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Alvafe

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It feels too soon to start talking about getting lawyers involved but it may be something I have to do down the road.
that is the thing last I read somewhere you should be in divorce process before leaving the house for best chances
 

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Exil

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You gotta take care of yourself before you can be healthy to take care of others.

I've been in a 15 year relationship and have gone through similar things as you. Although divorce isn't on the tables as you said yet, you should make smart strategic decisions and planning just in case. I know some women definitely plan out strategic exit strategies to rape you if you aren't careful.

Ideally both of you still have some feelings for each other to have lasted this long. Just try to do your best to communicate in a style she's comfortable with and see if you can come to some sort of truce to be able to move on with life. Remind her that working out some sort of truce is in the best interest of your kids, because really, they would be the ultimate victims in all of this. Whether you are together under the same roof in an open relationship, separated under the same roof until the kids go to school, or whatever else you two can agree to, try to maintain some sort of friendship at the least and civility. I often see separated or divorced parents that were able to maintain some kind of friendship fare better afterwards. I don't know what the divorce laws are in the UK but the US definitely favors women here. It is all too easy to blow up and make an enemy and have her take everything you got. Just play it smart and think things through and see how both of you can navigate this so you guys can move forward in a favorable way to both of you. Maybe seek out some marriage counseling if you haven't already.
Thanks for the message, actually makes a lot of sense. I didn't want the breakup and if I'm completely honest, still would rather work it out if at all possible but I just can't see a way back now. I love being a husband and a dad. People may laugh at that but I'm a good provider and a good dad. Not looking for recognition but I stayed even after all this came out because she asked me not to leave and a part of me still wanted to see if there was a way to fix things. It's too hard to be around her at the moment as I feel like I'm not making smart decisions on what's best for everyone and so I left to put some distance between us and I didn't tell her exactly where I was going because she'll keep coming over and bringing the kids when I really need the distance at the moment.
 

corrector

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That's the thing though, the textiing someone else happened before lockdown and I didn't leave because of everything that was going on and didn't want to make a drastic decision and just walk away, knowing that there could be a lockdown and I wouldn't be able to be there for the kids and I suppose to try and see if there was a way to fix the damage in the relationship.
Yes, but you said you neglected her emotionally because you were drained from work. That has nothing to do with the lockdown.

Exil said:
As far as possessive goes, if anything I'm not possessive enough as I never ask her where she is, never stalk her online activities, don't check her phone, I never tell her what to wear, who she can talk to, I never tell her she can't go out or who to be friends with. One of her old male friends came over for a tea back in early January and I have absolutely no problem with it because I know him and his girlfriend and have spent countless hours with them over the years.
You think if you were more possessive, and you did some of the things you mentioned, and cared about this more visibly then that would have given her a chance to amend her ways because she's seeing what she does really matters to you?

Exil said:
I do feel I neglected her a bit and maybe you're right about the job but mortgages don't pay themselves and lifestyles can't be afforded if o change to something else. That's one of the things that annoys me the most, if I didn't do what I do, she wouldn't have the house she loves, the car she loves, the material things she loves but still it wasn't enough. I feel unappreciated and I'm not saying she should be on her hands and knees every time I walk through the door, just show a little appreciation for the life she is able to have because of the work I do.
It's about balance. Maybe while you are right, it's not balanced and if you have to end up walking out, then everything you've worked for to keep her happy is in vain or wiped out at the end of the day.

What do you expect her to do for appreciation? Maybe there is an ingredient missing in your recipe (i.e. you cant make bread without yeast, you can't make cake without sugar, etc...) and that is you have to be emotionally available to her and not be too drained from work, or your recipe comes out wrong.

Have you thought about drinking some strong coffee, or taking caffine-pills, on the way home from work so you have some more energy?
 

Exil

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that is the thing last I read somewhere you should be in divorce process before leaving the house for best chances
But I'm not 100% sure I want to get divorced yet. I know what you're saying and why you're saying it as I know I need to protect myself and you never know how someone will react when they're got a divorce lawyer in their ear telling them to clean their ex out but I don't think we need to go down that road yet.
 

Exil

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Yes, but you said you neglected her emotionally because you were drained from work. That has nothing to do with the lockdown.



You think if you were more possessive, and you did some of the things you mentioned, and cared about this more visibly then that would have given her a chance to amend her ways because she's seeing what she does really matters to you?



