I think I discovered not even my female friends really cared I was a "nice guy" or "good" ex boyfriend.

[OngBak]

Yes, our therapist called her out multiple times for her behavior and what she was doing to the relationship, her answer even was "I'm this way, and its his problem if he doesn't like it, I'm not gonna change." And stupid me of course accepted it.

I actually have a psych degree, so if she really said that, it's the kind of thing that would raise a flag for a therapist too, not just me. Couples therapy also has a pretty mixed track record in general a lot of therapists will or sometimes wont tell you it works best as damage control, not prevention. Personally, I wouldn't go that route. I'd focus on setting the frame early in the relationship instead: make communication a clear priority from the start, and show her concretely how it benefits both of you and ultimately the relationship. That kind of groundwork tends to matter a lot more than trying to fix things after they've already broken down.

 

[OngBak]

Your EX is the classical avoidant type which a lot of women are, they take, take take and never give back and once you set boundaries or hold them accountable, they flee

You learned your lesson and we all been there I know I have, but one thing I want you to internalize is this. NEVER PUT A WOMAN IN A POSTION WHERE YOU DOING EVERYTHING AND YOU DON'T HAVE A FAIL SAFE. You were paying all the bills but didn't have enough for yourself I'm pretty sure once she left your money got better but never do this unless the woman is your wife or child

Thats not an avoidant though, it gets pretty often confused with avoidant but in reality it isn't.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I've never been a fan of couples counseling, I don't know of any instances where it's been effective. I don't know, some guys here are advocates of counseling, so I guess YMMV.

I went to couples counseling once. It was after, as I've mentioned before, I had accumulated a significant amount of credit card debt without my partner at the time knowing about it. The way the counselor explained it to us was that the original foundation of the relationship had already been built. The purpose of counseling wasn't to restore that original foundation, but to build a new one on top of it: one based on new boundaries, routines, trust, responsibilities, and expectations.

The problem is that both parties have to want to rebuild the relationship. However, the person who was wronged and had their heart broken will often have a long list of new terms, conditions, and concessions. Meanwhile, the person who did the wrongdoing will have to give up a great deal of their own freedom, comfort, or habits just to begin the healing process.

I've only done superficial research on couples therapy, but one of the main studies I found indicated that 78% of couples therapy cases (roughly three out of four) are initiated by women. Likewise, around 70% of divorces are initiated by women. Those statistics alone don't establish who benefits more from counseling or who is at fault in any given relationship, but they can help explain why Rollo's Rule 7 states, "Time and effort are always better spent pursuing fresh prospects than trying to fix a failed relationship." If rebuilding the relationship requires starting over from scratch, it becomes easier to argue that men, in particular, may be better off not attempting to rebuild it at all, but instead investing that same time and effort into a new relationship.

 

[Divorced w 3]

The story of how my seven-year relationship with my ex-girlfriend completely fell apart, and how I ended up in the bathroom, almost throwing up from heartbreak, deserves a post of its own. So I'll stick to the point here.

Last week I started lurking around this forum because someone recommended The Book of Pook as a resource for improving with women. I picked it up, and while reading it I came across references to SoSuave. To my surprise, I was amazed that such an old site was still alive. Besides Pook, I also have Models, The 3% Man, Weapons of Mass Seduction, and Alabaster Girl on my reading list.

When my ex left me, I was in one of the most vulnerable periods of my life. About a year earlier, I had moved to another state, leaving behind my job, friends, and family because I wanted to challenge myself and start over. I invited my girlfriend to come with me, waited for her, and due to circumstances outside her control she arrived without a job.

That meant I covered everything for almost six months. Money was tight, and I had very little flexibility. On top of that, whenever anything went wrong (my car, my pets, my apartment, or any other problem) I had nobody to rely on. There was no support system. I just had to suck it up and deal with it.

After months of couples counseling, I finally decided I'd had enough of the constant bull****. I sat down with her to have an honest conversation about what was bothering me.

She ran.

To this day, I have no idea where she went because I immediately went no contact. The only thing I got was a text saying she was taking one of my cats and that by the time I got home, all of her belongings would be gone.

Without any support network, I felt completely stranded. I wanted to die. I seriously contemplated suicide several times, and I even called 911 more than once because I needed psychological help.

Eventually I remembered two female colleagues from a previous job. I invited them out—not because I was looking to date, but because I desperately needed someone to talk to. One of them was also pretty cute, and I knew she'd been somewhat attracted to me before.

The first time we met, I cried a lot. I told them I couldn't understand how she could leave me when I'd been a good provider, made her feel safe, and did everything I could to avoid making her jealous. I'm a reasonably attractive guy (not a model, but decent-looking) and whenever female coworkers invited me out, I'd invite my girlfriend too so she'd never feel excluded or insecure.

I supported her financially when she was unemployed. When her mother died, I was the rock she leaned on. I cooked for her, stayed faithful, and tried to solve every problem I could. I couldn't wrap my head around how someone I'd invested so much in could simply walk away.

The second time we met, I was more grounded. I still got emotional, but not nearly as much. Both of them told me I was basically the kind of guy women say they want: dependable, stable, and safe.

The part that made me laugh, though, was that both of them were stuck in objectively unhealthy relationships. One had been cheated on, and the other was convinced her boyfriend was cheating but couldn't bring herself to leave him. Meanwhile, I was the complete opposite of those guys, and I was the one who got dumped.

After those two outings, I stopped reaching out. I decided I needed to own my situation and rebuild my life instead of looking for emotional support from other people.

From my experience, women will often tell you they want one thing while ending up emotionally attached to something very different. Whether that's because I came across as desperate, needy, or emotionally overwhelming, I don't know. They never checked in to ask if I was okay, and I never heard from them unless I initiated. Looking back, desperation and neediness are probably deeply unattractive traits, regardless of gender.

Today I'm in a much better place. I go out to bars by myself, I work out consistently, I'm active on dating apps, and I'm putting real effort into taking care of myself.

The biggest lesson I've taken away from all of this is that neediness, desperation, constantly seeking approval, always playing it safe, and failing to stand your ground are incredibly unattractive behaviors. Whether that was the reason my relationship failed is impossible to know, but those traits certainly didn't help me afterward.

As for those two coworkers, maybe we were never really friends to begin with. Interestingly, now that I've gotten my life back together and no longer need emotional support, they seem much more interested in reaching out and asking me to hang out.

Thanks for having me in.

I’d be curious to know what sort of frame you held that kept this together for seven years. Were the two of you in a mutually dependent (codependent) state of living? What was the posture, who ultimately led the relationship? Something broke when you put your boundary down so I am guessing she was leading, but just curious.