Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Improving results with women makes social life and male friendships fall in place rather than the reverse.

Jesse Pinkman

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Over the past couple of years, my game has started to improve and the results have started to roll in differently. Back in the day, I was relying on the apps alone to get a date with a 6 or 7 but by really going to the next level in game, I am getting women more in the 8 category in my life through some degree, even if as friends. Not at the level yet where I feel like I can pull a 9 or 10 but we will get there.

But I notice guys get told to do it in reverse and that is so wrong.

We tell men to improve their social lives and seek a brotherhood and all that and the women will come. I find that this is false. Most of the times, you just get drinking buddies. This is also why I think The Red Pill is a sham in some ways because it tells you that all men are your friends and women are the enemy but that's not true. Most of the times I find that dudes will turn on each other for the sake of p*ssy.

I used to do it this way too. In college, I was in a frat and I noticed that I had male "friends" and a social life which included interacted with meh looking girls.

Lately, I have noticed a shift.

By just having hot girls around me and interacting with me, it is like doors for social life open up left and right.

EVEN if I cold approach and other men see it.

I used to be too scared to talk to girls and relied on the apps. However, when I have gone up to hot girls and spoken to them at bars and clubs, even at times it hasn't gone anywhere, other dudes have noticed and acknowledged me for it. Some guys have tried to make small talk with me for it and I have been so focused on game itself that I drag them in with the guise of "hey man, I am gonna talk to those 3 girls right there, if you see it going well, come in and talk to the two I do not want".

Just from this, I have gained 3 good friends who have surprisingly been quite connected whether to nightlife or just wealthy.

Like dudes who would have never acknowledged me now want to be buddies and invite me to stuff because I am not afraid to talk to hot girls.

The thing is back when I wanted "powerful friends", I never got them. Now that I do not want quality male friends but just want to get better at game, I am getting better male friends as a result of not wanting them or a social life.

It's weird.
 

CornbreadFed

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Do you agree or disagree with this point?

Men should not fear the friend zone; instead, they should see it as an opportunity. Just because you're in the friend zone doesn't mean you have to be a little bvtch. Utilize it to connect with other women, and when other men see you with your attractive female friend, they'll likely be friendlier towards you. While you may hope for sex or a relationship, if that's not possible, make the most of the connections and opportunities it brings. And remember, the friend zone is different from the soft rejection zone, so don't confuse the two.
 

Stanley

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I very much agree with the sentiment that improving results with women is beneficial to a man's social life, but I don't agree with placing this over the needs for men to improve mentally, physically, seek out friendships and acquire assets which have a greater overall benefit in life and attracting people in general.

We tell men to improve their social lives and seek a brotherhood and all that and the women will come. I find that this is false. Most of the times, you just get drinking buddies. This is also why I think The Red Pill is a sham in some ways because it tells you that all men are your friends and women are the enemy but that's not true. Most of the times I find that dudes will turn on each other for the sake of p*ssy.

What Red Pill oracle said this? Who? How do we define what is and isn't Red pill? Should we take any and all claims in the MaNoSPhEre as gospel and treat each stance as representative of all views that are RP?

I don't disagree with the notion that having women in your social circle is more a boon than a bane, but I have NEVER seen anyone give the advice that in seeking brotherhood the woman will just come??? Anyone that is laying claim to that is genuinely retarded. You undergo new platonic relationships for the sake of forming new relationships, not to get *****. Sure, there may be positive side effects in doing so, but that's not the point or shouldn't be... And who is saying women are the enemy? They aren't.

I think the general advice to most guys is to prioritize themselves and to be comfortable in their own skin and personal success rather than chase tail and spin their wheels. I find that advice to be sound in that it urges men (and women) to be in a decent place in life above all else and to better set them up for success in other numerous facets of life (including relationships/Sex).

Men should still get experience with women and should not swear them off entirely for the sake of 'personal development', but much of that confidence comes from self actualizing. If your self esteem and worth is derived primarily from your ability to get laid that is a fragile foundation.
 
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AmsterdamAssassin

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Men should not fear the friend zone; instead, they should see it as an opportunity. Just because you're in the friend zone doesn't mean you have to be a little bvtch. Utilize it to connect with other women, and when other men see you with your attractive female friend, they'll likely be friendlier towards you. While you may hope for sex or a relationship, if that's not possible, make the most of the connections and opportunities it brings. And remember, the friend zone is different from the soft rejection zone, so don't confuse the two.
I fully agree -- make female friends, don't get 'friendzoned' -- and using female friends to boost your social circle and attraction with other women who will be positively biased to you for having women around you who are obviously comfortable in your presence.
 

Millard Fillmore

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Do you agree or disagree with this point?

Men should not fear the friend zone; instead, they should see it as an opportunity. Just because you're in the friend zone doesn't mean you have to be a little bvtch. Utilize it to connect with other women, and when other men see you with your attractive female friend, they'll likely be friendlier towards you. While you may hope for sex or a relationship, if that's not possible, make the most of the connections and opportunities it brings. And remember, the friend zone is different from the soft rejection zone, so don't confuse the two.
Agreed. "Friend zone" is IMO more like simping. Just accepting friendship in lieu of a sexual relationship is fine. Fear of it reeks of scarcity. Female friends have thrown women my way. Some friends eventually fukked me anyway. A lot of this stuff comes down to timing and availability.
 

Manure Spherian

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I have seven close friends, who I consider like family, one of whom is a woman, and three who I’ve known since eight to twelve years old. None of the formations of these friendships had anything to do with women.

I don’t base any interactions with other men off of anything to do with women. Zero.

I’ve never gotten friend zoned because I never sought out female friendship. If a woman was interested, I peaced out. The one close female friend I have came to be incidentally; we were college classmates and both loved the gym.
 