It's about balance. Maybe while you are right, it's not balanced and if you have to end up walking out, then everything you've worked for to keep her happy is in vain or wiped out at the end of the day.

What do you expect her to do for appreciation? Maybe there is an ingredient missing in your recipe (i.e. you cant make bread without yeast, you can't make cake without sugar, etc...) and that is you have to be emotionally available to her and not be too drained from work, or your recipe comes out wrong.

Have you thought about drinking some strong coffee, or taking caffine-pills, on the way home from work so you have some more energy?
Our relationship isn't perfect, who's is? But yeah, I was emotionally distant from her towards the end, mainly reactive to how she was behaving towards me. I asked her several times if we were ok, tried to talk to her about it and see what was going on and she just told me she was fine which obviously I know means she isn't fine and there's something but she doesn't know how to talk to me about it. I didn't for a second think it would be someone else in the equation. I know I could have done more and maybe I just got tired of pandering to her all the time when she makes little to no effort with me. This literally happened between the start and end of January, so suddenly and things were good around Christmas and New year. Maybe you're right about seeming like I didn't care. Maybe I should have been a bit more present in her social circle and been a bit more forceful with things but I've always been quite chilled in that area and never given her reason to want to seek other men. I value myself quite highly (quite narcissistic I know) but I don't like control or having control of her probably because of how I saw my own dad controlled by my mother as a kid.
 
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Exil

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Our relationship isn't perfect, who's is? But yeah, I was emotionally distant from her towards the end, mainly reactive to how she was behaving towards me. I asked her several times if we were ok, tried to talk to her about it and see what was going on and she just told me she was fine which obviously I know means she isn't fine and there's something but she doesn't know how to talk to me about it. I didn't for a second think it would be someone else in the equation. I know I could have done more and maybe I just got tired of pandering to her all the time when she makes little to no effort with me. This literally happened between the start and end of January, so suddenly and things were good around Christmas and New year. Maybe you're right about seeming like I didn't care. Maybe I should have been a bit more present in her social circle and been a bit more forceful with things but I've always been quite chilled in that area and never given her reason to want to seek other men. I value myself quite highly (quite narcissistic I know) but I don't like control or having control of her probably because of how I saw my own dad controlled by my mother as a kid.
And I stopped going to the gym after work to get home quicker and spend more time with her and the kids. It's not so much a lack of energy physically, it's more mental. The mundane lack of conversation I get from her is the problem for me.

This is how our evening's usually go;

I walk in, kiss her and the kids, ask them how school was, ask her how her day was. Kids reply "boring" which is what kids say about school. She just turns her nose up, never anything exciting to say. I tell her about my day and a new client I've just closed or a new product we're designing and she looks at me blankly with no clue what I'm talking about, which again I get because it's quite complicated to grasp of you don't work in my industry. I'm not expecting her to be super interested in my work, just to have something to add to the conversation other than "got my nails done".
 

Blacksheep

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Would you have left in my position or have I made a huge mistake?
Hey man,

If you feel you should leave, then you made the right choice. It seems that you were no happy with this woman, so why stay? Cut off those ideas that society tell us about abandom our childs, etc. You're not doing anything wrong... just keep visiting if you want and give them money to feed and other stuffs.

We don't have to force ourselves to stay on situations that make us feeling miserable.

I'm living something similar, but rather leaving a woman, I'm leaving my parents and their home they allowed me to live. I'm all by myself and also left my dad's company job.

I couldn't accept that hell I was living... I was dying mentally and phisically.

So, if you feel that anguish living with that woman, you made it right. And it can be way better to your childs than they growing up watching you and your wife unhappy and fighting all the time. Believe me, I grow up in that environment... It's not good.

Just take your time, organize your mind and go for what you want!

Wish you all the best!
 

Lookatu

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Based on what I read, I have a couple more questions for you.

How long have you been married?

Have you tried communicating and letting her know that you sometimes feel under-appreciated?

Have you told her that outside of working hard and trying to provide for the family, you sometimes feel tired?

Has she done anything in the marriage to try to accomodate you? It sounds like maybe you're the head and the shoulders(wife) isn't propping your head up enough. If that makes sense...

As for your usual evenings, have you made an effort to at least once a week or something go out away from the kids or even just take a simple walk yourselves and just be able to talk about things in a more calm settin:. Whether it's something mundane like what happened here or there or actual deep conversations?

