If you are failing with women, here's why...

[biggoal]

Rush Limbaugh was an average looking guy, as a young adult, except for his weight problem, which blossomed into full blown morbid obesity. Now, he's old, fat, and bald. Pushing 70 isn't something he can help. I don't know if he could have done anything about his hairloss, other than possibly something similar to what President Trump did. Rush, definitely didn't need to become a lard-ass, though; that's 100% on him. If Rush had been in shape as a young man, i don't thing he would've been "ugly," though. His ugliness is self-inflicted, but as a radio guy, he didn't suffer much for it, and wasn't and isn't motivated to much about it. Essentially, I'd say his attitude is correct, in that he doesn't think too much about his appearance, and if he'd been sufficiently physically active, throughout his life, he wouldn't have needed to. He's just carried not giving a sh!t to a grotesque extreme, but, like Orson Wells, it's his problem, and it doesn't really seem to bother him.

President Trump, on the other hand, was 6'3", handsome, and very athletic, as a young man. He didn't maintain his athleticism, and went a little crazy with his hair. Now, of course, he's in his 70s and a bit too chunky, but he still isn't "ugly." That's a bit like Bill Maher looking at Turmp's yearbook photo from New York Military Academy and making fun of his ears. Should he have stayed in better shape and found something better to do with his hair, years ago? Sure, but "ugly"? C'mon.

Maybe I shouldn't say trump was ugly but certainly not really above average. Trump even has admitted in his life he doesn't workout much. Even Limbaugh when he was young wasnt that good looking. I see guys far better looking than them everyday.

Also interesting but trump's previous wives were not that hot looking. Nothing like Melania is. Why do you think trump didnt marry the hottest girls before Melania?

 

[AJ84]

Hell I wouldn't mind looking like a rat like Brad marchand if I could make 7 million a year.

President Trump for example is not attractive, rush Limbaugh certainly isnt and they got high confidence levels and top notch younger hb women. They might be ugly but due to their status and money they got tremendous confidence.

Do you think Rush Limbaugh cares about his ugly appearance? NO! he can laugh while he has multi millions and a far younger hb9 wife while most of us chumps have to hit the gym and use game and go for hb7 left overs.

If you're like Trump born into money for example and status you dont need looks if you're a guy to be confident. I mean trump oozes confidence and hes never been fit and athletic.

Now if your a fat ugly woman born into money you're screwed because guys go for looks.

One advantage about being a man is that at least women use other factors than just looks.

Even if you're a lardball but have money you can get a decent girl. Granted probably digging for some gold but it can be done.

I see a lot of ugly lardballs here in fl with decent looking women so obviously there is something other than looks that turns them on.

In the examples of men you provided. They all have wealth and fame. Do you think Brad would have that wife if he pumped gas for a living? Do you think most NHL players would have hot wives if they were average joes? Do you know how fast some pro-athletes burn through their earnings (several file for bankruptcy)? Do you know what the divorce rate is for pro athletes after they retire? Around 80%.
Do you think Trump would have Melania if he was an average joe? Why did Harvey Weinstein’s wife do a 180 and leave him after having his back when he was first accused of sexual assault? When it hurt her fashion business (that his money and connections helped start). There are rumours that Limbaugh’s wife is cheating on him with young athletes. These women who marry old unattractive men are most likely in it for the money and probably have hot young guys on the side to actually enjoy sex in between having to stomach sleeping with fat old men.

They are attracted to the money and the lifestyle and when that’s gone, so are they.
This is a tale as old as time. I really don’t think it’s anything to look up to. Unless, you want a gold digger wife who is using you, cheating on you, and only sticking around pretending to like you on the condition that you keep that wallet open.

There’s genuine attraction to the man, then there’s attraction to what she can get out of that man. Do you really want to be used by a woman who fakes liking you? Is the bar that low?

 

[worldknown]

@Atom Smasher how do you personally hold them accountable to their words and actions?

 

[Atom Smasher]

Either by immediately turning your back on them if in their presence, or directly verbally calling them out in an amused way. Or if it’s really bad it should be a disgusted way.

Both of these things send a massive message to women. Having a guy turn his back on them is an unmistakable message and every woman gets that.

Bottom line is that you should stay calm and detached but give off a message of disapproval that doesn’t involve outright anger (except in the rare instance where real anger is called for).

Essentially treat her just like you would some douchy guy put you in that “Is this guy for real?” mode. You would ignore him or tell him to stop talking nonsense.

 

[Atom Smasher]

A subtle disgusted look (as if you’re thinking what a bonehead she is for doing/saying that) is never missed by most women.