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SW15

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I think men are meant to be friends with other men more so than women.

I wouldn't recommend making female friends as a strategy for meeting women. The idea is that having female friends will allow a male to get introductions to other females. It's something that sounds nice in theory but often falls flat in practice.

It's worthwhile to be a decent human being (with good frame, not a pushover) to females in general. It's possible for a decent guy to have good interactions (if not friendships) with female co-workers (past & present), the girlfriends/wives of male friends, and maybe some other random females. This might lead to a social circle introduction to an attractive single female or it might not.

The best way to get introductions from females is to have a younger sister or similarly aged female cousin (preferably slightly younger) living in the same city. Older sisters are generally useless for introductions as their friends will generally be women who are older than the male is. Men generally prefer to date somewhat younger, which is why the younger sister is the most valuable.
 

BeExcellent

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Advice from the old lady:

Concur with Jesse. Every popular venue in nightlife is where the hot girls go. Hot girls = men who want to meet & impress hot girls = money flowing for drinks & bottle service.

Thats why hot women get comped on cover charges.

If you are cool with hot girls, you are cool. Its the best social proof there is. Jesse has something to offer that other guys want - he's cool around hot girls and willing to share his social proof.
 

MatureDJ

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Over the past couple of years, my game has started to improve and the results have started to roll in differently. Back in the day, I was relying on the apps alone to get a date with a 6 or 7 but by really going to the next level in game, I am getting women more in the 8 category in my life through some degree, even if as friends. Not at the level yet where I feel like I can pull a 9 or 10 but we will get there.

But I notice guys get told to do it in reverse and that is so wrong.

We tell men to improve their social lives and seek a brotherhood and all that and the women will come. I find that this is false. Most of the times, you just get drinking buddies. This is also why I think The Red Pill is a sham in some ways because it tells you that all men are your friends and women are the enemy but that's not true. Most of the times I find that dudes will turn on each other for the sake of p*ssy.

I used to do it this way too. In college, I was in a frat and I noticed that I had male "friends" and a social life which included interacted with meh looking girls.

Lately, I have noticed a shift.

By just having hot girls around me and interacting with me, it is like doors for social life open up left and right.

EVEN if I cold approach and other men see it.

I used to be too scared to talk to girls and relied on the apps. However, when I have gone up to hot girls and spoken to them at bars and clubs, even at times it hasn't gone anywhere, other dudes have noticed and acknowledged me for it. Some guys have tried to make small talk with me for it and I have been so focused on game itself that I drag them in with the guise of "hey man, I am gonna talk to those 3 girls right there, if you see it going well, come in and talk to the two I do not want".

Just from this, I have gained 3 good friends who have surprisingly been quite connected whether to nightlife or just wealthy.

Like dudes who would have never acknowledged me now want to be buddies and invite me to stuff because I am not afraid to talk to hot girls.

The thing is back when I wanted "powerful friends", I never got them. Now that I do not want quality male friends but just want to get better at game, I am getting better male friends as a result of not wanting them or a social life.

It's weird.
It sounds like you have become an Alpha wingman.
 

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MatureDJ

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Do you agree or disagree with this point?

Men should not fear the friend zone; instead, they should see it as an opportunity. Just because you're in the friend zone doesn't mean you have to be a little bvtch. Utilize it to connect with other women, and when other men see you with your attractive female friend, they'll likely be friendlier towards you. While you may hope for sex or a relationship, if that's not possible, make the most of the connections and opportunities it brings. And remember, the friend zone is different from the soft rejection zone, so don't confuse the two.
I think the key is to let it organically develop - and not get in a situation like the OP in a different thread where the chick just came out and said this will only be LJBF - and even to make her your wingwoman as you try to talk to other chicks. This accomplishes a few things - you get the wingwoman, and as well, as you start succeeding, her hampster gets her thinking, "wait, maybe this guy is more Alpha then I had originally thought".
 

BackInTheGame78

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You can do things in many different ways. Just because you chose to do it one way doesn't mean that other ways aren't viable, even if they don't work for you.

The major mistake people make is they think just because they could not make it work for them under their set of circumstances, it means nobody can make it work, or that because they were able to do something, that is the only way it can work.

Life is far more fluid and situations different for everyone depending on where they live, their backgrounds, their social networks, their natural skill sets, etc.

Basically the best you can say is this worked for me and this didn't. Anything more than that and you are just speculating to some degree or another.
 

anonymous12345

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I agree. I don't get any form of validation generally and I walk around with a constant sadness. One good date, such as my Saturday, by a girl that actually appreciate you, and one feels like a human being. And if you're functioning, as opposed to battling some kind of depression, one has surplus to attend work and social circles, so forth.

One can see on a guy if he's getting laid/got game. Then he got that almost provoking hyena baller smile.
 

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Jesse Pinkman

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Do you agree or disagree with this point?

Men should not fear the friend zone; instead, they should see it as an opportunity. Just because you're in the friend zone doesn't mean you have to be a little bvtch. Utilize it to connect with other women, and when other men see you with your attractive female friend, they'll likely be friendlier towards you. While you may hope for sex or a relationship, if that's not possible, make the most of the connections and opportunities it brings. And remember, the friend zone is different from the soft rejection zone, so don't confuse the two.
I kind of agree but the thing is, I notice that women are either into you or they drop you. Friendzones do not happen as much in adulthood.
 

CornbreadFed

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I kind of agree but the thing is, I notice that women are either into you or they drop you. Friendzones do not happen as much in adulthood.
Yeah, that's why guys should know the difference between an actual friendzone and her being too scared to say **** off. I think there has to be some attraction or mutual connection for a friendzone to actually happen.
 

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