I don't know your life so just trying to get some more insight. We can all bench psycho-analyze this all we want but ultimately, none of us has led your life and there is only so much you can describe in these forums.
 

Exil

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Hey man,

If you feel you should leave, then you made the right choice. It seems that you were no happy with this woman, so why stay? Cut off those ideas that society tell us about abandom our childs, etc. You're not doing anything wrong... just keep visiting if you want and give them money to feed and other stuffs.

We don't have to force ourselves to stay on situations that make us feeling miserable.

I'm living something similar, but rather leaving a woman, I'm leaving my parents and their home they allowed me to live. I'm all by myself and also left my dad's company job.

I couldn't accept that hell I was living... I was dying mentally and phisically.

So, if you feel that anguish living with that woman, you made it right. And it can be way better to your childs than they growing up watching you and your wife unhappy and fighting all the time. Believe me, I grow up in that environment... It's not good.

Just take your time, organize your mind and go for what you want!

Wish you all the best!
Thanks for the advice bro. If I'm honest, we don't fight. We don't argue, we don't really disagree. I just want her to actually make some effort with me and to show love and appreciation for the lift she's able to live with me. She's just a naturally unhappy person.
 

corrector

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Our relationship isn't perfect, who's is?
So there is room for improvement. Progress is always the goal, not perfection.

Exil said:
But yeah, I was emotionally distant from her towards the end, mainly reactive to how she was behaving towards me.
You said it was because you were drained out from work. So that is no longer the explanation and this is reactive because she was "emotionally cheating" on you? How did you find out she was cheating on your if you don't check her texts or smartphone? What level was the "emotional cheating"...what were they texting about?

Exil said:
I asked her several times if we were ok, tried to talk to her about it and see what was going on and she just told me she was fine which obviously I know means she isn't fine and there's something but she doesn't know how to talk to me about it. I didn't for a second think it would be someone else in the equation.
Are you sure that the "emotional cheating" is just a few texts exchanged? It sounds a bit deeper than this.

But yeah, I get what you are saying because you feel insecure within the relationship and there is nothing more maddening to me then feeling lonely in a relationship. That's 10 times worst than being single. You can't really talk to her about it without losing your frame as a man unless she is a bit more open and that is frustrating.

What you are experiencing is called "relationship insecurity". That's what this is. You want to open to her and she's not opening to you.

Exil said:
I know I could have done more and maybe I just got tired of pandering to her all the time when she makes little to no effort with me. This literally happened between the start and end of January, so suddenly and things were good around Christmas and New year. Maybe you're right about seeming like I didn't care. Maybe I should have been a bit more present in her social circle and been a bit more forceful with things but I've always been quite chilled in that area and never given her reason to want to seek other men. I value myself quite highly (quite narcissistic I know) but I don't like control or having control of her probably because of how I saw my own dad controlled by my mother as a kid.
Like you are doing all of the initiating, but when you see her light up to another guy and she's doing the initiating emotionally or she's real and present with someone else then it makes your blood boil.
 
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Exil

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Based on what I read, I have a couple more questions for you.

How long have you been married?

Have you tried communicating and letting her know that you sometimes feel under-appreciated?

Have you told her that outside of working hard and trying to provide for the family, you sometimes feel tired?

Has she done anything in the marriage to try to accomodate you? It sounds like maybe you're the head and the shoulders(wife) isn't propping your head up enough. If that makes sense...

As for your usual evenings, have you made an effort to at least once a week or something go out away from the kids or even just take a simple walk yourselves and just be able to talk about things in a more calm settin:. Whether it's something mundane like what happened here or there or actual deep conversations?

I don't know your life so just trying to get some more insight. We can all bench psycho-analyze this all we want but ultimately, none of us has led your life and there is only so much you can describe in these forums.
Been married for 5 years

Tried communicating with her, she stonewalls and does literally anything she can to avoid the conversation (on her phone, looking around the room, never adding to it) and it just turns into a lecture which is what I try to avoid.

Told her several times about how tired I am when I come home. I just feel like I'm an inconvenience to her when I'm indoors. Like she'd rather I just went out and worked and didn't come home so she could just do whatever she wants without me around.

She does from time to time try to be accomodating but it's all too temporary. It was like this before we got married and I really thought things would settle down after I gave her the ring but if anything it got worse. She knows she's my only option because I've always (out of respect) not been making her feel insecure that I'm out with other women etc.

We do go out probably 2 or 3 times a month without the kids even if it's just a night away somewhere or to grab something to eat.