I wish I could demonstrate this stuff because I seem to be well calibrated with it. I can’t seem to verbalize it the way I would like.

 

[zekko]

President Trump for example is not attractive, rush Limbaugh certainly isnt and they got high confidence levels and top notch younger hb women. They might be ugly but due to their status and money they got tremendous confidence.

Those guys aren't quarterbacks though. Quarterback is partly a social position, especially when it's just kids on the playground. It's clearly the top spot, so the other kids have to be cool with you taking it. Which means you have to be popular. If you're insanely gifted, that might make up for it, but we're talking early ages here, so the skills aren't fully developed. Playing that position on the playground, or later on the school team, allows you to hone your craft. Point is you have to be popular to get to try the position in the first place.

Trump was born into a wealthy family, and Rush's father was a lawyer, so they came from successful families. That can be a source of confidence.

 

[worldknown]

Either by immediately turning your back on them if in their presence, or directly verbally calling them out in an amused way. Or if it’s really bad it should be a disgusted way.

Both of these things send a massive message to women. Having a guy turn his back on them is an unmistakable message and every woman gets that.

Bottom line is that you should stay calm and detached but give off a message of disapproval that doesn’t involve outright anger (except in the rare instance where real anger is called for).

Essentially treat her just like you would some douchy guy put you in that “Is this guy for real?” mode. You would ignore him or tell him to stop talking nonsense.

Doesn’t calling them out contradict some of the TRP stuff where if you call them out that shows emotional investment on your part?

Its funny because some people say withdraw attention and some say call out/confront. maybe it depends on the type of behavior?

also what about creating consequences for shvt tests in order to disincentive future tests?

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

It’s really about social calibration and cues. It is nuanced. The way I like to think of it is like this.

First you are best to be unimpressed by appearance. Full stop.

Most men cannot get past appearance at all so they stumble & fumble all over it. If they are ga-ga over a woman’s looks it is utterly obvious. It at once pedestalizes and objectifies the woman...which means she is now a desirable object rather than an imperfect human being.

Women want to be seen as people. That isn’t possible when a man fixates on her as a shiny object.

Obviously you want to be physically attracted to women you are interested in...but that’s more a baseline criteria, not the end all be all. Not the goal.

I date men who are physically attractive. That’s a baseline criteria for me. Once they meet that criteria I set it aside and have an interest in learning who they are beyond what they look like. Are they witty, smart, good natured, ambitious, a good conversationalist? Those are things you can observe early on. Are they self assured? How do they respond to a gentle ribbing or humor? See how that is qualification?

Good looking? Yes. Check. Set it aside.

Now on to the other criteria....

Sweet?
Feminine?
Intelligent?
Sense of Humor?
Modest?
Classy?
Sassy?
Respectful?

Whatever your individual list happens to be you get over and around the physical appearance thing and select (judge to use @Atom Smasher ‘s term) upon your deeper criteria.

You need to reach a place where ALL candidates for your attention meet the attractiveness threshold. You sort the wheat from the chaff afterwards. In doing this you stop getting hung up on looks. All your candidates meet your looks criteria so it’s an even starting point from there and you select (judge) on other parameters.

Women read this and know you are sizing them up as a total package rather than as a shiny object. It is that shift in perspective that puts them on notice that here is a man accustomed to beauty and unimpressed by beauty alone. Here is a man she must display other attributes to. He isn’t swept away just by her looks.

High quality people tend to understand this innately. Backbreaker used to talk about this all the time. Good looks get you in the door. That’s it. Once you’re in the door, everybody is good looking/confident/successful so what else sets you apart? And selection then occurs on individual criteria...

 

[Clamslammer]

Advice from the old lady:

It’s really about social calibration and cues. It is nuanced. The way I like to think of it is like this.

First you are best to be unimpressed by appearance. Full stop.

Most men cannot get past appearance at all so they stumble & fumble all over it. If they are ga-ga over a woman’s looks it is utterly obvious. It at once pedestalizes and objectifies the woman...which means she is now a desirable object rather than an imperfect human being.

Women want to be seen as people. That isn’t possible when a man fixates on her as a shiny object.

Obviously you want to be physically attracted to women you are interested in...but that’s more a baseline criteria, not the end all be all. Not the goal.

I date men who are physically attractive. That’s a baseline criteria for me. Once they meet that criteria I set it aside and have an interest in learning who they are beyond what they look like. Are they witty, smart, good natured, ambitious, a good conversationalist? Those are things you can observe early on. Are they self assured? How do they respond to a gentle ribbing or humor? See how that is qualification?

Good looking? Yes. Check. Set it aside.

