"I'm a pretty ugly guy so probably won't like me"

[7onriverI f]

Yeah in my experience, every normal decent looking guy is getting seduced. It just depends on which guy is the center of attention at the moment.

This is why I don’t believe guys who tell me they did everything they could but still could not get any attention from women.

ive had those students in the past. The one thing they all have in common is that women ARE checking them out. They just dont realize it.

The main difference between a guy who gets laid and a guy who doesn’t is the guy who doesnt get laid rationalizes away female attention. He is convinced it’s hard and he feels like he needs to become enlightened. Meanwhile there’s 8 billion people in this world, stupid people in social circles are having sex left and right, and there’s a new strain of std coming out every year.

Yeah I've seen this. Girls look at me then look at another guy. then look back at me.
In social circles its the exact same. Whatever the girl finds amusing at the time she wants to have sex with.

Looking on facebook posts friends of mine girls and guys are commenting that everyone fuks each other in that town. And it's true.
Even in conservative circles it's happening if the guy wants it with girls who are suppose to be taken.

I've been in bars and girls have told me to come sit next to them and that they like me. I say something like lets get out of here and they say my husband is just over there. I find out the husband knows me quite well and she allready knows me but i don't know her. She was related to my flatmate. Nothing bad came of it and at a later date she invites me around to their house for a bbq and a drink and she asks if i have found a nice girl to be in a relationship with. I say what nice girls and she laughs. then she goes on about my flatmate and all the ugly women he gets but the latest girl is quite hot.

 

[crosscheck1331]

Yes, the person who says that has a low self opinion of himself. The problem is not that people are against him so much as he is against himself. I think I have a good grasp of what is considered attractive in the sense of a bull**** ideal that you see in the magazines and so on and while i'd say it's a high standard, I wouldn't classify most men i've encountered as truly ugly. When I think ugly I think of deformed or something to the point of you have to stop and do a double take. I have rarely encountered - most men fall under category of average and that is okay.

There was a time I used to wonder about this and even pitied myself because I thought I might not be good enough but then sometimes when I was out in public I saw guys that in my estimation weren't as handsome physically as I was. A lot of them had girls and some really good looking. I had to give up my belief on the looks thing and realized it is not so cut and dry. The truth is you just don't know until you ask because each girl has her own type.

 

[r4zorsharp]

There are 10,000 posts on this forum on mindset. Most guys have read all of them and they are still clueless.

I ask them the same questions.

Do you have hobbies that have women in it? 99% of the time, the answer is no.

They have no social ecosystem whatsoever that have built in women.

Your post tells me you started off worse than the average guy.

Like you had damaged self esteem or something. That’s your projection.

The average guy who has a social ecosystem with women in it can get laid easily.

You don’t need to rewire the average guy and give him pseudo inner game advice. You just need to tell him practiCal advice.

Thats why I said pseudo inner game advice is largely ineffective for the average dude who just needs a better social life.

It has its place. But not for 99% of the population who aren’t psychologically messed up.

I disagree that you need hobbies that "have women in it".. The hobbies are not for meeting women. The hobbies and passions are apart of your personality and things that define you and keep you busy/skillful and keep your life balanced. Infact, hobbies and passions are 100% about inner game. They add to your confidence, give you some activities to keep you from being bored/depressed or anxious.. Fill your schedule , keep you active, fit,

I also disagree that you need a "social ecosystem with women in it", although it can be really helpful from my own experience.. When I was younger I had 0 female friends and yet still got plenty of women.

 

[r4zorsharp]

Alright I’ll admit I didn’t read your post fully. My point is a social ecosystem gets you lays. You went against it.

And your argument is when you was younger and in high school (when you had the perfect social ecosystem) you never needed a social ecosystem.

Are you kidding me? This is who I am debating against? Lol. Alright i digress.

you literally proved my point.

@guru1000
@Spaz

Real actual experienced men,

Please give me a credible debate.

Those are my real rivals.

If they are no longer here, then I have no reason to be here either.

Honestly man you sound like you're battling yourself. I never tried to enter a debate with you. You tried to make a point that fell flat.

You said that in order to get laid you need a social ecosystem with women in it. I said you don't... You can have 0 female friends in your social circles and still get laid bud. Kinda common sense. I also never mentioned highschool.

