maintain their femininity. Seems like a good combo to me.
that settles it, we need a time machine.
 

Serenity

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On further thought I would say having a goal of being strong and independent is good. Think of it like this: if she's dependent she will also be needy, and if she's very needy she will use you because she can't do it herself. In other words they will be high-maintenance, and instead of supporting they will just drag you down.

It's fully possible to be independent (self-supporting) without being bossy and controlling, the latter is what you have to watch out for. A relationship runs smoother if both have self-control, controlling each other is exhausting and there's a billion pitfalls in it leading to drama and conflict.
 

MOTU

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Grewd said:
On further thought I would say having a goal of being strong and independent is good. Think of it like this: if she's dependent she will also be needy, and if she's very needy she will use you because she can't do it herself. In other words they will be high-maintenance, and instead of supporting they will just drag you down.

It's fully possible to be independent (self-supporting) without being bossy and controlling, the latter is what you have to watch out for. A relationship runs smoother if both have self-control, controlling each other is exhausting and there's a billion pitfalls in it leading to drama and conflict.
^^^^ Well said. Repped.
 

hockeyfreak79

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After I read the thread the first thing I thought of was an ex Latina I dated! She was extremely out going, plenty of orbs but harmless for the most part. Just ride the wave bro....don't over think it.
 

"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"

You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.

She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.

Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.

Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.

Read more...

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