I appreciate your opinion man.
 

Exil

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So there is room for improvement. Progress is always the goal, not perfection.



You said it was because you were drained out from work. So that is no longer the explanation and this is reactive because she was "emotionally cheating" on you? How did you find out she was cheating on your if you don't check her texts or smartphone? What level was the "emotional cheating"...what were they texting about?



Are you sure that the "emotional cheating" is just a few texts exchanged? It sounds a bit deeper than this.

But yeah, I get what you are saying because you feel insecure within the relationship and there is nothing more maddening to me then feeling lonely in a relationship. That's 10 times worst than being single. You can't really talk to her about it without losing your frame as a man unless she is a bit more open and that is frustrating.

What you are experiencing is called "relationship insecurity". That's what this is. You want to open to her and she's not opening to you.



Like you are doing all of the initiating, but when you see her light up to another guy and she's doing the initiating emotionally or she's real and present with someone else then it makes your blood boil.
There's always room for improvement. I'm not perfect and never will be but I just got tired of making effort that wasn't reciprocated.

As for finding out, I called her bluff. I started noticing the phone hiding, taking it with her everywhere she went and noticed the time she was still on her phone when mine was down, on charge and I was going to sleep. I asked a couple of times and she told me it was her friend Stacy and would actually tell me about what they were talking about, really elaborated on the details. She's a good liar by the way, very good at fabrication on the spot. She went out at the end of February and she came home drunk and crashed out next to me. The following morning I made out I had found something out and basically just went for it and she kopped to it. She showed me the texts (the ones she hadn't deleted, I'm not stupid) and told me everything. She'd been talking to him for about a month, some random older guy she met on a Facebook group, complete opposite of me. It started out as harmless friendly conversation but turned to them planning to meet and as far as I know it didn't go past planning but I have no idea if she actually did. Wouldn't surprise me either way.

I think it is relationship insecurity. I used to be really secure and almost untouchable. I think this has dented my ego too if I'm honest that she could do this when I've passed up so many opportunities to do the same. It's hard not to take or personally because it feels personal. I can understand that she felt neglected and unwanted but that's where I'd expect her to talk to me about it rather than go 180. It's a very frustrating relationship and had we not had kids I don't know that it would have lasted as long as it has.

And yeah, it does make my blood boil, all the times I watched her smile at her phone thinking it was just her friend or mum texting her when several of those were very likely him.
 

Lookatu

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Tried communicating with her, she stonewalls and does literally anything she can to avoid the conversation (on her phone, looking around the room, never adding to it) and it just turns into a lecture which is what I try to avoid.

Told her several times about how tired I am when I come home. I just feel like I'm an inconvenience to her when I'm indoors. Like she'd rather I just went out and worked and didn't come home so she could just do whatever she wants without me around.

She does from time to time try to be accomodating but it's all too temporary. It was like this before we got married and I really thought things would settle down after I gave her the ring but if anything it got worse. She knows she's my only option because I've always (out of respect) not been making her feel insecure that I'm out with other women etc.

We do go out probably 2 or 3 times a month without the kids even if it's just a night away somewhere or to grab something to eat.

I appreciate your opinion man.
I hate to say it but it sounds like the selfish narcisstic tendencies has rubbed of on her and you gave her way too much leash way early on in the relationship which she's used to now. It also sounds like you may love/like her more than she does you. I also think her lack of communication and just hiding her feelings is what's causing a lot of this too.

Thanks for the advice bro. If I'm honest, we don't fight. We don't argue, we don't really disagree. I just want her to actually make some effort with me and to show love and appreciation for the lift she's able to live with me. She's just a naturally unhappy person.
There's a saying: Just because two people are good to each other, they aren't necessarily right for each other.
Just because you guys get along for the most part and don't argue doesn't mean she's the right person for you. Obviously you guys are married and have kids so that makes things a bit more difficult to split up.
Maybe she might feel different in communicating or opening up if another party was there, like a marriage counselor? If you haven't tried it, it's worth a shot to try to get her to agree to talk it out in that kind of setting with a moderator. I know some women are very afraid of any potential conflict, especially being one on one with a guy. Seen it many times.
 

Exil

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I hate to say it but it sounds like the selfish narcisstic tendencies has rubbed of on her and you gave her way too much leash way early on in the relationship which she's used to now. It also sounds like you may love/like her more than she does you. I also think her lack of communication and just hiding her feelings is what's causing a lot of this too.