"These are my real rivals" Rivals on an internet forum? wow. Not going to lie, you come off as the biggest loser saying statements like that. Do you even have any girls you're currently talking to / sleeping with? I'm not trying to assume anything but I feel like you really don't have anything going on .. you give off those vibes

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I'll admit I thought you were someone else. And I was kinda drunk. I thought you were that guy who called out the forums as looking like a bunch of dudes with neckbeards....and then proceeded to ask why he everything he does doesnt work with women, and then proceeded to ignore everyone's advise.

But anyway that's besides the point..

Your post is the reason why not everyone can be a teacher. I could have written your post and said "The fat guy has a vast social-ecosystem and has social status in his circles as a rapper. That's why he gets laid. Number 1 he has a dominant status, and number 2, he has an abundant social life that gives him access to girls."

The Biggie Smalls example is a example of how a not attractive in the face or body man can have an incredible pull due to his social image. I mean without that social image what woman in the world would say he's an attractive man...

For the second example of the tiny skinny guy, I could have said "He knows how to leverage social media to increase his sphere of influence and perceived social status.

Your post simply said "If a fat guy or skinny guy can get laid, so can you. Believe in yourself." No offense but that just sounds like psuedo psycho-babble that isn't applicable at all. It's one of those feel good posts that don't really get to the heart of the matter. The fact that those two guys are fat or tiny is irrelevant.

And now you are saying "You don't need a social-ecosystem to get laid" while giving two examples of guys who have a VAST social-ecosystem.

LOL. Not everyone is cut out to teach. And that's okay. My point didn't fall flat. It simply flew over your head.

A teacher is someone who can look at reality and break it down to a level that is so simplistic, that even a baby could understand.

Exactly. The teacher understands the foundation and the building blocks of whatever it is principle or structure that they are teaching.

The opposite is a guy who looks at reality and try to make it sound more complex than it needs to be. In reality, this guy is more likely to be confused himself.

You do know alot of "smart" appearing people ( to women ) give this overly complex description of things and women pass them off as smart, while they pass off the people who make it real simple and not a big deal as "stupid".

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Exactly. This is why I question people's credibility when they downplay social image, social status, social-ecosystem, social sphere of influence. Women are social creatures.

The best way to get laid is to have a dominant status in a large ecosystem where you have a sphere of influence that reaches everyone.

Everyone who has ever been in high school, college, or have gotten laid in socual circles or even a small community knows this very basic fact.

Sure, you can be handsome and not need all of this. But in this thread, we are talking about a fat guy and a tiny guy, so they NEED a large sphere of influence. It's certainly isn't their fatness or tinyness that's getting them laid.

And you're right about confused people pretending to be smart. It's ironic because you point out the simplicity of it all, and then they try to frame YOU as confused and lost. Lol. That's what the OP tried to do with me.

But that's okay. Because tend to look confused when they debate with me anyway. I welcome the challenge.

What I was saying is there are a lot of professors that don't know how to teach... Or other people making their jobs and things they are into sound overly complex. The smartest people know how to break these things down into easily digested pieces.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Yeah I get what your saying. I think there is really no debate in this thread.

It's a simple matter of every guy literally trying to deliver the same message.

But my point was it could be delivered in a way that is clear, concise, applicable, and simplistic. Instead of using pseudo psycho-babble of "believe in yourself", something the self improvement community is guilty of.

At the end of the day, nothing escapes the attraction hierarchy:

1. Dominance - Looks, social status, height, money, etc (Even internal dominance counts)
2. Sexual tension - masculine man + feminine woman = automatic sexual tension
3. Intrigue - Don't solve yourself to women
4. Credibility - You're not a total loser
5. Connection - Interesting that this is last, yet most guys try to create a connection first, which makes women's vaginas dry up.


If you have any form of dominance whatsoever, the very first thing you need to do is inject yourself into circles that are abundant with women, and then there will be automatic sexual tension between you and women. You don't have to DO anything. Sexual tension was created by nature. It wasn't created by you. Masculine dominant man + feminine women = automatic sexual tension. And from there it's a matter of being alone.

Anything beyond this simple roadmap makes it unnecessarily complex.

It's usually is "simple" even when someone says "it's complicated"...