Now on to the other criteria....

Sweet?
Feminine?
Intelligent?
Sense of Humor?
Modest?
Classy?
Sassy?
Respectful?

Whatever your individual list happens to be you get over and around the physical appearance thing and select (judge to use @Atom Smasher ‘s term) upon your deeper criteria.

You need to reach a place where ALL candidates for your attention meet the attractiveness threshold. You sort the wheat from the chaff afterwards. In doing this you stop getting hung up on looks. All your candidates meet your looks criteria so it’s an even starting point from there and you select (judge) on other parameters.

Women read this and know you are sizing them up as a total package rather than as a shiny object. It is that shift in perspective that puts them on notice that here is a man accustomed to beauty and unimpressed by beauty alone. Here is a man she must display other attributes to. He isn’t swept away just by her looks.

High quality people tend to understand this innately. Backbreaker used to talk about this all the time. Good looks get you in the door. That’s it. Once you’re in the door, everybody is good looking/confident/successful so what else sets you apart? And selection then occurs on individual criteria...

Listen to this lady, she gets it. The problem is @BeExcellent how many guys can do this...I personally do not know many. These guys are such in a scarce mindset that they are willing to give up their self-respect just to be with a girl he finds attractive because he may not get another chance in the future.

I have turned down so many girls just because they were not what I was looking for in regards to personality and character that these guys would think something was wrong with me because they were attractive to them. For me attraction includes everything not just her looks. Pretty girls are dime a dozen.

 

[biggoal]

In the examples of men you provided. They all have wealth and fame. Do you think Brad would have that wife if he pumped gas for a living? Do you think most NHL players would have hot wives if they were average joes? Do you know how fast some pro-athletes burn through their earnings (several file for bankruptcy)? Do you know what the divorce rate is for pro athletes after they retire? Around 80%.
Do you think Trump would have Melania if he was an average joe? Why did Harvey Weinstein’s wife do a 180 and leave him after having his back when he was first accused of sexual assault? When it hurt her fashion business (that his money and connections helped start). There are rumours that Limbaugh’s wife is cheating on him with young athletes. These women who marry old unattractive men are most likely in it for the money and probably have hot young guys on the side to actually enjoy sex in between having to stomach sleeping with fat old men.

They are attracted to the money and the lifestyle and when that’s gone, so are they.
This is a tale as old as time. I really don’t think it’s anything to look up to. Unless, you want a gold digger wife who is using you, cheating on you, and only sticking around pretending to like you on the condition that you keep that wallet open.

There’s genuine attraction to the man, then there’s attraction to what she can get out of that man. Do you really want to be used by a woman who fakes liking you? Is the bar that low?

A lot of guys on here would probably take those HB10 girls even if they cheat on the side, they'd still stick with them and bang them simply because it's an HB10 regardless if they're being cheated on. Hell Melania might do that too, but Trump probably doesn't care since he still gets a piece of her.

 

[zekko]

Trump was the pitcher on his HS baseball team, i believe.

Pitcher is a lot like quarterback in many ways, since it's the most important position - he touches the ball on every play. Anyway, as I said, Trump was born into a wealthy family, and having money can make you very popular in school. Maybe especially in school.

 

[biggoal]

Pitcher is a lot like quarterback in many ways, since it's the most important position - he touches the ball on every play. Anyway, as I said, Trump was born into a wealthy family, and having money can make you very popular in school. Maybe especially in school.

Except the schools he probably went to a lot of the other students were probably very wealthy as well so you don't stick out as much nearly like you would in a public school most of us went to for example.

Trump was surrounded by wealth is whole life though. It makes me wonder though does he even have much game skills at all since it's likely his money and family is what attracted women to him? I mean he doesn't have to use game like most men do in order to get dates because he's not in a typical setting where he has to use the traditional ways to pick up women in public for example. I mean, you don't see him going to clubs and having to approach dozens of women to get one date or read into PUA stuff like men on this forum do to improve their game. He doesn't have to have top game due to his money and status.

 

[AJ84]

A lot of guys on here would probably take those HB10 girls even if they cheat on the side, they'd still stick with them and bang them simply because it's an HB10 regardless if they're being cheated on. Hell Melania might do that too, but Trump probably doesn't care since he still gets a piece of her.

No, going by what I read here I can say with certainty that a lot of guys here would not take a HB10 even if she cheated. If this is you projecting what you would accept, aim higher if you have any respect for yourself. Don’t settler for a cheater just because she’s hot.

Some men put up with all sorts of crap because she’s hot, then get all bitter because of it and treat all women like sh*t because his d**k logic slapped him in the face. Don’t be that guy.