There's a saying: Just because two people are good to each other, they aren't necessarily right for each other.
Just because you guys get along for the most part and don't argue doesn't mean she's the right person for you. Obviously you guys are married and have kids so that makes things a bit more difficult to split up.
Maybe she might feel different in communicating or opening up if another party was there, like a marriage counselor? If you haven't tried it, it's worth a shot to try to get her to agree to talk it out in that kind of setting with a moderator. I know some women are very afraid of any potential conflict, especially being one on one with a guy. Seen it many times.
I've actually believed for a long time that she's undiagnosed NPD, I seem to attract them.

It's one of those situations I normally give advice to my friends and family about but never take my own. I think I've always known deep down that we weren't supposed to be together but because we had the kids, we got married. Because we were married, we got the mortgage. Because we have a marriage, kids and a mortgage, we automatically had to try and make it work.
 

corrector

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There's always room for improvement. I'm not perfect and never will be but I just got tired of making effort that wasn't reciprocated.

As for finding out, I called her bluff. I started noticing the phone hiding, taking it with her everywhere she went and noticed the time she was still on her phone when mine was down, on charge and I was going to sleep. I asked a couple of times and she told me it was her friend Stacy and would actually tell me about what they were talking about, really elaborated on the details. She's a good liar by the way, very good at fabrication on the spot. She went out at the end of February and she came home drunk and crashed out next to me. The following morning I made out I had found something out and basically just went for it and she kopped to it. She showed me the texts (the ones she hadn't deleted, I'm not stupid) and told me everything. She'd been talking to him for about a month, some random older guy she met on a Facebook group, complete opposite of me. It started out as harmless friendly conversation but turned to them planning to meet and as far as I know it didn't go past planning but I have no idea if she actually did. Wouldn't surprise me either way.

I think it is relationship insecurity. I used to be really secure and almost untouchable. I think this has dented my ego too if I'm honest that she could do this when I've passed up so many opportunities to do the same. It's hard not to take or personally because it feels personal. I can understand that she felt neglected and unwanted but that's where I'd expect her to talk to me about it rather than go 180. It's a very frustrating relationship and had we not had kids I don't know that it would have lasted as long as it has.

And yeah, it does make my blood boil, all the times I watched her smile at her phone thinking it was just her friend or mum texting her when several of those were very likely him.
Your blood will boil further if you find that after you break-up or walked out with her she has happily moved on with her life and is meeting other people, including that old man. The reality is that a woman's SMV is way higher than ours so it's easy for her to meet someone on facebook, social media or some dating sites. These type of women move on very fast and I'm not sure you'll like to know that she's seeing other guys or does not want you back down the road. You must have stayed with her long because she's really pretty or hot and if you worked hard to please her as you say, then she must really be good. It sounds like you did all the pursuing and "won"her by the sounds of it. Is that how it came together? It just seems to me that she controls the frame.

No matter what woman you deal with, that you really like, you are never going to be 100% secure, because of social media and online dating and fact she can meet anyone at the drop of a hat. You don't want another man to benefit from your spousal and child support? You can't let these things get to you. Part of being a strong man is that you don't show that you are jealous of her or that these type of issues bother you. If you are secure with her love and your commitment to her, then who is going to compete against you as there is only one you? You should try to get back with her and make this right before she really starts meeting this guy or other people.

No matter what woman you deal with, they could all be dealing with other guys. If you can't handle her dealing with one old guy that's not really competition, how are you going to handle other women who have high SMVs and regularly deal with other guys?
 
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corrector

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I've actually believed for a long time that she's undiagnosed NPD, I seem to attract them.

It's one of those situations I normally give advice to my friends and family about but never take my own. I think I've always known deep down that we weren't supposed to be together but because we had the kids, we got married. Because we were married, we got the mortgage. Because we have a marriage, kids and a mortgage, we automatically had to try and make it work.
She's hot, right? Like a hb9 or 10 something? Logic goes out the window if she's pretty enough. There's no way you would have had kids or married her if she was lower than hb8.
 

Exil

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Your blood will boil further if you find that after you break-up or walked out with her she has happily moved on with her life and is meeting other people, including that old man. The reality is that a woman's SMV is way higher than ours so it's easy for her to meet someone on facebook, social media or some dating sites. These type of women move on very fast and I'm not sure you'll like to know that she's seeing other guys or does not want you back down the road. You must have stayed with her long because she's really pretty or hot and if you worked hard to please her as you say, then she must really be good. It sounds like you did all the pursuing and "won"her by the sounds of it. Is that how it came together? It just seems to me that she controls the frame.