 

[mrgoodstuff]

In my experience, people who make romance complicated fall into two categories:

1- People who started off very low - You've seen these people. Perhaps to them getting laid was like climbing mt. everest. So they project themselves into the picture and try to paint getting laid as a great achievement. But naturals get laid since they are 14 years old before they ever developed any mindsets/beliefs/ego. So getting laid is actually a lot simpler. It can even be broken down to testosterone + be around chicks. The guys who started off very low don't want to acknowledge this because they cannot relate to naturally having zero anxiety and self limiting beliefs around chicks.

2- Guys who are confused themselves but want to sound smart. They refute the simplicity but do not offer a counter-argument. Instead they go on a character attack. They keep saying they know what they are talking about but never presented any concrete attraction principles. In essence, they have no real argument, just a egoistical frame.

I think we've seen both of these types throughout this entire forum.

I have yet to meet someone who disagrees with me and was able to present a compelling argument. I mostly get emotional responses, character attacks, or the person simply stops responding.

But hey, I am al up for a good debate. My goal is to get to the bottom of the truth. To cut through confusion. My goal is not to pick apart people's beliefs.

Dude, I know a bunch of socially "acceptable" people who over complicate things to make themselves sound smarter than the actual smart people... I know they don't know when they make everything sound so complicated, and especially extra use of politics and name dropping. I'm as a person determining how much of the details that they understand of what they are discussing.

On the professors. It's no secret many of them are there for research. Those types don't even want to teach. So they don't care. They understand their little tidbit, they are getting their money and that's what they care about.

 

[7onriverI f]

Storm do you think if you went out to bars/clubs 7 days a week you could pull 100 different girls a year?

I believe I could do this just going out 3 nights a week BTW. I'd actually have to put a bit of effort in pulling rather than just enjoy the night and the girl ends up leaving which i tend to do. I wouldn't have to approach 100 girls a night either to do it. It's more like less than 5 approaches of girls in total a night. A lot of game is waiting a bit until the girl is staring you direct in the eyes and then you can go and approach her if she doesn't open you first.

And I ain't ripped either. I don't believe being super ripped makes a lot of difference.

 

[7onriverI f]

=


I used to be a PUA who went out to bars and clubs 3-4 nights a week. I used to get hundreds of phone numbers and makeouts, one night stands, etc. But then when I hit 30 my testosterone/hormones changed. I don't know what happened, but that masculine ego/pride of wanting to conquer women died. And it disappeared overnight.

At one point I thought seduction was the meaning of life and dedicated all my time and energy into it, which is why I have a lot of experience and can diagnose someone just from reading their posts. But now my mentality has changed into wanting a deeper and more meaningful purpose.

So I started to figure out what's the most efficient use of my time. And that's having hobbies and passions/social life where women exist. Also, I no longer live in California so I have less incentive to cold approach.

If I lived in LA, or NYC, I would cold approach 24/7. But I live in a city where it's all social circle. It depends on your city. Just like how online dating is great in LA because there are 8's, 9's, and 10's in real life, but online you get 6's and 7's.

If the top city's women are 6's and 7's like Philadelphia, then online, you are going to get nothing but 4's and 5's and fatties.

It's all about the social context. In some cities like LA or NYC, nobody stays in on friday nights. In a cold industrial city, nobody goes around cold approaching and act like they have no friends.

You have to know what type of environment you are in and adapt to it. Where I live now, it's all about having a vast social eco-system and getting invited to social gatherings and parties. In the bars/clubs people are generally clicky and do not open up to strangers.

The reason why I don't promote cold approaching as much as I do social game is because there are only a select few places in the world that's great for it.

I talk to girls outside of clubs and yes you can talk over many different days rather than short interactions in clubs that a lot don't go much further than a makeout on the dancefloor. Sometimes you pull them and their pussies smell like a swordfish but hey it's a funny story to tell. Most guys have one girlfriend and just talk to her and her friends/family. That might consist of maybe only a handful of girls. A example of this is my sister dating her boyfriend and he talks to only a handful of girls (probably count them on one hand) each week. After working 60 hours of work, playing a bit of GTA working out at home (perhaps if he went to a gym he would talk to more but he won't) and seeing his family and mine he doesn't have alot of time left. Working on his car as well takes up a lot of time.