 

[biggoal]

No, going by what I read here I can say with certainty that a lot of guys here would not take a HB10 even if she cheated. If this is you projecting what you would accept, aim higher if you have any respect for yourself. Don’t settler for a cheater just because she’s hot.

Some men put up with all sorts of crap because she’s hot, then get all bitter because of it and treat all women like sh*t because his d**k logic slapped him in the face. Don’t be that guy.

I just see women as mainly objects these days anyway with little prospects of being marriage material. Just how the modern woman is. Men shouldn't commit to long term relationships and marriage. It's just not worth it.

I just dont put much stock in then or finding that golden unicorn. If she is hot go for it.

 

[biggoal]

This guy has been fighting an opposition party whose sitting President corrupted the intelligence agencies of several countries, to tar him as a "foreign spy," and used our own CIA to attempt to reverse a US election by persuading members of the Electoral College of the same nonsense, a DemonKKKrap party that wanted to impeach him before he was even sworn in, defectors from within the ranks of his own party and own cabinet, in fact a party that even tried to deprive him of a nomination he had already overwhelmingly won, a corrupted federal bureaucracy filled with subversive saboteurs, and a media establishment daily cheering for his demise.....he has prevailed against all of that and more, and you doubt he has game???

I'm talking in a dating sense. He's good at business and dealings. I mean I doubt he's had to hangout and clubs and other means in order to secure a date every weekend. he's not a typical guy. We should not be comparing ourselves to him when it comes to game and trying to get women because our circumstances and social circles are totally different than his type. Billionaires don't have to approach 100s of women or go to bars, clubs weekly and such to get high end HBs.

 

[biggoal]

Business management skills, negotiation skills, and marketing skills are all people skills, and I've NEVER known ANYONE with expert people skills who couldn't get a date. In fact, the guys who get laid the most in your company work in the marketing department; I 100% guaran-fvcking-tee it.

if you're working in a corporation then marketing is the best department to work in. Marketing typically has the most women in it.

When I was in college the marketing majors were mostly females including the marketing classes while the business majors as a whole were more male dominated.

I hate working for someone, I'm self employed but if i had to work in a large business I would try to work in the marketing department. The most women are in there. Work in accounting then it will be male dominated. Women are better with fluff like advertising and marketing. Takes less overall skill. Accounting takes a lot more skill and problem solving which men are better at.

 

[zekko]

Most men cannot get past appearance at all so they stumble & fumble all over it. If they are ga-ga over a woman’s looks it is utterly obvious. It at once pedestalizes and objectifies the woman...which means she is now a desirable object rather than an imperfect human being.

You are right of course, men should not stumble and fumble over anything. And you're right, women don't like it if you like them too much or if you are in awe of their beauty. And they are definitely imperfect human beings, and I don't blame them for not wanting the pressure of being put on a pedestal.

This is another reason why they are drawn to experienced men, because experienced men tend to be a bit jaded about female attractiveness. So the less affected they are by beauty, the more it suggests that such beauty is common in their lives. Which they are also drawn to. So I think a lot of what repulses them here is the fact that the nervous guy is inexperienced - and that they do not forgive (or at least are not attracted to it).

That said, this is one of those things about women that kind of irritates me. Men are wired to respond to the female form, and for all the complaints about women being "objectified", they are still willing to play this card to their advantage when it suits them. Not to mention the fact that they spend a great deal of time and money to make themselves look attractive.

Plus I'm not sure women can ever really understand how men see a beautiful woman. It isn't all sexual, necessarily. A man can appreciate a beautiful woman like he can appreciate a beautiful day or a blue sky or a rainy evening. Different women might suggest different things to our perceptions. One might remind us of an autumn breeze, while another might inspire unbridled lust. Men can experience a woman's beauty down to the depths of their souls. But unfortunately, in "the game", men have to suppress such feelings, and instead take up an attitude of indifference and IDGAF, because if a woman suspects you like her or the way she looks too much, she will reject you for it. Seems a bit of a shame.

2) Have a delusional sense of confidence.

This may well be one of my shortcomings, but I can't be delusional. It's just not in my DNA. I am well aware of my strengths and weaknesses, what I am good at, and what I am not. I know I can attract women, but I also know there will be guys who are better or worse at it than I am, or who look better or worse. I have a general idea from experience where I fit in. I suppose it would be nice to have a delusional sense of self confidence, or even to be a full blown narcissist (in some ways), but I just can't do it. Supposedly taking the red pill is about seeing reality as it is, except when it comes to confidence you're supposed to be delusional. Funny how that works.