No matter what woman you deal with, that you really like, you are never going to be 100% secure, because of social media and online dating and fact she can meet anyone at the drop of a hat. You don't want another man to benefit from your spousal and child support? You can't let these things get to you. Part of being a strong man is that you don't show that you are jealous of her or that these type of issues bother you. If you are secure with her love and your commitment to her, then who is going to compete against you as there is only one you? You should try to get back with her and make this right before she really starts meeting this guy or other people.

No matter what woman you deal with, they could all be dealing with other guys. If you can't handle her dealing with one old guy that's not really competition, how are you going to handle other women who have high SMVs and regularly deal with other guys?
I can deal with the orbiters liking and commenting on pictures on Facebook/Instagram and I can deal with competition. I've seen off plenty of other guys over the years who popped up in her sphere of influence but I'm just getting tired of the game. Growing up I always thought the game was supposed to stop when you had marriage, kids and a home if you're high value. Maybe I'm not as high value as I thought I was or maybe she's just sh1t testing me for a reaction. She got one and I failed the test. I never thought she was hyperganous before but all women are and I guess it was just suppressed until recently. She loves the attention and maybe I wasn't giving her enough and as sad as it is, I know women are like children in that respect.

Yeah she's an 8/9 easy but this is where it's confusing. She always talks about herself like she's a 4 or 5 but then does this sh1t which makes me think she doesn't really believe she's a 4/5. She very often says I'm the "hotter one" in the relationship but women don't care about looks, only what you give them, be it money, comfortable lifestyle, attention.
 

RickTheToad

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I packed my things and left. I told her very little about where I was going and what I was doing and just said I need space and time to figure out what I want. Take care of the kids and I'll contact you if and when I want to talk.
That's abandonment. How does one abandon their kids? Did you not want them?
 

corrector

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I can deal with the orbiters liking and commenting on pictures on Facebook/Instagram and I can deal with competition. I've seen off plenty of other guys over the years who popped up in her sphere of influence but I'm just getting tired of the game. Growing up I always thought the game was supposed to stop when you had marriage, kids and a home if you're high value.
That sounds rather blue-pill. In fact the logic of your whole thread, when it comes to providing sounds blue-pill, yet you know about game. What it sounds like you hit the right attraction buttons and applied the red-pill with her, and this would work really well, especially 10 years ago when that stuff was still popular. But at the core, you didn't change on the inside, or deal with the inner-game issues, and that's the problem, even in Neil Strauss book, "The Game". You begin to lose the girl because you put on an act that's not really you, and you are really a provider/blue-pill at the core, and then the girl loses attraction to you over time.

Exil said:
Maybe I'm not as high value as I thought I was or maybe she's just sh1t testing me for a reaction. She got one and I failed the test. I never thought she was hyperganous before but all women are and I guess it was just suppressed until recently. She loves the attention and maybe I wasn't giving her enough and as sad as it is, I know women are like children in that respect.
No guy, unless you are like a Chad and are rich (not middle-class rich, is really going to have a higher-value than a woman, so there is always a potential for any woman to eventually want to trade-up unless she has strong religious values and intends to honour the marriage. Remember, a woman just has to show up and she is assigned a very high value because there are lots of thirsty guys after her already that are inflating her ego and can get a "grass is greener on the other side" conflict. That is why I feel that any issue with this woman will simply be transferred to another woman unless you deal with the "inner game" issues.


Exil said:
Yeah she's an 8/9 easy but this is where it's confusing. She always talks about herself like she's a 4 or 5 but then does this sh1t which makes me think she doesn't really believe she's a 4/5. She very often says I'm the "hotter one" in the relationship but women don't care about looks, only what you give them, be it money, comfortable lifestyle, attention.
Just be honest with yourself and expectations. You are with her because she is hot. It's not easy to replace a hot girl like that so its easier to work it out with her then to find another loyal hb8/9. Even hb5-6 are hyper-inflated.
 

Exil

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That's abandonment. How does one abandon their kids? Did you not want them?
Of course I did and I would have took them with me if I could but I can't. I couldn't work and provide for my kids as a single dad, it just wouldn't work. I didn't want to leave my kids and is a lot of the reason I've stayed so long.
 
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